Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Relic]

Wasting money on air defence, while there is no talk of Taurus, Tomahawks or other long range missiles, which is what Ukraine actually needs.

No amount of Patriots, NASAMS, IRIS-T or any other air defence systems will be able to stop Russia from launching hundreds of drones daily at Ukraine. There is only one way to stop that, and that is based on offensive capabilities. The Russian MIC needs to be targeted inside Russia. Otherwise, we will continue to see nightly waves of drones and missiles exhausting Ukraine’s air defenses, no matter how many new missiles the West sends.

Israel bombed Iran in order to stop the missiles coming. The same must be done with Russia. Anything else is just wasting money down the drain, while Ukraine continues to lose lifes.

The systems you named are largely not designed, nor are they being regularly used to intercept drones. Those systems are imperative to protect Ukrainian cities, critical infrastructure and military sites from cruise missiles and ballistic missiles. Sure, they'll target the odd drone as required, but Ukraine has a number of other cheeper systems designed for that purpose. Everything including Gepard, Skynex, F-16s, Mirage-2000, Mig-29, SU-27, Crotale, Manpads, FrankenSAM, ASRAAM, Starstreak, Martlett, Avenger, etc, etc are primarily used to shoot down drones.

I continue to believe that Ukraine needs a robust and diverse air defense network AND additional offensive strike capability. And not just long range missiles, but all kinds of armor, artillery and medium range weapons as well.

There is room for the purchase / donation of both..

 

[contricusc]

The systems you named are largely not designed, nor are they being regularly used to intercept drones. Those systems are imperative to protect Ukrainian cities, critical infrastructure and military sites from cruise missiles and ballistic missiles.

I know what those systems are designed for. My point is, Ukraine’s biggest problem right now is not the few ballistic missiles that Russia fires at them. Yes, they need to be able to defend from those too, but it is ridiculous that the bulk of the money spent on arming Ukraine goes to intercepting those few ballistic missiles, instead of going to offensive capabilities that are required in order to destroy Russia’s weapons factories, oil refineries, etc.

The problem with those high end anti air systems is the price tag. They are extremely expensive for the tiny role they play in the conflict. If the West is willing to spend that much money for Ukraine, and provide them with high end systems, they should focus that spending on offensive missiles, that can do a lot more damage to Russia and have a much greater influence on the war.

The West spent many billions of dollars on Pariots and their missiles for Ukraine, but were unwilling to provide the weapons to take down the Kerch bridge, which would have cost a fraction of that.

What bothers me is the missalocation of the resources. They consume the most money on the least important and most expensive systems.

Even when talking about air defence, Russia is now sending hundreds of drones daily, which cause the most casualties among the civilian population now. For that, you need cheap air defense systems in bulk. Two or three additional Patriots will not resolve anything, but cost a fortune.

 

[Soldier30]

Footage of strikes by Russian Kh-101 cruise missiles with cluster warheads in Chernivtsi. The missiles were presumably launched by Tu-95 and Tu-160 aircraft. The Kh-101 missile has a range of up to 5,500 km and a 400 kg warhead.

 

[Soldier30]

Footage of the destruction of Ukrainian drones, of an unknown type, by Russian Ka-52 helicopters. The location of the shooting is not reported.

 

[Woland]

US tells Switzerland its order of Patriots will be delayed as Ukraine gets priority. Meanwhile, the Swiss defense ministry has just said that it was informed by the US Department of State that its deliveries of Patriot missile systems will be delayed as a result of its decision to reprioritize deliveries to Ukraine.

The Swiss statement says that its five Patriot systems, ordered in 2022, were meant to be delivered between 2027 and 2028, but the US announcement means that they will be “affected by the new prioritization” and delayed further.

“It is currently unclear how many systems will be affected and whether the delivery of guided missiles will also be affected. No statement can be made at this stage regarding the exact timing and any further implications for Switzerland. Clarifications are ongoing,” the statement added.

Basically what this means is that the five Patriot systems in production that were supposed to go to Switzerland will be redirected to countries that provide theirs to Ukraine. Right now we know of the intention of Germany to send two of theirs, and that Norway is willing to pay for one system.

 

[Soldier30]

Footage of Russian Iskander-M missiles and Geran-2 drones striking a Ukrainian command post and launcher with the Lyuty UAV. The video was filmed near the village of Shostka, Sumy Oblast, Ukraine.

 

[Relic]

US tells Switzerland its order of Patriots will be delayed as Ukraine gets priority. Meanwhile, the Swiss defense ministry has just said that it was informed by the US Department of State that its deliveries of Patriot missile systems will be delayed as a result of its decision to reprioritize deliveries to Ukraine.

The Swiss statement says that its five Patriot systems, ordered in 2022, were meant to be delivered between 2027 and 2028, but the US announcement means that they will be “affected by the new prioritization” and delayed further.

“It is currently unclear how many systems will be affected and whether the delivery of guided missiles will also be affected. No statement can be made at this stage regarding the exact timing and any further implications for Switzerland. Clarifications are ongoing,” the statement added.

Basically what this means is that the five Patriot systems in production that were supposed to go to Switzerland will be redirected to countries that provide theirs to Ukraine. Right now we know of the intention of Germany to send two of theirs, and that Norway is willing to pay for one system.

It makes complete sense that Switzerland's 5 PAC 3 MSE batteries would be delayed. They're a neutral country that routinely delayed and / or vetoed the transfer of weapons to Ukraine because of Swiss ownership or components. It makes sense that they would be have delays imposed on the procurement of their systems in similar fashion. Seems like the right thing to do!

