Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[Van Kravchenko]

View attachment 40787


Erdogan met with Israel PM

Is this hallal ?

 

[Umigami]

Well apparently most lecturers in Indonesia are also pro-Russia, so the Hikma guy case is not an isolated example.

I can somewhat explain the reason behind such attitude: 1. Russia is generally more popular among Indonesians, so there is a tendency to support Russia, 2. Russian Invasion reminds us of the East Timor invasion, in which the Russian situation is similar to that of Indonesia.

What Russia did to Ukraine is similar who what we did in East Timor, we invade them "out of necessity". Even if officials agree that Russia's invasion is unjustified, condemning Russia openly will also make us look hypocritical. That is why at first our officials were in dilemma and slow to support Ukraine, probably trying to be neutral at first. It's because if Russia's military initiative cannot be morally defended, so do ours in East Timor and Papua.

why put papua into this?!

 

[Umigami]

Is this hallal ?

Buat paduka Erdogan ya otomatis halal lah...

 

[HellFireIndo]

Papua? East Timor? Papua is ex Dutch Colonial territory and they are rightfully ours and had been recognized by the UN itself. Papua is not a question anymore you should weighing it into your minds

East Timor? We are in our conscience and in full awareness recognized they are being invaded and incorporated into our territory by illegal way, then we are got severe backlash after that and in return offered them with referendum in which East Timor got their independence. AND THEY ARE ALREADY IN THE PAST. And Indonesian government already regret about the invasion

To Made lenient reaction toward Russian invasion today would opened a more terrifying Pandora box in near future. Countries with very large economies and military power such as USA, France, UK Saudi, India and China would have more confidence to invaded other countries and justified it according to their own agenda

Well, there is still some country and groups that disputed our sovereignty over Papua. Of course, the same person who accuses us of "genocide" in Papua. Diplomacy and military affairs are filled with ridiculous claims and justification, it can be like Ukraine with Crimea, a sovereign country being cut down little by little.

East Timor case is a lesson same as the Ukraine case. Whether or not we "regret" now, it did happen and it happened for a reason. So that in the future we will be fully aware of the consequence of an invasion, because even back then only a few could predict invasion by Indonesia to East Timor. Both as a potential defender or attacker in an invasion, we should take lessons from all that happened so far.

I would argue that actually, our stance doesn't really matter in the Ukraine v Russia case, it could count as a regional conflict that may not necessarily drag global stability that much. It may even potentially deters any consideration of an invasion by a country. Because the Russians show that even if they win, the cost and risk of an invasion are high. This case only highlights a stronger political incentive to invade, but an invasion is nevertheless still militarily and economically very risky.

I personally don't think an invasion in itself could spark an interest in other countries to invade as well. I mean the US has invaded several countries in the past decades, but we don't see how that motivates others to invade, quite the contrary in fact. But at least, if they do invade, it will be in the manner of the Russian: Invade only the countries formerly under their political control, in an attempt to reincorporate them. We can guess the limit of possibility there.

 

[Madokafc]

Well i would not argue against person who being delusional enough to said Indonesian can have a chance in full blown conflict against China today, i am would prefer to become a fearmongering person who he had accused me to be, and still doing my way to push Indonesian military modernization harder including not only the hardware but training, human resource education and management including fighting against corruption.

Realpolitics is real and true, only hard power can save this country against would be enemies trying to invade this country or deter them to do so. Instead saying what happened to Russian today would deter other Countries to do so against us.

 

[Lordimperator]

Buat paduka Erdogan ya otomatis halal lah...

Kaum idolnya berima g ya?

 

[HellFireIndo]

Well i would not argue against person who being delusional enough to said Indonesian can have a chance in full blown conflict against China today, i am would prefer to become a fearmongering person who he had accused me to be, and still doing my way to push Indonesian military modernization harder including not only the hardware but training, human resource education and management including fighting against corruption.

Realpolitics is real and true, only hard power can save this country against would be enemies trying to invade this country or deter them to do so. Instead saying what happened to Russian today would deter other Countries to do so against us.

Well, it appears that someone misrepresents my point. I literally advocated for massive reforms, modernization, and budget increase. Also the point regarding that I " said Indonesian can have a chance in full-blown conflict against China today" is a pure lie, I never said "full-blown", and "today" in my arguments.

