Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[mehmed beg]

You live in Europe yet you don't care about the European economy suffering, how sad, because of people thinking like you Europe is in this situation it is now ( and im not only talking about the Ukranian war but a host of other issues we have ).

Where is the patriotism? Its sorely missing from so many people here, so called Europeans.

There is no european country that Russia can take, name me 3, I dare you.

Well my grandfather was a German officer in WW2 , the best Austro Hungarian units in ww1 were Bosnian brigades and Ottoman Army fought that communism and other nonesense doesn't come to Europe in ww1.
So please stop this corny pseudo right wing serenade.
Where were you?
Chomping Tablerone ?
Give me a break

 

[contricusc]

In a hypothetic scenario where Russia would attack the baltics, you can't be serious to think that the US would side with Russia, thats crazy talk sorry.

His statements about Canada being a 51th state and stuff like that is pretty silly, I don't take him seriously, and im no fan of Trump he has quite a lot of issues, but I happen to agree with him regarding Ukraine.

Under Trump, he would definitely not side with the Baltics. He would say some stupid things like “it’s not our war”, ”they provoked Putin”, “Kallas is a warmonger”, etc., and he would stay neutral while blaming the Baltics for not doing Putin’s wishes.

For Trump, there is no difference between Ukraine and Estonia. He doesn’t care about either. Also, any alliance, accord or deal is meaningless for him. He signed the USMCA trade deal with Mexico and Canada during his first term, praising it as the “best deal ever”, and now he is threatening to put tariffs on both. He doesn’t even care about the deal he personally signed. Do you think he cares about NATO?

His voter base hates Europe and loves Putin, and all Trump cares about is to score political points at home. International treaties mean nothing to him.

 

[blackjack]

Everyone knows I said this over 100 times on this thread and even Trump and Vance have said it multiple times even today with Zelensky, "Ukraine is running out of bodies."

I dont want to compare majority of users here to euro leaders or western media outlets but with the amount of I hate Russia and love Ukraine goal there is none that address the issue of what ways can Ukraine deal with their body shortage even with the fact that increasing weapons and support are not working.

Zelensky did not even attempt to discuss to either Trump or Vance that an increase in weapons and support will get Russians out of their territory due to the fact that Trump and Vance will give him the answer that would crush the general western public's support for Ukraine. No Politican, New's media outlet, some big shot Ukraine twitter user wanted to engage any of J.D. Vance's Twitter posts which were referring to Europe's situation and Ukraine's lack of bodies and I do know those posts of his got like over 10s of millions of views because his response would crush the western public's support for Ukraine if he was to give a further explanation for it. If anything, Zelensky is lucky that neither Trump or Vance went straight for his throat for them to explain why it would be impossible for them to win the war with Russia if they were going to support Ukraine with funding because the answer would be something along the lines of they would get wiped out at the rate they are fighting in the war that would not result in a victory which is the reason they are telling you to make a peace deal.

Has Europe ever explained how much money or support is actually required for Ukraine to win? Their only answers are begging the Americans to get into the war assisting their peacekeepers which basically means admitting that Ukraine can't get the job done keeping the Russians out anymore. So as of now we are going to continue watching the Russian's push west and wait on further actions from Europe which as of now is cheering for Ukraine. Europe is probably going to watch Ukraine get fucked in the ass long enough for Europe to take advantage over whatever is left of Ukraine, at least the west of it. Because Europeans might assume that Ukraine will give up if Russians touch Kiev while they still can physically fuck over Ukraine next demanding for their minerals(as cash back for their support) or what's left of it from the west.......What a fucked ending we will see that even I feel bad.

I know you guys are capable of doing critical thinking even a little of it.

 

[Relic]

Today was strictly for "show". It was completely premeditated by Vance and Trump to appeal to their base. It was back to Trump's days of doing "the Apprentice". But people need to learn to cut through the BS talking points and follow the actions.

1. What Trump is trying to do is get this mineral deal done so he can continue sending military aid to Ukraine quietly, while loudly promoting to his followers that he's made the Ukrainians capitulate to a mineral deal that would recoup the money America has spent on the war. In reality, anyone that has read the leaked text of that deal knows that it was completely hollow and not what Trump and Vance are promoting it to the U.S. people as. What the deal really is, is a way for U.S. direct investment to spread into Ukraine, so that behind the scenes Trump could threaten Putin, and say "those are our interests now, so if you fuck around, I'll give the Ukrainians everything they need to repel you and more"... But on the surface, Trump would let Putin save face by getting a percentage of Ukraine in a peace deal, in exchange for the war coming to an end.

