Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Dmitry]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631239842196512768

 

[Dmitry]

Russians are already accusing Ukrainians of operating under a false flag

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631243867415625730

 

[Dmitry]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631240181696147457

 

[MaciekRS]

Those russian provocations are simultaneously sad and funny.

 

[Nykyus]

Curbing and destroying the alliance of China, Russia, Iran, North Korea is in the interests of Turkey and the Turkic countries of Central Asia: Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan. In these Turkic countries, anti-Chinese sentiment is very strong and cannot be bought with Chinese money, so their leaders have balanced between receiving Chinese investment and the mood of the population. In the plans of Turkey and all Central Asian countries, the liberation of East Turkestan from the power of Chinese tyranny would be a great success. Therefore, the interests of the United States and Turkey coincide in this.
The United States did a lot for the Soviet Union to extend its dominance. When, after the October Revolution in Russia, Great Britain and France tightened sanctions against Russia, expelled from the League of Nations in response to the attack on Finland in 1939, only the United States maintained close relations with the USSR. The Americans built automobile and tractor factories in the USSR. The Americans liked Trotskyism, their slogans "freedom, equality, brotherhood." The United States in every possible way prevented Japan from expanding into Siberia in the 1920s.
In turn, the Soviet Union contributed to the unification of China into one state, technological progress, training of Chinese personnel, and carried out subversive work against Japan. The Soviet Union militarily suppressed Uyghur separatism and an attempt to create a Uyghur state. Stalin gave the East Turkestan Republic to China, Mao Tse Tung, and exterminated their leaders by staging a plane crash. However, Mao played a double game, lip service to the loyalty of the USSR, he began to oust and exterminate the pro-Soviet leaders, Gao Gang. He led similarly to Kuomintang leader Chiang Kai-shek. Under Sun Yat-sen, the Kuomintang was an ally of the Communists. Then Chiang Kai-shek began to oust the communists.
If not for the United States, the Soviet Union could have fallen as a result of: 1) foreign intervention and civil war in the 1920s, 2) as a result of an attack by Hitler's army in 1941, 3) as a result of the rise of separatism in Russia in 1990 years: Chechnya, Tatarstan, Bashkortostan.
If not for the help of the USSR, then China would have remained divided into separate military cliques, many Chinese states, since the 1920s. China would not have built an industrial state. China in the 1920s united from the south, the military from the south. Soviet military advisers such as Blucher, a participant in the Russian Civil War, developed plans to defeat neighboring cliques from neighboring provinces. This school was called the Whampu school.
In those years, Soviet military specialists also participated on the side of Turkey against Greece. All this took place under the slogan of the fight against colonialism.

 

[Dmitry]

Consequences of tonight Russia's terrorist attack on a residential building in the city of Zaporizhzhya
On this moment 4 dead, 8 injured, 5 missing

 

[Lordimperator]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631279911443873795

A50 AWACS? Looks like small drone

 

[TR_123456]

Lets stay on topic!

 

[Era_shield]

Slightly less deep-fried version of the A50 AWACS video which is visible at the end:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631274445955375105

 

[Lordimperator]

Slightly less deep-fried version of the A50 AWACS video which is visible at the end:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631274445955375105

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631300558463070211

 

[UkroTurk]

France allows transfer of Mirage fighters to Ukraine

A dozen decommissioned Mirage 2000-Cs still have potential

The issue of the transfer of 12 fighters, which were decommissioned and put into storage in the summer of 2022, is being discussed.

France is considering the transfer of Mirage 2000 fighters to Ukraine and may start training Ukrainian pilots in Poland.

According to BMFTV, this information was confirmed by the head of the country's Ministry of Defense, Sebastian Lecornu. He acknowledged that negotiations with Kiev are underway, but did not confirm either the transfer or the training of the flight crew.

According to him, the issue of transferring 12 fighters, which were decommissioned and put into storage in the summer of 2022, is being discussed.



The minister clarified that the difficulties with the transfer of aircraft are related to logistics, training and the possibility of their maintenance. "All this is in time horizons that are clearly not short-term," - said Lecornu.

 

[Lordimperator]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631319009608998914

 

[Gary]

Yes, I remember that episode too, and while it may sound cynical, it is the truth that many people in the West are afraid to say.

The fact that it happened to a “civilized” country and to people who “drove cars just like ours” makes this war much more scarier for a large part of the world.

Until now, people in sufficiently developed countries had a feeling of security because such things didn’t happen to people like them. When seeing the war in Ukraine with rockets hitting shopping malls, people realize that even places like the ones where they live can turn into conflict zones.

