Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

UkroTurk

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NATO plans to create a military mission in Ukraine, but Hungary will not participate in it, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban said on radio Kossuth.

IMG_20240621_194126_556.jpg
 

Gary

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Now imagine you are Ukrainian soldier inside a shallow trench somewhere in the contact line. Just one drop of this near you. And if you're lucky to survive in one piece, you are under concussion and in 5 minutes a Russian assault team with tanks is coming at you.

No wonder Ukrainian positions are being seized one by one everyday.


This is what a FAB-3000 can do to a concrete let alone soft human tissue and muscle.

 

Gary

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Nah, he is okay. @Gary won't go down that easy.

God has yet to give me the privilege to punish my enemies physically. But just like in any war, psychological destruction is as important as physical one.

I will go down, eventually, but not before the mission is complete :)
 

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One day after Romania 🇷🇴 announced the transfer of one of their PAC-3 Patriot batteries to Ukraine, the Netherlands 🇳🇱 announced that they have teamed up with an undisclosed country to provide yet another Patriot Battery to Ukraine, with components coming from both nations involved and the Dutch reimbursing said country for their components so that they can buy new ones.

These are extremely important developments for Ukraine in its attempt to push Russian aviation further back and protect its critical infrastructure from and Russian missile strikes. In the last 3 weeks, Ukraine's tier 1 air defense has literally doubled in size. The current count is as follows:

Germany 🇩🇪: 3 Patriot Batteries
USA 🇺🇸: 2 Patriot Batteries
Romania 🇷🇴: 1 Patriot Battery
Netherlands 🇳🇱: 1 Patriot Battery
France 🇫🇷: 1 SAMP/T Battery
Italy 🇮🇹: 1 SAMP/T Battery

9 tier 1 systems allows Ukraine to use them as follows...

2 systems defending Kyiv
1 system defending Kharkiv
1 system defending Lviv
1 system defending Odessa
1 system defending Dnipro
3 systems roaming, looking for opportunities to ambush Russian aircraft in the south and east of the country.

 
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Iskander

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I can't answer that question because its extremely simplistic and ridicilous, if you knew anything about the conflict about Ukraine and Russia that started A DECADE ago, you would know its not that simple as comparing it to some fictional "invader" that wants to invade your country.

Infact no one scenario is the same, and no war is the same, so you can't make comparisons like that.
It seems like you are victim to the propaganda from your leaders that basically says Russia is pure evil and completely horrible and wrong and Ukraine is a saint and 100% innocent, well thats rubish buddy, things are not black and white.
After a whole day of watching Russia Today, if you find time, read other resources.
Let's say this American.
It will also be useful for @Gary
=========================================

Putin said that Russia is ready to take the most extreme measures if the West brings it closer to strategic defeat: “For Russia, this means the end of its statehood. This means the end of the thousand-year history of the Russian state. Then why should we be afraid? Isn't it better then to go to the end? This is elementary logic."
At the same time, Putin believes that Russia does not yet need a preventive strike and that the potential enemy will be “guaranteed to be destroyed.”
American expert Shelby Magid said that Putin's threats do not surprise anyone, since he has been abusing them for two years and the fear that he will use nuclear weapons is beginning to subside. Rather, he said, they can be seen as a sign of weakness and desperation: “He uses nuclear threats as a show of force, and they have deceived many in the world, especially in the West and in America, into making our policy conditional. due to fears of escalation in Russian use of nuclear weapons.” weapon...
Nuclear threats used to hold America back, but now we see that this is a bluff. The US has just announced a further change in its policy, saying that Ukraine could use American-supplied weapons to attack Russian territory. The White House is easing restrictions on Ukraine." According to Magid, "Putin went to North Korea, which is the largest rogue state in the world - the most totalitarian, but very poor country - to essentially ask for help..." He believes that
“Putin made another huge strategic mistake by signing an alliance with North Korea, threatening South Korea, which now has one of the largest armies and is now considering helping Ukraine militarily.”
Commenting on Putin’s words that the possible loss of the Russian Federation in the war means the end of Russia as a state, the expert said that “it is he (Putin – ed.) who continues to spread the truth in a way convenient for himself.” for him to justify his own war and policies while trying to maintain power. I suspect he is afraid of what the outcome of the war will mean for him and wants to maintain stability in the country."