2. What Zelensky did wasn't disrespectful in any context. Again, it was all just "for show" on Trump and Vance's side. But what Zelensky did frustrated the American leadership because he's prodding them to make public comments condemning Putin and wanting them to openly aide with Ukraine, while simultaneously trying to get the Russians to negotiate. Trump and Vance wanted that meeting in front of the public to be all about the mineral deal and convince the base that America was getting some huge win. They were annoyed that Zelensky brought it back to questions about trusting Putin and negotiations, because anything negative they said about Putin would further setup American-Russian negotiations. Trump and Vance were frustrated that Zelensky wanted to talk about the war in public fashion and Zelensky wanted to take the opportunity to hold the feet of the Americans to fire publicly by getting the. To talk about something they were trying to avoid in the public realm.

This was pure geopolitics mixed with entertainment. Trump doesn't hate Zelensky and he fully understands how valuable Ukraine is in draining the Russian resource pool and weakening Russia's hand globally, while destroying their irreplaceable Soviet stockpile. But Trump wants Zelensky to accept the role of playing "weak" on the surface, while continuing to receive support quietly, on the backend. Zelensky, on the other hand, wants support from the Americans to be public and for them to strongly and openly back the Ukrainian war effort, because he thinks that serves as the best deterrent to Putin and creates the best morale for the Ukrainian people. Both sides know that a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine is still quite a ways off, but both want to arrive at it differently.

Meanwhile, Europe wants Ukraine to keep fighting and they're willing to step up with new support packages to keep Ukraine in the fight. But what Europe is after is an increasingly destroyed Russian Army. Make no mistake about it, Ukraine is losing a lot of soldiers and weapons of war too, but Russian advancement costs the Russian military unfathomable amounts of equipment and manpower. We saw them take 6 months and the destruction of Wagner to take tiny, Bahkmut. They've now been stuck for another 7 months attempting to take another defensive position in Pokrovsk. Russia has no reasonable chance of taking Kharkiv or Kramatorsk-Slovyansk within the next year, therefore, Ukraine's eastern strongholds are relatively safe. But if Russia takes 5% more of Ukraine over the next year, at the cost of significant depletion of their armor, artillery shells, etc.... Europe sees that as a win. Kyiv will not fall and what remains of Ukraine post war will eventually join the EU, but right now the Ukrainian willingness to fight for every cm of land is a win for Europe.

In short, nothing has really changed other than Europe realizing that they'll have to step up significantly financially and Trump confirming that they will not be an open ally of the Ukrainians and would rather do things behind the scenes instead, while forcing Europe to foot a great portion of the bill.

 

[Saithan]

Sorry mate, but you can't pull reality show PR rating like this. I know the world has become a big joke of a Big Brother is Watching you ever since reality tv was introduced, but not being open and clear about things just isn't good. not for Democracy, not for world peace.

If what you say is true, then world is getting more corrupt and fucked up by the second. You should know that.

As I se eit. Nuclear weapons and Nuclear power plant meltdowns like tjernobyl are the only absolute force that can prevent shit happening to your country.

 

[mehmed beg]

Everyone knows I said this over 100 times on this thread and even Trump and Vance have said it multiple times even today with Zelensky, "Ukraine is running out of bodies."

I dont want to compare majority of users here to euro leaders or western media outlets but with the amount of I hate Russia and love Ukraine goal there is none that address the issue of what ways can Ukraine deal with their body shortage even with the fact that increasing weapons and support are not working.

Zelensky did not even attempt to discuss to either Trump or Vance that an increase in weapons and support will get Russians out of their territory due to the fact that Trump and Vance will give him the answer that would crush the general western public's support for Ukraine. No Politican, New's media outlet, some big shot Ukraine twitter user wanted to engage any of J.D. Vance's Twitter posts which were referring to Europe's situation and Ukraine's lack of bodies and I do know those posts of his got like over 10s of millions of views because his response would crush the western public's support for Ukraine if he was to give a further explanation for it. If anything, Zelensky is lucky that neither Trump or Vance went straight for his throat for them to explain why it would be impossible for them to win the war with Russia if they were going to support Ukraine with funding because the answer would be something along the lines of they would get wiped out at the rate they are fighting in the war that would not result in a victory which is the reason they are telling you to make a peace deal.

