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Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

FiReFTW

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Yes, Switzerland is part of Western Europe and it is very wealthy and beautiful, but aside from that, it has no strategic importance, as it is a landlocked neutral country. You didn’t join the EU despite being in the heart of Europe, so why should anyone prioritize your military needs when you are neutral, not part of NATO and not part of the EU?
You are not very well educated therefore you are speaking absolute nonsense.

1.Switzerland did apply for EU membership, but later it was withdrawn since on a referendum it was voted by the people against EU membership (By a narrow margin just so you stop speaking nonsense again), the UK is also not in the EU anymore after brexit which was also by a narrow margin, does that make them not important strategically and to Europe? What a bounch of cr*p.
Switzerland also despite not being an EU member is closely tied with the EU by many bilateral agrements and is almost like an EU member despite not being officialy in EU.
2.Switzerland does not join NATO because of its long term standing on neutrality and not participating in wars, and yet Switzerland cooperates with NATO in alot of peacekeeping operations and security operations so again it has very close ties with NATO.

You seriously have no clue about the things you speak


First of all, the foreign country you are talking about is a future EU country, so it is natural for Europe to care about it and help it overcome its problems. When it will join the EU, it will not be a foreign country anymore, but an EU member state, so more integrated than Switzerland.

As for European economy being sh*t because of the sanctions on Russia, this is just another big lie propagated by Putin’s propaganda. Europe’s economy has been stagnant since 2008, because of the very high bureocracy, high taxation, bad demographics, big governments as a percentage of the economy (bad resource allocation) and high debt burden. Europe’s economic problems are old and have nothing to do with the sanctions against Russia.
Its not an EU country as of this moment is it? So whether it will or not be is just speculation and has no bearing on the current reality. Ukraine has nothing to do with the EU and NATO as of this moment, no matter what you write or what potential future you are talking about here.

And yes, at least something you wrote has some truth to it, European economy has a wide range of problems and many of the problems you listed ar indeed responsible for that, however before the Ukranian war the European economy was in a much better shape and those are just facts and the reality of the situation, European economy was hit quite hard since the war, its only natural, denying it is ignorance.


And I can say the same about you. You don’t give a sh*t because you live in Switzerland, and are far from Ukraine. I am Romanian, and my country borders Ukraine, so I care a lot more than you do about this conflict. I don’t want my country to be neighbors with Russia. I want Ukraine and Moldova to join the EU and NATO and act as a buffer between my country and Russia. The fact that I live in another country doesn’t mean that I don’t go home often, and I still have family and friends at home, so of course I care about what happens in Europe.
Actually due to my job im abroad a lot and have stayed in a fair amount of EU countries for quite long times, and im not talking about weeks or 1-2 months here. So EU is extremely important for me on a very personal level, so I have alot to do with how the EU is and its economy, but nice try.
And while your little reasoning for your care about Ukraine since you are from Romania, go there alot, have family and friends there etc... has some validity, its negated by the fact that Romania is a member of the EU and NATO, so its completely safe from Russia.
Everybody with some common sense know that Russia simply will never attack a NATO country because it would get completely wiped out in a week and have no military left, any other reasoning and logic simply does not exist here, it is simply IMPOSSIBLE to ever happen, no matter how some people here try to paint it.


This is the only part where I agree with you. Europe should look for its own interests, and make sure Russia is crushed, so it can no longer pose a threat to Europe. Right now, Europe needs to push for more military spending and a stronger military, to deter its enemies and to defeat Russia.

Ukraine is helping us fight Russia without sending our own men to die, so we should be very grateful to them and help them more. Those Europeans who don’t want to help Ukraine are either misinformed or are just traitors. You choose which of the two categories you belong to.
Throwing labels on someone is not a very intelligent way to talk, but whatever you wish to do, I don't really care, you are just wrong period.
Russia will nevr be "crushed" or "destroyed" its just wishful thinking, Europe will need to find a way to coexist with Russia, those are just facts, anything else is delusion and ignorance.

What a great military strategy, to hope that war will never happen. And what if it happens? You want Europe to be caught with its pants down?