Yes, when you yourself divide attack into civilized country based on what people drive, then you know, you shouldn't be playing awe and shock when people couldn't or wouldn't differentiate this war with some African wars.

It’s not about Ukrainians being white Europeans. It is about the culture and lifestyle. We would be equally outraged if we saw rockets hitting shopping malls in Taiwan or South Korea, just like we were outraged when the terrorists bombed a shopping mall in Nairobi a few years ago. It’s harder to relate to the war in Yemen than it is with the situation in Ukraine,

True, I believe people drove donkeys in Libya and Iraq and there's no such things as malls in that part of the world.

The war in Ukraine hits a sensible cord with many people because it affect their own sense of security.

Your earlier complain that half of the world (which btw happens on the other side of the world) are indecent due to their failure to objection of the war. But for them, war in Ukraine wouldn't affect their own sense of security simply because some these country have no idea what Ukraine is (or what people drive there).

Even though I'm writing this knowing that this is not the real reason behind it, but realpolitik on their part.

The order is not created entirely by the West. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have had China and Russia in the UN Security Council.

You equate the entire Western order = UN security council ?? really ?? is that it ??

A lot of the poverty and the bad situation in many places is because of the Soviet Union and its malign influence it had for 50 years, with its failed Communist ideology and defence of dictatorships.

Communism is a failed economic models true, but be real, there are numerous poor U.S aligned countries which also have dictatorships.

Hopefully Russia’s influence will be greatly diminished after this war and there will be less support for dictators around the world.

Support for dictators are a great power thing.

So there is a big difference between what the collective West think is “precious” and what Russia/China do. The West defends democratic countries where people are treated with respect and have basic rights, while Russia/China defend brutal dictatorships known for abusing their people, enslaving populations and imprisoning opponents. There is no equivalence, really.

Pretty much the same, the U.S goes to war for they believe is precious (democracy), Russia goes to war for what they deemed precious (land), physical control would directly influence how people's live.. There's really no difference. Both will kill and both are just as cruel.

Russia believes that every of its neighbor must be subjugated under its influence...so does the U.S with Monroe doctrine

Monroe Doctrine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There's really no saints in politics...no matter how you would like to sugarcoat one.

Yes, proximity to a war certainly matters. In Indonesia you don’t feel threatened by what happens in Ukraine, but if you would look at the whole picture, you would realize that things are connected and what happens in Ukraine could have ramifications in the Asia-Pacific region. In Europe we are far away from China, but we are concerned by what China might do in Taiwan and we are also bothered by China’s aggressive policies in regards to islands belonging to the Philppines and the militarization of the South China Sea. We care about dangerous geopolitical moves even when they happen thousands of kilometes away.

Because that dangerous political moves have ramifications on the West hold on power in that particular part of the world, not because of people's well being that region. But Asia Pacific is another story.

 

[contricusc]

Yes, when you yourself divide attack into civilized country based on what people drive, then you know, you shouldn't be playing awe and shock when people couldn't or wouldn't differentiate this war with some African wars.

I was just explaining how many people see things, not saying it is right or wrong. Like it or not, the truth is Ukraine is more similar with other European countries than how Saddam’s Iraq or Gaddafi’s Libya were. This is why regular people can relate easier with the plight of the Ukrainians.

True, I believe people drove donkeys in Libya and Iraq and there's no such things as malls in that part of the world.

You’re greatly exaggerating, but I’m sure you understand what I meant.

Your earlier complain that half of the world (which btw happens on the other side of the world) are indecent due to their failure to objection of the war. But for them, war in Ukraine wouldn't affect their own sense of security simply because some these country have no idea what Ukraine is (or what people drive there).

Keep in mind that there were many protests in the Western world against the Iraq war, despite Iraq being a dictatorship, and the war didn’t having the purpose of stealing Iraq’s land. Even if Westerners didn’t relate very much with Iraq at the time, there was still a lot of opposition against the war because being against it was the moral position to have.

You equate the entire Western order = UN security council ??

The current world order is the result of the cold war. The West had to compromise on a lot of things in order to avoid the Soviets gaining influence. The world order is not how it is by Western design, but as a result of many negotiations and compromises. The UN Security Council is just a reflection of the wider situation.

Communism is a failed economic models true, but be real, there are numerous poor U.S aligned countries which also have dictatorships.

One of the reasons the US had to compromise when dealing with dictators is because of the risk of losing the countries to the Soviet and now Chinese influence. When you have to choose between having a friendly dictator or an opposing dictator that is aligned to your enemy, you choose the former, despite not agreeing with what he is doing.

A lot of the bad choices that the US made were a result of the need to counter Soviet influence.