Has Europe ever explained how much money or support is actually required for Ukraine to win? Their only answers are begging the Americans to get into the war assisting their peacekeepers which basically means admitting that Ukraine can't get the job done keeping the Russians out anymore. So as of now we are going to continue watching the Russian's push west and wait on further actions from Europe which as of now is cheering for Ukraine. Europe is probably going to watch Ukraine get fucked in the ass long enough for Europe to take advantage over whatever is left of Ukraine, at least the west of it. Because Europeans might assume that Ukraine will give up if Russians touch Kiev while they still can physically fuck over Ukraine next demanding for their minerals(as cash back for their support) or what's left of it from the west.......What a fucked ending we will see that even I feel bad.

I know you guys are capable of doing critical thinking even a little of it.

How is the new doctrine called Budyonni doctrine is working?
I heard that soon you might brash up
some Assyrian chariot charges tactics?

 

[Anastasius]

I actually agree with @Relic that the whole mineral deal is basically just to give America an official stake in Ukraine so that Russia wouldn't be so eager to go any further without risking a hot war with the US. And Trump has been pretty open about the fact that going around shitting on Russia in public doesn't help. Even if you think someone is a bastard, ideal strategy is to give them a smile and a hug on one hand while shoving a knife in their back with the other. This of course isn't something that you can do openly, it requires behind-the-scenes work that the general public will never know about.

 

[FiReFTW]

We can understand what your problem is. As a non-NATO and EU member, you really don’t care other nations or peoples fears and hardships. As a nation of “War Profiteers”, you always care the economically side of a war. And as a nation of “ Neutrality”, you can ‘pick up sides’ (interests) without involving in the conflict. Sometimes, neutrality means cowardice.

This is a forum about the discussion of the Russian ukranian war and everything to do with it, it's about sharing opinions of everyone and different point of views.

I will never understand why some users here use personal attacks on someone who doesn't share their opinion, attacking me with personal insults and talking about me personally when you don't know anything about me.

I'm not even going to go into details because I find it very insulting, but I lived in an EU country for almost as long as anywhere else and I care a great deal about EU and NATO, it just seems to be hard to understand for some of you people that the best thing for EU and NATO and everyone involved in this war actually is to END THE WAR.

It seems to be hard to understand this fact for some reason and alot of people here are acting like warmongers.

 

[FiReFTW]

What are you even talking about?
All of your discourse is nonesencical propaganda?
It is Russia who attacked Ukraine, no? So why do you blame Ukrainians for any deaths ?
Are they are supposed to role over to satisfy your newly found humanism ?
What was 2 years ago? Bio labs? Then Bandera Nazis? Now newly found humanism?
I am all in tears , that someone is concerned about me.
Maybe it is fine for you to cry for few more Frank's that you need to pay, didn't you cry about that, but for the people who are the n the fire , the perspective is completely different.
Are you recently found humanism gives you an Idea that other people should think like you?
By the way in the Bosnian war I exchanged fire with Ukrainians, I have never heard at that time a humanists of your type.
What the F are you even talking about?

Do you even read what I write or are you just making up stuff?

1.I never said Russia didn't attack Ukraine
2.I never blamed anyone for anything
3.Yes for the people in the line of fire it is horrible and EXTREMELY DIFFICULT, THATS WHY I AM SAYING TO STOP THE WAR? MAYBE?

 

[FiReFTW]

For every warmonger here on this forum, what will Ukraine gain if this war goes on for more years?
Purely from the Ukranian perspective now not the European one.

They are already drained of manpower, the more the war drags on the harder it becomes and the more manpower problems they have, there is no way they will get any territory back that they lost so far they will only keep losing more and more, so what POINT is there to continue the war or to keep the war going for more years from the Ukranian perspective?

They are losing their future also with generations of young men wiped out, their population will suffer greatly in the next 50 years.
More and more destruction for their country as the war goes on.
I seriously fail to understand this logic.

 

[mehmed beg]

For every warmonger here on this forum, what will Ukraine gain if this war goes on for more years?
Purely from the Ukranian perspective now not the European one.

They are already drained of manpower, the more the war drags on the harder it becomes and the more manpower problems they have, there is no way they will get any territory back that they lost so far they will only keep losing more and more, so what POINT is there to continue the war or to keep the war going for more years from the Ukranian perspective?

They are losing their future also with generations of young men wiped out, their population will suffer greatly in the next 50 years.
More and more destruction for their country as the war goes on.
I seriously fail to understand this logic.