Wasting? So having a powerful military is wasting money? You do seem to be a traitor, since you want Europe to be weak and powerless, so that every big power can bully us. Look at the state of the world. The US is threatening with annexing Greenland from a European country, Russia is waging war against Ukraine and it is constantly threatening the Baltic states, which are part of NATO and the EU. Trump is saying that if Europe doesn’t spend more on its military, the US will not help it in case of war. And you want Europe to spend less on military?

Europe needs to get its sh*t together, and make a common EU military. It needs to boost its domestic MIC and stop relying on the US, which is an ally today, but it can become an enemy tomorrow. Look at how Trump is threatening a trade war with Europe. A trade war is basically economic war. You can’t rely for your defence on a country that is willing to wage economic war on you. It is insanity.
Russia will never attack NATO as stated before, they are not completely insane and they realize they would be completely wiped out.
And Europe having a decent military is not bad, I never said its bad, Europe already has a very strong military now, those are facts. But it is lacking in some areas thats true, should it improve them? Improve their military? Get stronger and more powerful? Sure... it makes sense, but throwing out 5% of GDP is just insane and absolutely st*pid in so many levels. You do realize that only a portion of the GDP is actually used and available for things like infastructure, medicine etc etc... so that 5% figure is actually more like 20-30% in terms of budget. its completely insane, Europe has many other priorities at the moment to improve to make it better for the people. 2.5-3% would be MORE THAN ENOUGH to ensure a very powerful military.

And Trump is insane, and will be out of the white house soon enough, he is absolutely crazy on every level and once he is gone things will be back to normal, the US was always a strong ally of Europe and we have ties that are impossible to sever.


You continue to regurgitate Putin’s propaganda insinuating that what keeps the war going is Europe and the US helping Ukraine, and that it would somehow be peace if the West just stopped helping. There is only one way to achieve peace, and that is to defeat Russia. As long as Russia can gain ground, it will continue the war. If we stop helping Ukraine, Russia will continue the war and won’t accept any peace proposal. They would continue to steal territory, and they will NEVER stop unless defeated on the battlefield.

If they conquer the entire of Ukraine, they will just open another front elsewhere, maybe in Kazakhstan, or maybe in the Baltics or Moldova. They are a dying empire with a war economy that cannot return to a normal peacetime economy. They have to fight until they lose. So the sooner they lose, the sooner we will have peace. Delaying help for Ukraine only prolongs the war.
This is just delusion upon delusion upon delusion, every war is ended by peace talks and peace terms and this one will be too, the sooner it happens the better, time to sit down and get a peace done, now, sacrifices will have to be made but thats life, but the war needs to end.
 

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Footage of strikes by Russian FPV drones, the Rubicon test center, on Ukrainian diesel locomotives used to transport military cargo. The locomotives were hit by drones near the village of Belozerske near Dobropolye in Donbas. This is approximately 27 km from the front line. The drone models are not reported. As a result of the drone attacks, some Ukrainian trains were derailed, the damaged equipment is shown at the end of the video.

 

contricusc

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1.Switzerland did apply for EU membership, but later it was withdrawn since on a referendum it was voted by the people against EU membership
2.Switzerland does not join NATO because of its long term standing on neutrality and not participating in wars, and yet Switzerland cooperates with NATO in alot of peacekeeping operations and security operations so again it has very close ties with NATO.

You seriously have no clue about the things you speak

You say I have no clue, but you just reinforce what I stated. Switzerland is not in the EU and NATO, that’s a fact. And it is by choice, not because it was not welcome. When you refuse to join the EU and NATO, you lose prioriy.

Its not an EU country as of this moment is it? So whether it will or not be is just speculation and has no bearing on the current reality. Ukraine has nothing to do with the EU and NATO as of this moment, no matter what you write or what potential future you are talking about here.

Ukraine has asked to join both the EU and NATO. Unlike Switzerland, which was allowed in but didn’t want to join, Ukraine has the will to join, but was still not accepted.

Ukrainians want to be in NATO and the EU, so of course we need to think about the future. Strategies ae about the future.

And yes, at least something you wrote has some truth to it, European economy has a wide range of problems and many of the problems you listed ar indeed responsible for that, however before the Ukranian war the European economy was in a much better shape and those are just facts and the reality of the situation, European economy was hit quite hard since the war, its only natural, denying it is ignorance.