 

Gary

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After a whole day of watching Russia Today, if you find time, read other resources.
Let's say this American.
It will also be useful for @Gary
=========================================

Putin said that Russia is ready to take the most extreme measures if the West brings it closer to strategic defeat: “For Russia, this means the end of its statehood. This means the end of the thousand-year history of the Russian state. Then why should we be afraid? Isn't it better then to go to the end? This is elementary logic."
At the same time, Putin believes that Russia does not yet need a preventive strike and that the potential enemy will be “guaranteed to be destroyed.”
American expert Shelby Magid said that Putin's threats do not surprise anyone, since he has been abusing them for two years and the fear that he will use nuclear weapons is beginning to subside. Rather, he said, they can be seen as a sign of weakness and desperation: “He uses nuclear threats as a show of force, and they have deceived many in the world, especially in the West and in America, into making our policy conditional. due to fears of escalation in Russian use of nuclear weapons.” weapon...
Nuclear threats used to hold America back, but now we see that this is a bluff. The US has just announced a further change in its policy, saying that Ukraine could use American-supplied weapons to attack Russian territory. The White House is easing restrictions on Ukraine." According to Magid, "Putin went to North Korea, which is the largest rogue state in the world - the most totalitarian, but very poor country - to essentially ask for help..." He believes that
“Putin made another huge strategic mistake by signing an alliance with North Korea, threatening South Korea, which now has one of the largest armies and is now considering helping Ukraine militarily.”
Commenting on Putin’s words that the possible loss of the Russian Federation in the war means the end of Russia as a state, the expert said that “it is he (Putin – ed.) who continues to spread the truth in a way convenient for himself.” for him to justify his own war and policies while trying to maintain power. I suspect he is afraid of what the outcome of the war will mean for him and wants to maintain stability in the country."


And his fear is justified. the West is loud and clear when it declares that the only political outcome they accept is, let me quote that

"the defeat, de-nuclearization, and balkanization of Russia into smaller state"​

Currently, the war is not to Russia's disadvantage, Russia is actually winning the war even though without any real breakthrough. But what if the situation reversed ? And in war reversal of fortune is not something that is not uncommon. So Putin, as a good statesman needs to put that into his calculations on how to move forward. He must be prepared for the worst contingency, the kind of scenario where Putin's army is actually rolled back into Russia or even worse, into Russia's proper.

So I think he made the correct move by actually 'warning' the West about what is his intention if that is the case. In the end nuclear war = MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). They want Russia gone ? Fine, then the West will too be gone, as no one will survive nuclear exchange.

For me. the main problem was and remains Ukraine. Ukraine is the main culprit in this conflict as its existence means constant trouble and constant violence. I propose the cancellation of Ukraine's statehood, the carving up of its territory to be divided among Russia in the East and Western nations (Poland, Romania, or Hungary) to take over in the East. Then the UN, a Western con institution could come up with a resolution of dividing the Ukrainians as guests in the newly carved territory, a UN-sanctioned body, which I would like to call the UNIAFUD (United Nations Integration Agency For Ukrainian Displaced) will be tasked to divide the remaining population into either Russia, or the Western nations mandated to absorb Eastern Ukraine.

This way there will be no war, everyone will be happy and there used to be a time where I prefer this idea.

Of course, I'm saying this knowing fully well how eager the West is in war-mongering. Which then makes my scenario possibility into reality quite slim. I'm okay though, Europe is marginal in importance to me, unlike the Middle East. I simply bet that if Putin wins, it is to my advantage, but if the two (West and Russia) decide to turn this small matter into a nuke exchange, I will not lose sleep over Berlin, Moscow, Kiev, Warsaw getting turned into glass.
 