Support for dictators are a great power thing.

It’s something the West does because the alternative would be much worse, not because it is a good thing. On the other side, the Russians support dictators because they prefer dictatorships to democracies.

Pretty much the same, the U.S goes to war for they believe is precious (democracy), Russia goes to war for what they deemed precious (land), physical control would directly influence how people's live.. There's really no difference. Both will kill and both are just as cruel.

There is no difference between supporing democracy vs trying to steal land? Really? Are you srious?

Russia believes that every of its neighbor must be subjugated under its influence...so does the U.S with Monroe doctrine

Monroe Doctrine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There's really no saints in politics...no matter how you would like to sugarcoat one.

Yes, there are no saints in politics, but you can’t compare the opression of Russian imperialism to being under US influence. This is why all Eastern European countries wanted to join NATO and the EU and exit Russia’s sphere of influence. Because it is a huge difference between the two.

 

[Ecderha]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631239404193980419

 

[Nilgiri]

Some statements that have popped up:

BREAKING: Kadyrov is very bad - a well-known nephrologist urgently flew out of the UAE, as he doesn't trust Russian doctors. Some report that he was poisoned, others say he has kidney failure

"The supply of aircraft for Ukraine, which will be serviced in Poland, is a direct NATO entry into the war with Russia" - Medvedev

 

[Ecderha]

Ukraine single tank and soldiers vs russian IFVs military group

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631350863636619280

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631386296491843595

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631386595944177683

 

[Gary]

I was just explaining how many people see things, not saying it is right or wrong. Like it or not, the truth is Ukraine is more similar with other European countries than how Saddam’s Iraq or Gaddafi’s Libya were. This is why regular people can relate easier with the plight of the Ukrainians.

Which in the end, this statement above me concur to my earlier assessments on why Ukraine is somewhat seen more important by Europeans :

Namely ,

1. It happens right in Europe (after many years relegating wars to third world countries and bragged about it)
2. The victims just happens to look like you and share many physical trait and/or habits

Look, I'm not saying this is wrong, humans are naturally attracted to something similar or relatable to them. But in politics where everything is measured by gains and losses, you need to understand that not all countries share those same concern. Certainly not the likes of China, Iran or any of the list you see below.

Keep in mind that there were many protests in the Western world against the Iraq war, despite Iraq being a dictatorship, and the war didn’t having the purpose of stealing Iraq’s land. Even if Westerners didn’t relate very much with Iraq at the time, there was still a lot of opposition against the war because being against it was the moral position to have.

These peoples have no power and are irrelevant. Certainly from those 141 countries in favor of condemning Russia, not all individual citizens of that particular country share the same thought with what their government rep at the U.N decide where their country standing is.

The current world order is the result of the cold war. The West had to compromise on a lot of things in order to avoid the Soviets gaining influence. The world order is not how it is by Western design, but as a result of many negotiations and compromises. The UN Security Council is just a reflection of the wider situation.

This is beyond this thread discussion, but short answer is no.

One of the reasons the US had to compromise when dealing with dictators is because of the risk of losing the countries to the Soviet and now Chinese influence. When you have to choose between having a friendly dictator or an opposing dictator that is aligned to your enemy, you choose the former, despite not agreeing with what he is doing.

in other words, the end justify the means to you....which btw is the same energy that Russia goes to war with in Ukraine.

A lot of the bad choices that the US made were a result of the need to counter Soviet influence.

let me add that for you....A lot of the bad choices that the US made were a result of the need to counter Soviet influence and expand their own

It’s something the West does because the alternative would be much worse, not because it is a good thing. On the other side, the Russians support dictators because they prefer dictatorships to democracies.

Pinochet certainly isn't deposing another dictator. Allende is not what you would call a dictator.
Mossadegh is no Commie, yet who deposed him in the end ?

There is no difference between supporing democracy vs trying to steal land? Really? Are you srious?

The difference is too little in the grand scheme of things. You know there's a truth behind every joke including this one

Some countries choose democracy while others are forced too, its not uncommon to see countries invaded just because their undemocratic. Russia pulverize people under the name of restoring the Russian world (Rusky Mir)...others pulverize people under the name of restoring democracy. I don't see any difference really.

Yes, there are no saints in politics, but you can’t compare the opression of Russian imperialism to being under US influence. This is why all Eastern European countries wanted to join NATO and the EU and exit Russia’s sphere of influence. Because it is a huge difference between the two.

I could understand why Eastern Europe aren't keen on Russian imperialism, but what I fail to understand is why Westerners can't understand that not all people suffer under Russia and not keen to start suffering for a faraway conflict.