Of course the war had a negative effect on the European economy, but it is a negligible effect compared to COVID for example, or to the systemic issues I mentioned.

You don’t give up on freedom and lose a war because of some negligible economic effects.

And while your little reasoning for your care about Ukraine since you are from Romania, go there alot, have family and friends there etc... has some validity, its negated by the fact that Romania is a member of the EU and NATO, so its completely safe from Russia.
Everybody with some common sense know that Russia simply will never attack a NATO country because it would get completely wiped out in a week and have no military left, any other reasoning and logic simply does not exist here, it is simply IMPOSSIBLE to ever happen, no matter how some people here try to paint it.

You are delusional and have no gasp of history. If you think a military alliance like NATO is a guarantee of safety against Russia, I have a bridge to sell you.

Look at how Trump is viewing NATO, and how he treats his European “allies”. Look at JD Vance’s stance on Europe or at Pete Hegseth. Are you that certain that they would let the US go to war with Russia to defend Estonia?

Also, the same people who think Russia will never attack a NATO member are the ones who thought Russia is not crazy to invade Ukraine.

Europe needs to be strong by itself, and not rely on the US for its defence. If Russia is allowed to conquer Ukraine, it will be emboldened to try to take more, and it would believe NATO is weak and won’t do anything if they go for Moldova or Estonia.

Russia will nevr be "crushed" or "destroyed" its just wishful thinking, Europe will need to find a way to coexist with Russia, those are just facts, anything else is delusion and ignorance.

If Russia would be defeated in Ukraine and its economy crippled by tougher sanctions and strikes on its industrial capaciy and oil refineries, it would collapse economically. This could lead to a revolution, or civil war, or separatist wars. The communist revolution came after Russia’s military failures in WW1.

If Russia’s military is weakened and humiliated while the economy collapses, this is a recipe for the disintegration of the Russian Empire into smaller states, which should be the goal of the EU, to esolve the Russian problem for the long term.

Also, the EU should try to force regime change in Belarus as well, in order to take that country as well from Russia’s hands.

A collapsing Russia may result in anarchy and chaos and another plutocratic regime like the one of Boris Yeltsin, which would be ideal for Europe as it would open possibilities like buying Kaliningrad and getting Russian resources on the cheap.

Russia will never attack NATO as stated before, they are not completely insane and they realize they would be completely wiped out.

The “not insane” thing was also invoked by those who said Russia will never invade Ukraine. How did that turn out?

Sure... it makes sense, but throwing out 5% of GDP is just insane and absolutely st*pid in so many levels. You do realize that only a portion of the GDP is actually used and available for things like infastructure, medicine etc etc... so that 5% figure is actually more like 20-30% in terms of budget. its completely insane, Europe has many other priorities at the moment to improve to make it better for the people. 2.5-3% would be MORE THAN ENOUGH to ensure a very powerful military.

While 5% is indeed a lot, it is not as much as you paint it to be. Most European countries have a government budget of around 35%-40% of GDP. So 5% of GDP means 12% to 15% of government expenditure.

European countries already have bloated government spending, and they spend a lot more on useless things like welfare programs, which do more harm than good.

While under normal circumstances 2-3% of GDP would be enough for defence, the current situation has urgency and Europe needs to catch up for years of underspending, and it needs to boost its MIC, and for this you need oversized spending for a few years.

And Trump is insane, and will be out of the white house soon enough, he is absolutely crazy on every level and once he is gone things will be back to normal, the US was always a strong ally of Europe and we have ties that are impossible to sever.

Again, basing your military strategy on hope and wishful thinking is not smart. Your whole strategy is based on two hopes: that Russia is not insane to attack NATO, and that Trump will be out soon and the US will go back to how it was before.

When planning your military strategy, you plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

This is just delusion upon delusion upon delusion, every war is ended by peace talks and peace terms and this one will be too, the sooner it happens the better, time to sit down and get a peace done, now, sacrifices will have to be made but thats life, but the war needs to end.

And those peace talks must happen with a collapsed Russia that is willing to make huge concessions because of its precarious position. As long as Russia is not in a very bad position, there should be no talk with it.