Spitfire9

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And his fear is justified. the West is loud and clear when it declares that the only political outcome they accept is, let me quote that

"the defeat, de-nuclearization, and balkanization of Russia into smaller state"​

Currently, the war is not to Russia's disadvantage, Russia is actually winning the war even though without any real breakthrough. But what if the situation reversed ? And in war reversal of fortune is not something that is not uncommon. So Putin, as a good statesman needs to put that into his calculations on how to move forward. He must be prepared for the worst contingency, the kind of scenario where Putin's army is actually rolled back into Russia or even worse, into Russia's proper.

So I think he made the correct move by actually 'warning' the West about what is his intention if that is the case. In the end nuclear war = MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). They want Russia gone ? Fine, then the West will too be gone, as no one will survive nuclear exchange.


And his fear is justified. the West is loud and clear when it declares that the only political outcome they accept is, let me quote that

"the defeat, de-nuclearization, and balkanization of Russia into smaller state"​

Currently, the war is not to Russia's disadvantage, Russia is actually winning the war even though without any real breakthrough. But what if the situation reversed ? And in war reversal of fortune is not something that is not uncommon. So Putin, as a good statesman needs to put that into his calculations on how to move forward. He must be prepared for the worst contingency, the kind of scenario where Putin's army is actually rolled back into Russia or even worse, into Russia's proper.

So I think he made the correct move by actually 'warning' the West about what is his intention if that is the case. In the end nuclear war = MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). They want Russia gone ? Fine, then the West will too be gone, as no one will survive nuclear exchange.
There are many people in the west who would love to see a totalitarian, belligerent Russia gone. That does not mean they want to see Russia gone.

Putin can threaten to end it all for everyone if his ambition to re-create a lost empire is thwarted (probably including you - fallout, nuclear winter etc). The west will not accept that everyone has to do what a dictator in a place called Russia says.
 

contricusc

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"the defeat, de-nuclearization, and balkanization of Russia into smaller state"

We can only hope and dream that the day will come when this statement becomes true.

Unfortunatelly, no Western leader has declared this ambition, but if Putin continues his endless series of mistakes and poor decisions, this outcome is not unrealistic.

There are so many potential new states that could arise from the ashes of the Moscovite Empire.
 

Anastasius

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I'm surprised that Gary isn't more in favor of the balkanization of Russia considering how many Muslim peoples live within it and are constantly being kept down by the Russians to crush their desire for freedom from the Russian state. You'd think he'd be in full solidarity with these oppressed peoples and praising Ukraine for actually being the ones to give Crimean Tatars their rights back after decades of getting screwed by Russia.
 

contricusc

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I'm surprised that Gary isn't more in favor of the balkanization of Russia considering how many Muslim peoples live within it and are constantly being kept down by the Russians to crush their desire for freedom from the Russian state. You'd think he'd be in full solidarity with these oppressed peoples and praising Ukraine for actually being the ones to give Crimean Tatars their rights back after decades of getting screwed by Russia.

For Gary, the only muslims that matter are the Palestinians (not that he cares about their lives, but he invokes them as the reason why he hates the West), the Houthis (because they fight against the West) and the Islamic State (because they are fanatical radiclas like him).

He doesn’t care about moderate muslims being opressed in Russia or China.
 

Gary

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I'm surprised that Gary isn't more in favor of the balkanization of Russia considering how many Muslim peoples live within it and are constantly being kept down by the Russians to crush their desire for freedom from the Russian state. You'd think he'd be in full solidarity with these oppressed peoples and praising Ukraine for actually being the ones to give Crimean Tatars their rights back after decades of getting screwed by Russia.

What for? So that 'Muslim' statelets could appear from the ruins of Russia?

If there's one thing I notice as a history buff is that nominal independence =/= freedom. From the 20th Century onwards Muslim-majority states popped out exponentially. But once they gained their independence (which required a lot of Muslim blood) it turned out to be a disaster for the Muslims who fought for it.