It is not only you who wonders about various questions.
I wonder for example at which point Russian appetite for other people land will end?
What indicates that it has the end? Don't tell me that they are not planning to wipe out Muslims of Balkan off the map? Or that they aren't talking about their " rightfull " claim in regards of Khazastan?
Or did Russian ever tried to come to some peaceful agreement in Syria, during Assad time?
Is there any reasonable offer for peace towards Ukraine?
I mean, the peace can come to Middle East as long as Palestinans live in Sinai in tents and some Dutch guy has 10 day ski jet holiday Gaza? Yeah , certainly it would be the peace but do you expect that Palestinans accept that? And even if they accept, would Israel stop aggression in Syria???
We both understand this parallel and we both understand the answers?
It would be pretty strange not to understand this logic???

 

[FiReFTW]

It is not only you who wonders about various questions.
I wonder for example at which point Russian appetite for other people land will end?
What indicates that it has the end? Don't tell me that they are not planning to wipe out Muslims of Balkan off the map? Or that they aren't talking about their " rightfull " claim in regards of Khazastan?
Or did Russian ever tried to come to some peaceful agreement in Syria, during Assad time?
Is there any reasonable offer for peace towards Ukraine?
I mean, the peace can come to Middle East as long as Palestinans live in Sinai in tents and some Dutch guy has 10 day ski jet holiday Gaza? Yeah , certainly it would be the peace but do you expect that Palestinans accept that? And even if they accept, would Israel stop aggression in Syria???
We both understand this parallel and we both understand the answers?
It would be pretty strange not to understand this logic???

The point is that Ukraine is losing land, yes slowly but surely they are losing more and more land, and more and more people, YOUNG people, the FUTURE of the country.
Theres no choice but to end this war as soon as possible because its just not sustainable anymore.
Do you not care about so many Ukranians that are being killed daily?
The USA is right and they are seeking to end the war and making huge efforts to do so, and yet they are undermined by Zelensky and our own politicians of Europe, because they claim they can't do diplomacy and they can't trust Russia blabla... but that means they don't really want peace, they want to keep on with this war, and if they keep on then more and more Ukranians will die, and even more and more land will be lost.
Europeans just keep talking and talking and talking, but they have no plan or end game in place, nothing.

Then there are some people like some posters here who claim well its not fair that Ukraine losses the land including Crimea to Russia so we can't negotiate or accept peace... well NEWSFLASH, its NOT FAIR, but ITS REALITY, you just have to accept it.
At some point you have to realize what the reality is and that some things are just not possible.

But there can be a real peace negotiated, that is infact 100% a fact, and that doesn't mean Russia will attack Ukraine again or other European countries again, this can all be negotiated and sign in paper form, it needs to be thought out very well but everything can be signed and negotiated and put in paper form to absolutely 100% prevent any conflict on European soil from Russia in the future, because there can be many consequences in written form if anything like that happens where Russia would never ever consider something like that.

Rubio talks alot of sense here

 

[Barry]

Open a book

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Trump and Israel apologists are so funny!

 

[mehmed beg]

The point is that Ukraine is losing land, yes slowly but surely they are losing more and more land, and more and more people, YOUNG people, the FUTURE of the country.
Theres no choice but to end this war as soon as possible because its just not sustainable anymore.
Do you not care about so many Ukranians that are being killed daily?
The USA is right and they are seeking to end the war and making huge efforts to do so, and yet they are undermined by Zelensky and our own politicians of Europe, because they claim they can't do diplomacy and they can't trust Russia blabla... but that means they don't really want peace, they want to keep on with this war, and if they keep on then more and more Ukranians will die, and even more and more land will be lost.
Europeans just keep talking and talking and talking, but they have no plan or end game in place, nothing.

Then there are some people like some posters here who claim well its not fair that Ukraine losses the land including Crimea to Russia so we can't negotiate or accept peace... well NEWSFLASH, its NOT FAIR, but ITS REALITY, you just have to accept it.
At some point you have to realize what the reality is and that some things are just not possible.

But there can be a real peace negotiated, that is infact 100% a fact, and that doesn't mean Russia will attack Ukraine again or other European countries again, this can all be negotiated and sign in paper form, it needs to be thought out very well but everything can be signed and negotiated and put in paper form to absolutely 100% prevent any conflict on European soil from Russia in the future, because there can be many consequences in written form if anything like that happens where Russia would never ever consider something like that.