Negotiations should start when Russia is willing to give up on all its gains just to stop the war and avoid further losses.

They must lose Crimea after this war, so that they will understand that it was a big mistake to invade Ukraine, and their territory should end up smaller than before the invasion.

Allowing Russia to gain any territory by starting this war is a recipe for future war. You don’t understand Russia if you think otherwise.
 
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FiReFTW

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You say I have no clue, but you just reinforce what I stated. Switzerland is not in the EU and NATO, that’s a fact. And it is by choice, not because it was not welcome. When you refuse to join the EU and NATO, you lose prioriy.



Ukraine has asked to join both the EU and NATO. Unlike Switzerland, which was allowed in but didn’t want to join, Ukraine has the will to join, but was still not accepted.

Ukrainians want to be in NATO and the EU, so of course we need to think about the future. Strategies ae about the future.



Of course the war had a negative effect on the European economy, but it is a negligible effect compared to COVID for example, or to the systemic issues I mentioned.

You don’t give up on freedom and lose a war because of some negligible economic effects.



You are delusional and have no gasp of history. If you think a military alliance like NATO is a guarantee of safety against Russia, I have a bridge to sell you.

Look at how Trump is viewing NATO, and how he treats his European “allies”. Look at JD Vance’s stance on Europe or at Pete Hegseth. Are you that certain that they would let the US go to war with Russia to defend Estonia?

Also, the same people who think Russia will never attack a NATO member are the ones who thought Russia is not crazy to invade Ukraine.

Europe needs to be strong by itself, and not rely on the US for its defence. If Russia is allowed to conquer Ukraine, it will be emboldened to try to take more, and it would believe NATO is weak and won’t do anything if they go for Moldova or Estonia.



If Russia would be defeated in Ukraine and its economy crippled by tougher sanctions and strikes on its industrial capaciy and oil refineries, it would collapse economically. This could lead to a revolution, or civil war, or separatist wars. The communist revolution came after Russia’s military failures in WW1.

If Russia’s military is weakened and humiliated while the economy collapses, this is a recipe for the disintegration of the Russian Empire into smaller states, which should be the goal of the EU, to esolve the Russian problem for the long term.

Also, the EU should try to force regime change in Belarus as well, in order to take that country as well from Russia’s hands.

A collapsing Russia may result in anarchy and chaos and another plutocratic regime like the one of Boris Yeltsin, which would be ideal for Europe as it would open possibilities like buying Kaliningrad and getting Russian resources on the cheap.



The “not insane” thing was also invoked by those who said Russia will never invade Ukraine. How did that turn out?



While 5% is indeed a lot, it is not as much as you paint it to be. Most European countries have a government budget of around 35%-40% of GDP. So 5% of GDP means 12% to 15% of government expenditure.

European countries already have bloated government spending, and they spend a lot more on useless things like welfare programs, which do more harm than good.

While under normal circumstances 2-3% of GDP would be enough for defence, the current situation has urgency and Europe needs to catch up for years of underspending, and it needs to boost its MIC, and for this you need oversized spending for a few years.



Again, basing your military strategy on hope and wishful thinking is not smart. Your whole strategy is based on two hopes: that Russia is not insane to attack NATO, and that Trump will be out soon and the US will go back to how it was before.

When planning your military strategy, you plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Si vis pacem, para bellum.



And those peace talks must happen with a collapsed Russia that is willing to make huge concessions because of its precarious position. As long as Russia is not in a very bad position, there should be no talk with it.

Negotiations should start when Russia is willing to give up on all its gains just to stop the war and avoid further losses.

They must lose Crimea after this war, so that they will understand that it was a big mistake to invade Ukraine, and their territory should end up smaller than before the invasion.

Allowing Russia to gain any territory by starting this war is a recipe for future war. You don’t understand Russia if you think otherwise.
Well I think I will skip from commenting on your post because it makes no sense.
You have a completely different view on pretty much everything so it's pointless because it will just go on forever back in fort.

But whether you like it or not, war is bad for the people dying there, it's bad for the people here in Europe economically, it's bad for business it's just bad.
So it's better for everyone if this war ends as soon as possible and hopefully it does, it can't come soon enough.