C'mon, I always fairly use others' arguments in what they actually say in their own words, without misrepresenting them, even though I disagree. But people use lies and misquotes to try to diminish the value of my argument, I think that's not honest behavior.

Like someone thinks I do not advocate for modernization and expansion of military capability? seriously? quite the contrary! Even the points about realpolitik, bruh I am literally schooled in this stuff, all of my educators were realpolitik dudes it kind of scares me. It appears that it is the other party who does not really understand what "realpolitik" means.

 

[FPXAllen]

Well i would not argue against person who being delusional enough to said Indonesian can have a chance in full blown conflict against China today, i am would prefer to become a fearmongering person who he had accused me to be, and still doing my way to push Indonesian military modernization harder including not only the hardware but training, human resource education and management including fighting against corruption.

Realpolitics is real and true, only hard power can save this country against would be enemies trying to invade this country or deter them to do so. Instead saying what happened to Russian today would deter other Countries to do so against us.

Well, it appears that someone misrepresents my point. I literally advocated for massive reforms, modernization, and budget increase. Also the point regarding that I " said Indonesian can have a chance in full-blown conflict against China today" is a pure lie, I never said "full-blown", and "today" in my arguments.

C'mon, I always fairly use others' arguments in what they actually say in their own words, without misrepresenting them, even though I disagree. But people use lies and misquotes to try to diminish the value of my argument, I think that's not honest behavior.

Like someone thinks I do not advocate for modernization and expansion of military capability? seriously? quite the contrary! Even the points about realpolitik, bruh I am literally schooled in this stuff, all of my educators were realpolitik dudes it kind of scares me. It appears that it is the other party who does not really understand what "realpolitik" means.

I don't know if you both realilzed this, but this is actually much like taking two different roads to Rome. Both of you agree that our military modernization and expansion is long overdue and needs all the push it can get to achieve at least a partial parity against other powerful nations in this region.

@Madokafc decided to take a look at our current condition and determined that we'll never have a chance if we're getting ouselves involved in a full scale war against China today*. He/she then argues for a vast increase in our nation's military capability and expansion to be achieved as soon as possible which also include cleaning up the mucks called corruption which have become our "daily life" for decades.

(*I personally think otherwise though - not in the sense of 'muscle vs muscle', of course, but suffice to say that we still have some potentials that we have always overlooked and taken for granted for the past two decades to tip the balance even if it's just a little bit.)

However, in @HellFireIndo perspective, I think that he/she realized that those potentials do exist and should be urgently utilized although by no mean that we can leisurely take our time in modernizing and expanding our military. By running these two (urgently utilizing our latent potentials and military modernization and expansion) in parallel, we can achieve that partial parity much sooner than later.

Due to English is not our first or probably even second or third language, there may be some things that are lost to translation which were causing misunderstanding. But still, from the way I see it, you both actually have one common goal "to fill the glass". It's just one currently sees it as "half full" while the other sees it as "half empty".

 

[Umigami]

Kaum idolnya berima g ya?

They'll just swipe it under the rug, gak sejalan sama tujuan politik.

 

[R4duga]

it was reported that one of the PLAN naval aviation xian Y-8 Maritime patrol has plunged/crashed into south china sea (the taiwanese probably monitoring it) though the PRC authorities trying to cover it up with "military training" exercise near the crash site.

Taiwan confirms Chinese military plane crashed into South China Sea | Taiwan News | 2022-03-10 14:08:00

China reportedly uses 'military drills' to cover up search for missing Y-8 | 2022-03-10 14:08:00

www.taiwannews.com.tw

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1500478918432018432

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501774216093310976

 

[NEKO]

Apakah SU-57 Rusia dipakai di Ukraina?

 

[Umigami]

Apakah SU-57 Rusia dipakai di Ukraina?

I don't know, it's not like Russian really need it anyway.

 

[NEKO]

I don't know, it's not like Russian really need it anyway.

Or they are not confident enough with its stealth capability to use it in Ukraine.

 

[Umigami]

Or they are not confident enough with its stealth capability to use it in Ukraine.

Why they need stealth?
Ukrainian Fighter are archaic.

