Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[mehmed beg]

How notty of Ukraine to refuse to become the part of Russia, how dare they?
Ah , Iraq? Whatever USA is , they never had the plans to make Iraq part of America. They just made it part of Iran, which is the centerpiece of so called Axis of Resistance. Since both Mr Gary and me , like the Palestinians, maybe we should show a bit of gratitude to Uncle Sam.
Holomodor happened in Ukraine, didn't it , if other so called 3rd world countries have the right to remember their colonial past and justifiably remember it , so doesn't Ukraine.
There are funny things here though, they say that by coming to Ukraine they want keep NATO away, why not start with Litvania? After all how far is Lithuania from St Petersburg? And Lithuanians killed 100s of thousands of Russians after 1917.
Bandara? Vlasov? Etc
The same story like before and like every time.
And merly expressing the right of Russia to expand? Well Dutch then can say the same thing , which I am sure they do , from time to time.

 

[contricusc]

I mean eventually, the world will have to accept Russia's sovereignty over that land. Because there's simply not much they can do to win back those lands (unless they want to start a nuclear war).

That land could be conquered back without any nuclear war. Ukraine recaptured swathes of land (including Kherson, the capital city of a now “Russian” province) without triggering any nuclear war. If last year’s counteroffensive had been more successful, it could have recovered even more land.

So it is possible to recover those lands, and I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years time exactly that will happen.

Russia has tried multiple times in the past to expand by peace, but seems like with no success. War is merely the last option after all of the peace option are exhausted with no tangible return. Pretty normal.

Resorting to war is an acknowledgment of the failure of their policies and inability to project soft power.

Back when Yanukovych was the president of Ukraine, Russia tried to emulate the EU playbook by offering Ukraine a huge economic deal to accelerate Ukraine into the Union state, but unfortunately, In return, the Maidan happened, we don't know who's to blame in Maidan exactly, but the idea that Russia just invade out of nowhere without first exercising the peaceful option is ridiculous.

Maidan happened simply because the EU is much better at the geopolitical game than Putin. They managed to steal Ukraine from his sphere of influence without firing a bullet.

So this war is partly the Ukrainian fault for not accepting the Russian proposal for more integration which forced Russia to heavy-heartedly embrace the violent option. Simply put Russia has put forward the proposal for an enlarged Russia without war, but Ukraine chooses the enlarged Russia with war instead.

No, this war is 100% Russia’s fault. They should have given up when the Ukrainians refused to be part of the “Russian World”. Your theory is like saying a rape victim is the only one at fault for the rape happening, because she refused to do it with the aggressor, so he had no other choice but to rape.

opting for war when all cards for peace is not a Russian only phenomenon, the West used this option in Iraq when their hope to topple Saddam by popular revolt failed, they proceed to enlarge their influence by invading it.

And that was the West’s biggest geopolitical blunder of the last few decades. Not only did they lose credibility in the world stage, but they also lost Iraq to Iran’s sphere of influence. A total failure despite winning the war.

So never say that Russia has not given Ukraine any option. They did, but unfortunately, that peaceful option to enlarge Russia didn't move forward as expected.

They gave Ukraine a bad option, and the Ukrainians refused. The Russians should have given up, but instead they proceeded with this bloody unprovoked war that hopefully will mark the beginning of the end of their evil empire.

 

[Ryder]

That land could be conquered back without any nuclear war. Ukraine recaptured swathes of land (including Kherson, the capital city of a now “Russian” province) without triggering any nuclear war. If last year’s counteroffensive had been more successful, it could have recovered even more land.

So it is possible to recover those lands, and I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years time exactly that will happen.



Resorting to war is an acknowledgment of the failure of their policies and inability to project soft power.



Maidan happened simply because the EU is much better at the geopolitical game than Putin. They managed to steal Ukraine from his sphere of influence without firing a bullet.



No, this war is 100% Russia’s fault. They should have given up when the Ukrainians refused to be part of the “Russian World”. Your theory is like saying a rape victim is the only one at fault for the rape happening, because she refused to do it with the aggressor, so he had no other choice but to rape.



And that was the West’s biggest geopolitical blunder of the last few decades. Not only did they lose credibility in the world stage, but they also lost Iraq to Iran’s sphere of influence. A total failure despite winning the war.



They gave Ukraine a bad option, and the Ukrainians refused. The Russians should have given up, but instead they proceeded with this bloody unprovoked war that hopefully will mark the beginning of the end of their evil empire.