And btw I promise you that the majority of people in Europe think like me, in Spain in Italy in France in Germany in Switzerland etc...

But I know the majority of people in eastern countries like the Baltics, Poland, Romania think otherwise because of a deep seeded hatred for Russia, I can understand that.
 

contricusc

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But whether you like it or not, war is bad for the people dying there, it's bad for the people here in Europe economically, it's bad for business it's just bad.
So it's better for everyone if this war ends as soon as possible and hopefully it does, it can't come soon enough.

Yes, war is bad. Who knew that? Well, everyone except Putin and Netanyahu…

And btw I promise you that the majority of people in Europe think like me, in Spain in Italy in France in Germany in Switzerland etc...

But I know the majority of people in eastern countries like the Baltics, Poland, Romania think otherwise because of a deep seeded hatred for Russia, I can understand that.

Unfortunately people in Western Europe don’t know Russia the way people from Eastern Europe know it, and you don’t feel threatened because you are far away and the Russians never reached your lands.

But you should listen to those who had first hand experience with Russia and their evil empire, and learn. Isn’t it strange that all countries near Russia have a “deep seeded hatred for Russia”? Maybe we’re not all crazy, and there is actually something deeply wrong with Russia, and they are a great danger to Europe.

Western Europeans should listen to those with more experience in matters related to Russia. I’d say the Baltic states and the Ukrainians understand Russia better than anyone else. That’s why they hate it the most.
 

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Footage of strikes by Russian Geran-2 drones on the Ukrainian 36D6 radar. The 36D6 all-round radar was developed in the USSR and is intended for use in the S-300 air defense systems and other models. The 36D6-M radar is capable of determining the nationality of an air object, automatically tracking targets, and can operate in autonomous control center mode. The video was filmed near the village of Borzna in the Chernihiv region of Ukraine. As a result of strikes by Geran-2 drones with an optical guidance system, the Ukrainian 36D6 radar and escort vehicle were destroyed.

 

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Ukrainian servicemen showed footage of an attack on a Ukrainian pickup truck in Pokrovsk by a Russian sabotage and reconnaissance group, the "Center" group of troops. In the video in Pokrovsk, a Ukrainian pickup truck moves along Shevchenko Street, towards Zashchitnikov Ukrainy Street, before reaching the intersection, the pickup truck is ambushed. As a result of the ambush, the Ukrainian driver was wounded and a serviceman in the back of the pickup truck was killed. The reason for the breakthrough of Russian sabotage groups is the lack of soldiers in the Ukrainian brigades in Pokrovsk. Later, the pickup truck was attacked by a drone, as shown at the end of the video.

 

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Footage of a Russian column of armored vehicles breaking through to a Ukrainian brick factory in Malaya Tokmachka, Zaporizhia Oblast. Due to the long range of the footage, it was not possible to determine the type of armored vehicles, but all of them are equipped with Mangal-type protection. The video shows that the vehicles are being attacked by Ukrainian drones, and anti-tank mines are also visible. Judging by the video, one armored vehicle was damaged by a drone and troops dismounted from it. After field repairs, the armored vehicle left the battlefield on its own. The video is shortened, showing active moments of the battle, no details.

 

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USA 🇺🇸 and Germany 🇩🇪 have officially reached a deal to send 5 additional Patriot Air Defense Batteries to Ukraine. Norway 🇳🇴 will also be involved in the deal and will finance one of the Batteries in the deal. It appears that the remaining four will be financed by Germany, who will send some of their exisiting systems and backfill them with new systems produced in the U.S., which will be delivered later this year.

 

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The first high-quality footage of strikes by new Russian kamikaze drones "Harpia-A1" on a group of Ukrainian equipment, the 104th separate territorial defense brigade of the Ukrainian army. The video was filmed near the village of Orlovka in the Sumy region of Ukraine. The Harpia-A1 UAV has a similar design to the Geran-2 UAV, presumably, it surpasses it in technical characteristics.
The Harpia-A1 UAV is equipped with optical-electronic sensors that ensure effective target recognition even in conditions of strong electronic interference.
There is no technical information about the drone yet.