Rubio talks alot of sense here

Paper? Ukraine had the nukes, kh 22 missiles, TU 160 , TU 22s and in return, they got a peace of napkin!?
Who knows, maybe if it was on a sheet if paper, it could have been different?

 

[FiReFTW]

Paper? Ukraine had the nukes, kh 22 missiles, TU 160 , TU 22s and in return, they got a peace of napkin!?
Who knows, maybe if it was on a sheet if paper, it could have been different?

What does that have to do with anything, im saying we need PEACE, the war needs to end now, its best for UKRAINE, for Russia, for Europe, for USA, for everyone.

 

[Relic]

I actually agree with @Relic that the whole mineral deal is basically just to give America an official stake in Ukraine so that Russia wouldn't be so eager to go any further without risking a hot war with the US. And Trump has been pretty open about the fact that going around shitting on Russia in public doesn't help. Even if you think someone is a bastard, ideal strategy is to give them a smile and a hug on one hand while shoving a knife in their back with the other. This of course isn't something that you can do openly, it requires behind-the-scenes work that the general public will never know about.

Exactly. Zelensky wants public support for Ukraine the way he had it from Biden and the way he has it from many if the European countries. He knows that the morale of the people in his country is significantly bolstered by open U.S. support. He also knows that European support is much more likely to endure and increase if the U.S. "backstop" is there.

Meanwhile, Trump and Vance are looking for an off ramp from the conflict so they can turn their priorities elsewhere. They know that Russia is a paper tiger as it relates to any threat they might pose to American dominance. The Russian's are forced to do everything in their conventual power militarily to simply advance slowly in Ukraine, featuring the West's mothballed equipment and old technology. The United States would utterly crush Russia in a conventional hot war and they know that. Trump wants to keep bleeding the Russians out by sending Ukraine aid behind the scenes, while relationship building with the Russians in public in order to allow Putin to save face. Such is the way of geopolitics.

Yesterday was a perfect example of two leaders politicking effectively for their respective countries and conveying the message that their respective voters want to hear.

 

[mehmed beg]

What does that have to do with anything, im saying we need PEACE, the war needs to end now, its best for UKRAINE, for Russia, for Europe, for USA, for everyone.

Listen dude in discussions, some honesty, at least the most basic one , is required. Otherwise it just becomes the serenade
It convenient to skip many questions, and if someone reads our exchanges, it is obvious?
To say that it is irrelevant that Ukraine gave up its deterrent on false promises, is very insecure to say the least,no?
To claim that something is the best for everyone is simply childish statement,
Do you think that my interest aligns with yours and why it should?
Do you honestly think that I don't know that next in line is me?
Do you honestly think that I don't know from day one that pseudo right is for unity with Putin , in order to annihilate Muslims? And seemingly that's priority over so called fight against China.
You see besides humane reasons for my support for Ukraine, I have practicall reasons.
More Russians die , more material they loose is better for me. I know it sounds cruel and I am not happy about that but it is better for me
Trust me I know what is better for me then you do

What does that have to do with anything, im saying we need PEACE, the war needs to end now, its best for UKRAINE, for Russia, for Europe, for USA, for everyone.

 

[Iskander]

I think everyone knows that I am laughing so damn hard right now.
It is also as I said as Trump and Vance have sad, Ukraine is running out of men.
View attachment 73924
View attachment 73925
View attachment 73926

Don't rush to rejoice, so as not to be disappointed later. As the Russians say:
"Don't say "Hop" until you jump over it."

(Не говори Гоп, пока не перепрыгнишь)

 

[FiReFTW]

Listen dude in discussions, some honesty, at least the most basic one , is required. Otherwise it just becomes the serenade
It convenient to skip many questions, and if someone reads our exchanges, it is obvious?
To say that it is irrelevant that Ukraine gave up its deterrent on false promises, is very insecure to say the least,no?
To claim that something is the best for everyone is simply childish statement,
Do you think that my interest aligns with yours and why it should?
Do you honestly think that I don't know that next in line is me?
Do you honestly think that I don't know from day one that pseudo right is for unity with Putin , in order to annihilate Muslims? And seemingly that's priority over so called fight against China.
You see besides humane reasons for my support for Ukraine, I have practicall reasons.
More Russians die , more material they loose is better for me. I know it sounds cruel and I am not happy about that but it is better for me
Trust me I know what is better for me then you do

So you don't care about people dying, gotcha, doesn't suprize me to be honest.