 

[Soldier30]

The first footage of combat work in Ukraine, the new Russian heavy self-propelled flamethrower TOS-3 "Dragon". TOS-3 "Dragon" is produced by "Omsktransmash", it was created on the chassis of the T-80BV tank, which provides 25% greater mobility compared to the TOS-1A "Solntsepek", based on the T-72 tank. The TOS-3 "Dragon" now has only 15 guides for launching missiles. The TOS-1 "Buratino" has 30 guides for missiles, the TOS-1A "Solntsepek" - 24, and the wheeled TOS-2 "Tosochka" has already made 18. Reducing the number of guides reduces the risk of detonation of ammunition when attacking drones. In the West, the TOS-3 fire system is compared in effectiveness to tactical nuclear weapons. The extended launch container allows the use of modernized thermobaric rockets TBS-3M at a range of up to 15 km. TOS-3 "Dragon" is equipped with additional protection, armor and electronic warfare equipment.

 

[FiReFTW]

It makes complete sense that Switzerland's 5 PAC 3 MSE batteries would be delayed. They're a neutral country that routinely delayed and / or vetoed the transfer of weapons to Ukraine because of Swiss ownership or components. It makes sense that they would be have delays imposed on the procurement of their systems in similar fashion. Seems like the right thing to do!

Switzerland is much more important than a corrupted ex soviet country of Ukraine, sad that so many are so blinded by their hate for Russia to not realize that.

The west is what matters, Europe is what matters.... not Ukraine, nobody from any of us has anything to do with Ukraine, its just a corrupt ex soviet country, its only because of this blind hatred towards Russia that Europe blindly supports it even tho its destroying its own economy and competitiveness with it, they are useless and st*pid, sadly.

 

[contricusc]

Switzerland is much more important than a corrupted ex soviet country of Ukraine, sad that so many are so blinded by their hate for Russia to not realize that.

Ukraine is bigger than Switzerland. It is more important in the long game.

Switzerland is a small vassal state of the EU, abiding by its regulations but without a seat at the table where decisions are made. It is surrounded by much more powerful countries and its army is useless, as it won’t fight any war, so it is natural to delay their Patriots, as they serve no purpose other than boosting sales of the US MIC.

The EU should actually tell Switzerland to buy EU made weapons, so that it boosts European economies, not the US.

The west is what matters, Europe is what matters.... not Ukraine

Anything West of Russia is Europe. Ukraine is West of Russia, it is European, and it matters.

nobody from any of us has anything to do with Ukraine, its just a corrupt ex soviet country, its only because of this blind hatred towards Russia that Europe blindly supports it even tho its destroying its own economy and competitiveness with it, they are useless and st*pid, sadly.

Ukraine is doing Europe a big favor by weakening Russia. We should support them more and thank them for their sacrifice. Also, when they will join the EU, they will be one of the bigger countries, and with a very strong military, so they will be one of the important members.

 

[Woland]

Switzerland is much more important than a corrupted ex soviet country of Ukraine, sad that so many are so blinded by their hate for Russia to not realize that.

The west is what matters, Europe is what matters.... not Ukraine, nobody from any of us has anything to do with Ukraine, its just a corrupt ex soviet country, its only because of this blind hatred towards Russia that Europe blindly supports it even tho its destroying its own economy and competitiveness with it, they are useless and st*pid, sadly.

An absurd, short-sighted take. Ukraine’s 800,000-strong army is the largest in Europe, the most experienced in modern warfare, and battle-hardened through 10 years of war with Russia. It is the most powerful land army in Europe, and would strengthen any alliance. With Ukraine on Europe's side, European countries are protected from a revanchist Russia while the US pivots its forces and resources from Europe to Asia.

However, if Ukraine falls or feels betrayed by Europe, history has important lessons. Italy fought with the allies in WWI, but after feeling cheated and betrayed at the Paris Peace Conference, fought with the axis powers in WWII. European countries that used to be fierce rivals are now allies, while Japan is an ally to the country that dropped two atomic bombs on it.

Russia’s recent history offers an even more dire warning. Of the three countries Putin invaded, two now have pro-Russian governments. During the First Chechen War (1994-1996), Chechnya was victorious. The war ended with Russia signing a treaty recognizing the Chechen government. In 1999, Russia invaded Chechnya again, this time successfully. Today, Chechens fill the ranks of the Russian army. Georgia was invaded by Russia in 2008, and parts of it continue to be under Russian occupation. And yet today, through propaganda, vote rigging, and the suppression of opposition, Georgia has a pro-Russian government.

The nightmare scenario would be the combined armies of Russia and Ukraine, the only two nations with experience in modern warfare, this time supplied by the industrial might of China, marching on Europe, while China invades Taiwan.

So by all means, if you want to risk Europe losing WWIII, abandon Ukraine while Switzerland gets Patriots it doesn't need. Instead of Ukraine being Europe's shield, Europe will have to drastically increase military spending to be able to stop Russia without either Ukraine or the US. The alternative, of course, is much cheaper and safer.

 

[Yasar_TR]

An absurd, short-sighted take.

I fully agree with everything you have written in your post. Ukraine needs to stay free and on the side of the West.

Switzerland is a small vassal state of the EU.
It is surrounded by much more powerful countries and its army is useless

However, Switzerland is not a weak country militarily. It’s geography is its best ally and feature against any potential invader.
Every able bodied man in Switzerland and any woman volunteers are in the armed services in Switzerland after the age of 18. They keep their guns and kit with them at home at all times until they are released from the armed services duties. Hence they are ready to join their units at short notice and they go in to train at certain intervals to refresh their capabilities.
Switzerland is a rich country and have a large military. They have over 900000+ personnel ready for active duty at short notice.

Swiss GDP is 880billion dollars. They annually spend 6.5 billion on defence.

Don‘t underestimate them. They don’t need EU or anybody to defend them.

They are however the most militarily neutral country in the world. They will not side with any country. And they will not attack any country. But that doesn’t mean they will not defend themselves.