It is not lost to me how many Mujahidden battalions from across the world fought wars in Bosnia, Kosovo, etc, only for this country to join the EU and Western-led order and worst of all they adopted secularism, not Islam.
The Indonesian War of Independence wouldn't have been possible if the Muslims hadn't fought tooth to nail for it where their cities were razed to the ground, yet once independent the Indonesian leadership who inherited the country did all it could to fight Islam. The Muslims are the actual losers of the Indonesian independence.

Those Crimean Tatars will eventually return to their homeland, this is the shared debt of Muslims worldwide. But not under the banner of Ukraine, nor Russia or any Westphalian-style nation-state, it will return under the banner of a Unified Islamic (Super) State. Until that day comes, I advise Muslims, both in Ukraine and Russia not to waste their blood for the infidels of Russia and Ukraine, but save it elsewhere where their actual struggle will pay off. Do not repeat the mistakes of the 20th century. This is not you war.

We are still far from the reality of an Islamic superstate, but then again the Middle East is a hotbed for the nucleus of such a state, and I'm betting on a Russian victory in Ukraine to make that reality faster.


For Gary, the only muslims that matter are the Palestinians (not that he cares about their lives, but he invokes them as the reason why he hates the West), the Houthis (because they fight against the West) and the Islamic State (because they are fanatical radiclas like him).

He doesn’t care about moderate muslims being opressed in Russia or China.

All Muslims matter to me LMAO. I have made it clear how I don't adopt the Russian stance on Chechnya or the Balkans or the Chinese propaganda of 'happy' Uyghurs in concentration camps. Even I felt so much anger when Bangladeshis depicted Rohingyas as a national burden.

There's no such things as moderate Muslim, you either follow what Muhammad told or not. I used to be happy when people call me moderates, but now not anymore.
 

Gary

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There are many people in the west who would love to see a totalitarian, belligerent Russia gone. That does not mean they want to see Russia gone.

Putin can threaten to end it all for everyone if his ambition to re-create a lost empire is thwarted (probably including you - fallout, nuclear winter etc). The west will not accept that everyone has to do what a dictator in a place called Russia says.

I'll correct that for you in the language you and I might understand.

What you want is not a 'free and open' Russia in contrast to a ' a totalitarian, belligerent Russia'.

What you want is servitude. a situation where Russia bows down to your so-called 'rules-based order' where only your UK and US has the right to invade and regime change others.
 

contricusc

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There's no such things as moderate Muslim, you either follow what Muhammad told or not. I used to be happy when people call me moderates, but now not anymore.

You just confirmed my point. You are a radical, and you don’t even consdier the moderates to be muslims. Very much like Daesh ideology.
 

Gary

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You just confirmed my point. You are a radical, and you don’t even consdier the moderates to be muslims. Very much like Daesh ideology.

When did I even say that?

A communist is a people who believe that there is no place on earth for bourgeois and private ownership.

An atheist is a people who believes that God is Non-existent

A fascists is a people who believed in racial superiority on top of others

A muslim is a people who believe in God and Muhammed as messenger and actually follows him in action and rhetorics. Now these Muslims themselves who must ask themselves if they have satisfy those conditions.

Could you tell me the example of moderate Muslims in Ukraine? Am curious.
 

mehmed beg

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What for? So that 'Muslim' statelets could appear from the ruins of Russia?

If there's one thing I notice as a history buff is that nominal independence =/= freedom. From the 20th Century onwards Muslim-majority states popped out exponentially. But once they gained their independence (which required a lot of Muslim blood) it turned out to be a disaster for the Muslims who fought for it.

It is not lost to me how many Mujahidden battalions from across the world fought wars in Bosnia, Kosovo, etc, only for this country to join the EU and Western-led order and worst of all they adopted secularism, not Islam.
The Indonesian War of Independence wouldn't have been possible if the Muslims hadn't fought tooth to nail for it where their cities were razed to the ground, yet once independent the Indonesian leadership who inherited the country did all it could to fight Islam. The Muslims are the actual losers of the Indonesian independence.