If Russia lost Ukraine it also signalled that they will lose Belarus in the future.

Eastern Slavs both Russians, Ukrainians and Belarussians are bounded by the same Eastern Slavic ancestors. Its no surprise that Russia wants to keep both in their sphere.

Lukashenko wont be ruling Belarus forever and he knows it too.

Ever since the Soviet Union collapsed the Russians actually tried to take back their standing in the world.

Hence why they took back Chechnya because if Russia did not take it back it would have emboldened Independance movements in the country. In 2008 they waged war against Georgia and took both South Ossetia and Abkhazia effectively turning them into puppet states.

Russia also went into Syria and waged a bloody war against rebels trying to prop up the Assad regime.

Then in 2014 the Russians took Crimea without a shot being fired.

All of this largely got ignored by the West in general until the Russians invaded Ukraine in 2022 starting. Europeans in particular now realised the Russian threat cant be ignored just like they ignored Chechnya and Georgia.

Usa played a role in Dudayev getting killed by getting his coordinates and giving it to the Russians.

Dudayev got killed and Chechnya got overun by Extreme Jihadists and the Kadirov criminal gang ruling the country like a feudal dynasty where Putin does not even take on the man himself.

 

[mehmed beg]

Putin maybe had different options, who knows?
But all in all , this is completely unpredictable matter. I myself haven't any predictions.
Most definitely, both Russians and Ukrainians are completely duped. Particularly Ukrainians if you ask me.
Tomorrow, if Trump comes to power, who is to say that he won't serve Ukrainians on the platter to the Russians?

 

[Gary]

That land could be conquered back without any nuclear war. Ukraine recaptured swathes of land (including Kherson, the capital city of a now “Russian” province) without triggering any nuclear war. If last year’s counteroffensive had been more successful, it could have recovered even more land.

You're right, in war there's always the possibility of out of thought events to happen.

Although to be fair here, the chance to recover those lost lands are getting slimmer by the day.

For every land Russia seize now, it will be extremely difficult to win back later.

Resorting to war is an acknowledgment of the failure of their policies and inability to project soft power.



Maidan happened simply because the EU is much better at the geopolitical game than Putin. They managed to steal Ukraine from his sphere of influence without firing a bullet.

I'm well aware of the EU potential vis a vis that of Russia.

Which is why the invasion option seems (like it or not) the most sound option. Especially because not in 100 years can Russia compete with the EU when it comes to providing the benefits.

So we know that openly competing with EU with economic package is impossible, while the strategic value of Ukraine for Russia remains the same.

This led to only one option. The violent option, unfortunately

No, this war is 100% Russia’s fault. They should have given up when the Ukrainians refused to be part of the “Russian World”. Your theory is like saying a rape victim is the only one at fault for the rape happening, because she refused to do it with the aggressor, so he had no other choice but to rape.

Prof John Marsheimer has a very interesting point when it comes to great powers. They WILL want to expand and expand until they have the absolute advantage compared to their rivals, and even then, once achieved they won't stop.

The EU will behave exactly like Russia if the it is Russia the party that is bathed in gold.

I recommend watching Prof John Marsheimer talk in the endgame series, where he talks about Ukraine starting from 01:55

 

[Gary]

On a side note, the best option right now is the cessation of hostilities.

The condition of which :

1. Russia withdraws all of its troops from Ukraine.
2. Zelensky hand over power to a Russian proposed candidate and pro Russia government.

Win win

 

[Ecderha]

- Everyone forgets about Navalny assassination
- Everyone forgets about Putin's fraudulent 'election.'
- Takes focus off of ruzzian atrocities in Ukraine.
- Makes ISIS a 'common enemy,' placing ruzzia and the West on the same side

putin's domestic message in ruzzia: Ukraine did it. 'We must mobilize!' Tighten the screws on civil society and consolidate power.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772263568978616547

 

[contricusc]

On a side note, the best option right now is the cessation of hostilities.

The condition of which :

1. Russia withdraws all of its troops from Ukraine.
2. Zelensky hand over power to a Russian proposed candidate and pro Russia government.

Win win

Ukrainians will never accept a Russian puppet as their head of state anymore, after what the Russians did to them.

Russia needs to understand that Ukraine is gone forever. The maximum that they can keep is the Russian dominated Eastern part, if they manage to win the war, but there is a big “if” when it comes to that.