 

[NEKO]

Why they need stealth?
Ukrainian Fighter are archaic.

Ground radar, SAM, fighter.

 

[Umigami]

Ground radar, SAM, fighter.

Fighter: probably aren't much left now
SAM: only manpads, their s300 are questionable.
G radar: ???

But yeah, even US die deploy their F35 to Afghanistan so you got a point.

 

[Mejikuhibiu]

𝗟𝗔𝗣𝗢𝗥𝗔𝗡: 𝗨𝗡𝗧𝗨𝗞 𝗢𝗥𝗔𝗡𝗚 𝗬𝗔𝗡𝗚 𝗧𝗜𝗗𝗔𝗞 𝗧𝗔𝗛𝗨 𝗔𝗣𝗔 𝗬𝗔𝗡𝗚 𝗧𝗘𝗥𝗝𝗔𝗗𝗜 𝗔𝗡𝗧𝗔𝗥𝗔 𝗥𝗨𝗦𝗜𝗔 𝗗𝗔𝗡 𝗨𝗞𝗥𝗔𝗜𝗡𝗔

Laporan fakta:

1) Pasukan Ukraina bernuansa neo-Nazi, asal muasal kudeta, setiap hari membunuh warga Rusia di Donbass sejak 2014; dunia barat, PBB dan media tradisional diam.

2) Rusia meminta jaminan hukum, tidak ada tanggapan.

3) NATO, USA dan EU membiayai Ukraina dengan impunitas, dan PBB diam.

4) Rusia meminta Ukraina untuk berkomitmen menghormati perjanjian Minsk 1 dan 2, dan berhenti menyerang Rusia di Donbass; Ukraina mengabaikannya. Prancis dan Jerman tetap diam.

5) Rusia meminta agar NATO tidak memperluas perbatasannya, dan tidak bergabung dengan Ukraina atau Georgia. Eropa menjawab bahwa mereka memiliki hak untuk melakukan apapun yang mereka inginkan. Mereka tidak menanggapi jaminan hukum yang disepakati Rusia dengan AS pada awal 1990-an.

6) Sementara AS mengirim lebih dari 300 ton senjata ke Ukraina dan miliaran dolar ke angkatan bersenjata Ukraina, terus-menerus mengancam Rusia dengan sanksi.

7) Pada tahun 2020 dan 2021, sebuah resolusi yang mengutuk Nazisme, neo-Nazisme, dan Fasisme dalam segala bentuknya disahkan di Perserikatan Bangsa-Bangsa. AS dan Ukraina memberikan suara menentang. Hampir seluruh Eropa abstain. PBB diam.

Kesimpulannya, mereka menutup semua opsi diplomatik ke Rusia, mengabaikan semua permintaan hukumnya dan melupakan warga sipil Donbass yang berbahasa Rusia. Sekarang Putin mengambil tindakan sendiri dengan fait ac.

Coba sedikit mikir yuk. Ada apa di balik semua ini. Jangan hanya latah mengecam keputusan Vladimir Putin.

Sedangkan AS dan sekutunya membangun laboratorium senjata biologi di Ukraina dan sementara Ukraina menyatakan ingin bergabung dengan NATO. Laboratorium2 itu adalah seperti laboratorium di Wuhan yang diduga mengembangkan virus Wuhan sebagaimana terungkap dalam email di laptop Fauci yang disita dan dibocorkan. Wajar jika Putin mengambil tindakan tegas mengakhiri ancaman itu bagi rakyatnya dan juga bagi Dunia.

Jangan lupa sejarah bahwa sekutu adalah "musuh" bebuyutan Bung Karno. Sekutu adalah kelompok penjajahan dengan wilayah kolonialisme tersebar di seluruh dunia. Bung Karno pernah keluar dari keanggotaan PBB karena prinsipnya atas kemerdekaan dan kedaulatan yang menjadi hak setiap rakyat dari bangsa-bangsa.

Namun perlu diingat pula bahwa pasukan sekutu adalah lebih dimanfaatkan oleh para elit pedagang yang mengendalikan para pemimpin korup dan serakah. Pahami bahwa pihak yang menjajah Indonesia adalah VOC (Armada Dagang/perkumpulan para pedagang).