Those Crimean Tatars will eventually return to their homeland, this is the shared debt of Muslims worldwide. But not under the banner of Ukraine, nor Russia or any Westphalian-style nation-state, it will return under the banner of a Unified Islamic (Super) State. Until that day comes, I advise Muslims, both in Ukraine and Russia not to waste their blood for the infidels of Russia and Ukraine, but save it elsewhere where their actual struggle will pay off. Do not repeat the mistakes of the 20th century. This is not you war.

We are still far from the reality of an Islamic superstate, but then again the Middle East is a hotbed for the nucleus of such a state, and I'm betting on a Russian victory in Ukraine to make that reality faster.




All Muslims matter to me LMAO. I have made it clear how I don't adopt the Russian stance on Chechnya or the Balkans or the Chinese propaganda of 'happy' Uyghurs in concentration camps. Even I felt so much anger when Bangladeshis depicted Rohingyas as a national burden.

There's no such things as moderate Muslim, you either follow what Muhammad told or not. I used to be happy when people call me moderates, but now not anymore.
Don't ever use my country for the garbage you say , ok?
In all , almost 4 years of war in Bosnia, there were between 900 to 1100 . About which effin battalions are you talking about?
What? You have a hard stool and you thought that it is hardness of the soul.
Don't strategise here ,ok? Don't imagine that you are kinda socio, military and political thinker. Don't talk about history, because you ain't one.
You, from Indonesia, who was occupied by the Dutch???!!! Will tell me that so called Islamists saved me?
Bosnian people killed more white people then South East Asia and Indian Subcontinent put together.
Don't philosophise here , trying to teach me what is Russia or Europe etc
I am not teaching you about your nick of wood.
You are going to wash your mouth and pride yourself on the lives of my father, uncle and 2 cousins.
3rd world will act like my saviours?
On this forum, a gentleman posted the picture of Bosnians in Lavov in both world wars.
You are going to be the ultimate strateg ?
You don't know even how to cut bread.
Which effin battalions were in Kosovo?
What you sent me tin of tuna and you think that I will go onto Paris to satisfy your complexes of inferiority?
There are 280 of you, guns in hand and go. OK?
 

Gary

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Don't ever use my country for the garbage you say , ok?
In all , almost 4 years of war in Bosnia, there were between 900 to 1100 . About which effin battalions are you talking about?
What? You have a hard stool and you thought that it is hardness of the soul.
Don't strategise here ,ok? Don't imagine that you are kinda socio, military and political thinker. Don't talk about history, because you ain't one.
You, from Indonesia, who was occupied by the Dutch???!!! Will tell me that so called Islamists saved me?
Bosnian people killed more white people then South East Asia and Indian Subcontinent put together.
Don't philosophise here , trying to teach me what is Russia or Europe etc
I am not teaching you about your nick of wood.
You are going to wash your mouth and pride yourself on the lives of my father, uncle and 2 cousins.
3rd world will act like my saviours?
On this forum, a gentleman posted the picture of Bosnians in Lavov in both world wars.
You are going to be the ultimate strateg ?
You don't know even how to cut bread.
Which effin battalions were in Kosovo?
What you sent me tin of tuna and you think that I will go onto Paris to satisfy your complexes of inferiority?
There are 280 of you, guns in hand and go. OK?

Calm down little guy, your mouth will never deter me. You want to escalate? I will escalate as well. It's not like you have a nice mouth when you talk about my country

It's the truth, like it or not, the Bosnian war saw active Mujahideen battalions from all across the world fought in that conflict... And once everything is over. What is the thank you of Bosnia? They start a bilateral relationship with Israel.

Yeah right. If anything a the idea of a Balkanized Russia as @Anastasius toys with will at best create another 5-10 mini Bosnia out if the hypothetical ruin of Russia. Something I would never accept and I would never endorse.

Bosnia is the last place on earth where Muslims must die for any hypothetical future nation borne out of Muslim blood but don't adopt Islam as it's main political system.

So yes, the Bosnian example is the prime example why I don't support the Balkanization of Russia as many suggest I must
 
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