Europe is slowly getting prepared for a long term war, and once the EU goes into the “whatever it takes” mode, it will be extremely hard to stop.

The EU institutions (not counting help by individual EU countries) help for Ukraine is already bigger than the whole US help. Even if Trump wins and the US stops supporting Ukraine, the EU can sustain the war effort alone until it bankrupts Russia.

 

[Ecderha]

Can you recognize Who is the reported?
How low can person fall!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772309242055106994

It is the same thing which happend back then and It is the same thing happend in ruzzia 2 days ago.
KGB= now called FSB doing the same thing. It is about more meat. putin need more meat

 

[Woland]

I'm implying their sacrifice to the motherland, of course they will not be able to enjoy the main prize. That's why it's called sacrifice to begin with, you don't get to enjoy the fruit of your struggle, but it's worth it because there are certainly something that is bigger than you as an individual.

Imagine all the richness of Ukraine, their agricultural fields, their oil, their mines etc, all work hand in hand so that Russians could have a better quality of life.

So I find it funny that Western journalists kept mentioning Russia's inflated casualties as if it end with that. Have they ever sit and think for a moment that the reported 700K casualties that Putin invested now pay dividend with Russia getting larger with the almost complete control of the Donbass, where the main heavy industry of Ukraine is located. Has they ever for once try to think? Anyone?

More absurd statements and Russia fanboyism.

Russia already has more land and resources than any country on our planet. And yet, Russia is #134 in life expectancy, #68 in GDP per capita and 22.6% of Russians don't have indoor plumbing. Russia's GDP is smaller than Italy's; it's actually close to South Korea's, despite Russia having over 170x more land.

Moreover, Donbas, the region that Russia seized which you mentioned as being Ukraine's main heavy industry, had a higher GDP before Russia invaded than 7 years after. In 2013 it was €20 billion, in 2021 it was €10 billion.

 

[contricusc]

Moreover, Donbas, the region that Russia seized which you mentioned as being Ukraine's main heavy industry, had a higher GDP before Russia invaded than 7 years after. In 2013 it was €20 billion, in 2021 it was €10 billion.

Russia destroys everything it touches. Apparently, there is no amount of natural resources that would make Russians afford indoor plumbing.

 

[Soldier30]

The crew of the Russian anti-tank grenade launcher SPG-9M "Spear" spoke about their combat work in Ukraine. The effective firing range of the SPG-9 grenade launcher against armored targets is up to 1300 meters, against infantry with fragmentation ammunition - up to 4.5 km.

 

[Ryder]

- Everyone forgets about Navalny assassination
- Everyone forgets about Putin's fraudulent 'election.'
- Takes focus off of ruzzian atrocities in Ukraine.
- Makes ISIS a 'common enemy,' placing ruzzia and the West on the same side

putin's domestic message in ruzzia: Ukraine did it. 'We must mobilize!' Tighten the screws on civil society and consolidate power.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772263568978616547

Russians have always been brutal and ruthless.

They pretty did some awful stuff to Ukrainian pows.

 

[Ecderha]

Two years ago about same day!
A lot more than four Terrorist marched in to Bucha and killed 419 civilians.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772006256770683343

 

[Rescondut]

Can you recognize Who is the reported?
How low can person fall!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772309242055106994

It is the same thing which happend back then and It is the same thing happend in ruzzia 2 days ago.
KGB= now called FSB doing the same thing. It is about more meat. putin need more meat

There is a video of him from 2008 where he claims that a war with Ukraine would be the greatest crime a russian president could commit : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/r...condemns-Russia-Ukraine-war-2008-footage.html

 

[GoatsMilk]

- Everyone forgets about Navalny assassination
- Everyone forgets about Putin's fraudulent 'election.'
- Takes focus off of ruzzian atrocities in Ukraine.
- Makes ISIS a 'common enemy,' placing ruzzia and the West on the same side

putin's domestic message in ruzzia: Ukraine did it. 'We must mobilize!' Tighten the screws on civil society and consolidate power.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772263568978616547

and have you noticed how ISIS always makes a showing every time Turkey intends to move into Northern Syria? Now Isis is yet again promoted in the western consience, if Turkey moves on PKK, the media will run with stories about Turks helping isis to slaughter the kurds.

 

[Gary]

Ukrainians will never accept a Russian puppet as their head of state anymore, after what the Russians did to them.