Apa yang disebut Neokolonialisme oleh Bung Karno adalah organisasi perdagangan global yang mengatur tata perdagangan Dunia. Para pemimpin negara-negara tidak lebih hanyalah kepanjangan tangan para elit global ini untuk membuat aturan-aturan hukum lokal guna memfasilitasi perdagangan para elit tersebut yang dikenal dengan kaum "kapitalis".

Ada banyak kepentingan para elit kapitalis ini di Ukraina. Bahwa Ukraina ingin bergabung dengan NATO merupakan petunjuk mengenai lapisan-lapisan misteri di balik konflik dan serangan Rusia ke Ukraina. Riwayat panjang konflik Putin dengan para presiden AS sejak Clinton dan Obama menggambarkan kepentingan kapitalis atas wilayah yang menghubungkan Eropa dengan Rusia yang kaya sumber alam yang diperlukan para kapitalis global.

Oleh karena itu jangan tertipu oleh narasi-narasi berita yang dibangun media utama yang bekerja untuk kepentingan para pemiliknya yang juga bagian dr kelompok kapitalis. Arahnya jelas menyalahkan Putin sebagai ancaman perang Dunia, sementara sesungguhnya para kapitalis itulah yang sebenarnya sejak lama mengusik kedaulatan Rusia.

Banyak narasi dan video berita yang sifatnya manipulatif untuk mempengaruhi opini publik dan masyarakat Dunia agar bersama-sama menyalahkan dan memusuhi Rusia.

Perhatikan juga sensor ketat terhadap informasi-informasi alternatif yang memberikan pandangan berbeda untuk menutupi fakta sebenarnya tentang kepentingan strategis para elit kapitalis dengan menghapus dan melabelinya sebagai hoaks.

Perlu diketahui bahwa perang Dunia ketiga lebih kepada berupa perang informasi dan perang psikologi dari pada perang fisik dengan bom. Info mengatakan bahwa Rusia telah mengosongkan para penduduk sipil dari wilayah gempuran dan video berita media utama tentang korban sipil lebih berupa manipulasi dan dengan tehnik CGI (Computer-Generated Imagery yg merupakan mode pencitraan yang dihasilkan komputer/pencitraan hasil komputerisasi.)

*Peace and Love, Not War ❤*

"Anonimus"

[Silahkan bagikan dengan cara copy paste]
Dapat dr grup wa bapak bapak komplek..
Cuma bisa senyum aja ud..

 

[NEKO]

Sedangkan AS dan sekutunya membangun laboratorium senjata biologi di Ukraina

Wooo

kemerdekaan dan kedaulatan yang menjadi hak setiap rakyat dari bangsa-bangsa.

La trus nginvasi ukraina?

Banyak narasi dan video berita yang sifatnya manipulatif untuk mempengaruhi opini publik dan masyarakat Dunia agar bersama-sama menyalahkan dan memusuhi Rusia.

La ini juga narasi odong2, untuk mempengaruhi opini emak2 dan bapak2.


Tepok jidat, keknya banyak yang kena bait sama ni narasi odong2.

 

[HellFireIndo]

Or they are not confident enough with its stealth capability to use it in Ukraine.

They only have 12 of them, and are probably not combat ready.

 

[schuimpjes]

Sedangkan AS dan sekutunya membangun laboratorium senjata biologi di Ukraina

Operation Denver : “My son just born”

sementara Ukraina menyatakan ingin bergabung dengan NATO.

Their system is democracy. Blame the people, the people want this government now to be like that. If the people don’t like the government, then just change the government next time democratically. Democracy open for change.

Still not enough, then gather likeminded people and make a legal party. About you win or not, back to the people again.

Laboratorium2 itu adalah seperti laboratorium di Wuhan yang diduga mengembangkan virus Wuhan sebagaimana terungkap dalam email di laptop Fauci yang disita dan dibocorkan.

Someone who wrote this must be a gung ho Trumpist.

Para pemimpin negara-negara tidak lebih hanyalah kepanjangan tangan para elit global ini untuk membuat aturan-aturan hukum lokal guna memfasilitasi perdagangan para elit tersebut yang dikenal dengan kaum "kapitalis".

Add words “Judeo-Masonic” there, for the sake of reminiscing Operation SIG.