 

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The first use of the Russian kamikaze drone "Italmas" in Ukraine has been recorded. A resident of the city of Sumy in northern Ukraine managed to film the drone "Italmas". That day, the city of Sumy was also attacked by drones "Geran". There was no information about the drones "Italmas" for two years

 

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USA 🇺🇸 has agreed to sell Ukraine $322 million usd worth of military supplies. The package consists of the following...

- $150 million usd worth of spare parts, maintenance and munitions for Bradley IFVs.

- $172 million usd worth of HAWK air defense systems, spare parts, maintenance and interceptor missiles.


 

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Servicemen of the Russian special forces unit "Vega", the 24th separate special forces brigade, showed a captured Ukrainian armored vehicle BMC Kirpi. BMC Kirpi armored vehicles are manufactured in Turkey. The Kirpi armored vehicle was attacked by a Russian drone, deep in the Ukrainian rear. The driver turned the steering wheel sharply and the armored vehicle flipped over, after which it was abandoned. When the front line reached this place, the car was evacuated by Russian units. As it turned out, the BMC Kirpi armored vehicle was in good working order. The video was filmed in the Pokrovsk direction. Despite the good reviews of the BMC Kirpi, servicemen rated the American armored personnel carrier International MaxxPro and the Ukrainian "Kozak" higher.

 

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Footage of a Russian FPV drone strike on a Ukrainian SOC-R boat. The boat was presumably used by servicemen of the 144th Center of Special Operations Forces of Ukraine. The SOC-R boat was developed in the United States by order of the Special Operations Forces. Typically, the boat is armed with a 12.7-mm M2HB Browning machine gun or a 7.62-mm M240 machine gun, and an Mk19 grenade launcher can be installed. The boat has optical-electronic sensors, as well as communication and navigation antennas. The boat is aluminum and can carry up to 8 people. As a result of the drone strike, the boat was destroyed.

 

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US approves $330 million sale of weaponry- maintenance of M109s and air defenses

1. M109 Self-Propelled Howitzer Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul Capability

The Government of Ukraine has requested to buy equipment and services for the refurbishment of M109 self-propelled howitzers, technical assistance, training, publications, and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $150 million.

2. Air Defense Sustainment

The Government of Ukraine has requested to buy equipment and services to support the training, sustainment, and refurbishment measures of existing U.S.-origin air defense systems. The following non-MDE items will be included: major modifications and maintenance support; spare parts, consumables and accessories, and repair and return support; personnel training and training equipment; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $180 million.
 

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US approves $330 million sale of weaponry- maintenance of M109s and air defenses

1. M109 Self-Propelled Howitzer Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul Capability

The Government of Ukraine has requested to buy equipment and services for the refurbishment of M109 self-propelled howitzers, technical assistance, training, publications, and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $150 million.

2. Air Defense Sustainment

The Government of Ukraine has requested to buy equipment and services to support the training, sustainment, and refurbishment measures of existing U.S.-origin air defense systems. The following non-MDE items will be included: major modifications and maintenance support; spare parts, consumables and accessories, and repair and return support; personnel training and training equipment; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated total cost is $180 million.
Second package in 2 days, totaling $650 million usd. Europe is going tonhelp pay for these packages and Ukraine will allocate funds from the $50 Billion usd loan to purchase weapons on their own.

It only makes sense that U.S. would sell Ukraine directly, and through Europe, billions of dollars worth of weapons, spare parts and maintenance. They literally ramped up huge segments of the their militarybindustrial complex in order to supply Ukraine and backfill European inventories through sales... Given that Putin has no desire to negotiate anything reasonable, the U.S. ought to turn the weapons tap on "full" and at least profit out of killing Russians.

It's really the most sensible thing to do.
 

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the U.S. ought to turn the weapons tap on "full" and at least profit out of killing Russians.

“Communist” Russians die for the motherland while “Capitalist” Americans make a profit. This is how things were always supposed to happen.
 

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An episode of combat use in Ukraine of a Russian FPV drone, presumably armed with an RPG-18. In the video, the drone fires an RPG at a Ukrainian stronghold located in a forest belt. The drone model is not reported. It is worth noting that the Ukrainian army has previously shown similar drones.

 
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