Russia needs to understand that Ukraine is gone forever. The maximum that they can keep is the Russian dominated Eastern part, if they manage to win the war, but there is a big “if” when it comes to that.

Europe is slowly getting prepared for a long term war, and once the EU goes into the “whatever it takes” mode, it will be extremely hard to stop.

The EU institutions (not counting help by individual EU countries) help for Ukraine is already bigger than the whole US help. Even if Trump wins and the US stops supporting Ukraine, the EU can sustain the war effort alone until it bankrupts Russia.

I never doubt the willingness of certain Western countries to solve problem by throwing money. They did this in Afghanistan before to no avail.

 

[Gary]

More absurd statements and Russia fanboyism.

Russia already has more land and resources than any country on our planet. And yet, Russia is #134 in life expectancy, #68 in GDP per capita and 22.6% of Russians don't have indoor plumbing. Russia's GDP is smaller than Italy's; it's actually close to South Korea's, despite Russia having over 170x more land.

Moreover, Donbas, the region that Russia seized which you mentioned as being Ukraine's main heavy industry, had a higher GDP before Russia invaded than 7 years after. In 2013 it was €20 billion, in 2021 it was €10 billion.

Actually when I mentioned resources, it's only the secondary goal. Security, not prosperity is the aim of the SMO. Simply put, Russia is not and never will be secure without first securing Ukraine.

Those mentions about Ukraine's riches is for the most part to justify the very heavy losses Russia has incurred. So if Russia stops now, it will be for nothing, but if they continue forward, not only will Ukraine have to pay a heavy war reparations to Russia, most likely the potentials of Ukraine could be used to prop up the Russian economy and industries as well.

 

[Relic]

I never doubt the willingness of certain Western countries to solve problem by throwing money. They did this in Afghanistan before to no avail.

The obvious difference is that the Afghan population had no interest in running their own country. Western tax payer money was wasted for years trying to remake that country in the image of a Western democracy, but the people there had no real interest in that outcome.

Ukraine is a totally different story. The overwhelming majority of the population view themselves as Westerners and there is a deep desire in most of the country to join the EU and NATO. It's also a strategically important country to the West, unlike Afghanistan, which possessed little in the way of strategic importance.

The most important point is that we don't have to fight Ukraine's war for them. They're willing to pay a heavy toll for freedom from Russian oppression, all we have to do is spend miniscule percentages of our annual budgets to ensure that they have what they need to survive as a nation. They're highly motivated, have proven plenty capable of war fighting despite Russia possessing significant military advantages and they're aligning their defense industry with those of the West.

Afghanistan and Ukraine are not remotely comparable, IMO.

 

[Gary]

The obvious difference is that the Afghan population had no interest in running their own country. Western tax payer money was wasted for years trying to remake that country in the image of a Western democracy, but the people there had no real interest in that outcome.

Ukraine is a totally different story. The overwhelming majority of the population view themselves as Westerners and there is a deep desire in most of the country to join the EU and NATO. It's also a strategically important country to the West, unlike Afghanistan, which possessed little in the way of strategic importance.

The most important point is that we don't have to fight Ukraine's war for them. They're willing to pay a heavy toll for freedom from Russian oppression, all we have to do is spend miniscule percentages of our annual budgets to ensure that they have what they need to survive as a nation. They're highly motivated, have proven plenty capable of war fighting despite Russia possessing significant military advantages and they're aligning their defense industry with those of the West.

Afghanistan and Ukraine are not remotely comparable, IMO.

The Ukrainians proven to be uninterested in fighting, the mobilization drive has been miniscule and they rarely want to talk about it because it is politically unpopular (who TF wants to die on the Donbass).

That's why you keep seeing footage of Ukrainian men getting snatched on broad daylight by recruitment officers as well as footage of men running towards the border with Poland or Romania.

Ukrainians want the good life of the West and to do so they don't actually need to fight. They just need a few connections and money to get the hell out of the country and apply for refugee status. They don't actually need an independent Ukraine to be part of the West, the easier part of simply living as refugees (which are facilitated by the West) provided an easier alternative.

Those money the West pumped into Ukraine often ended up in the pocket of some corrupt officials, we saw a rise of billionaires in the country despite a the Ukrainian economy is shattered.

Corruption will led to multiple problem that ended with total capitulation, just like the Western allies of Afghanistan and the Republic of Viet Nam.