Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[Madokafc]

How about trying project eldest son?
Put extra explosive in the bullet that will explode in the barrel, destroying the gun and potentially injuring the person wielding the gun, or just put satellite tracker to gain more information about them (secret hideouts, accomplices, rally point etc), later we can just raid them.
We can let them have the modified bullet via "oknum" or spy that sell it to them.

Worth to try or they already trying it out?

Greater Nusantara Empire when?

With Malaysia and Philippines?

Philippines have MDT with the US. Meanwhile Malaysia had Defense treaty with Commonwealth nation especially UK and Australia. Is Maphilindo still inherited the treaty or not?

And how Singapore position then? as they would likely taking this issue seriously. If they are joint the union it would be better.

 

[Madokafc]

now you've mentioned it, i wonder if our steel industry able to produce such metal for military purpose...

Indonesia doesn't have Wolframite or Tungsten mineral deposit though, in the region we imported them from China and Vietnam

 

[R4duga]

Indonesia doesn't have Wolframite or Tungsten mineral deposit though, in the region we imported them from China and Vietnam

so it was almost impossible for us to have a self sufficient resource to provide said tungsten slug/penetrator manufacture ?

is there any abundant dense material in indonesia that can replace tungsten/wolfram ?

 

[R4duga]

STM Kargu, a special quadrotor explosive delivery for KKB/OPM.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1508435405208707077

 

[Madokafc]

so it was almost impossible for us to have a self sufficient resource to provide said tungsten slug/penetrator manufacture ?

is there any abundant dense material in indonesia that can replace tungsten/wolfram ?

Unfortunately, Indonesia don't have much natural reserve mineral in platinum, titanium, vanadium and so on.... We can only get them by processing imported raw material or by products of some industrial activity....

And you know, China and Russia is indeed being blessed with abundance of such mineral

 

[Lordimperator]

STM Kargu, a special quadrotor explosive delivery for KKB/OPM.

Did they get model kit?

 

[Nilgiri]

so it was almost impossible for us to have a self sufficient resource to provide said tungsten slug/penetrator manufacture ?

is there any abundant dense material in indonesia that can replace tungsten/wolfram ?

Import and stockpile what you need to.

The more critical thing to develop is the manufacturing ability to process it into the relevant product.

 

[Madokafc]

Import and stockpile what you need to.

The more critical thing to develop is the manufacturing ability to process it into the relevant product.

There is surge in capability to process and manufacturing transition metal material in Indonesia since at least Ten years ago.

If you are worry about steady supply from China and Russia, such mineral can be sourced from South America, US, Australia and Africa (in which China and some European countries are deeply involved in mining conflict there).

Australian mineral facts

Australia is one of the top mineral producers in the world.

www.ga.gov.au

 

[Lordimperator]

US$ 15 bil for 88 f35,

Canada picks the F-35 in fighter replacement competition

Canada plans to buy 88 new fighter jets to replace its CF-18s.

www.defensenews.com

Gripen KO lagi dah

 

[Umigami]

Indonesia's Pertamina considers buying crude from Russia -CEO

Indonesian state energy firm PT Pertamina (PERTM.UL) is considering buying crude oil from Russia as it seeks oil for a newly revamped refinery, chief executive officer Nicke Widyawati said on Monday.

www.reuters.com

Pertamina Ingin Beli Minyak dari Rusia

Direktur Utama PT Pertamina (Persero) Nicke Widyawati mengungkapkan harga minyak dari Rusia murah di tengah rentetan sanksi Barat atas invasi ke Ukraina.

www.cnnindonesia.com

Mungkin masih bisa karena buat sekarang masih ada celah yg dikasih barat karena mereka juga masih beli dari Rusia, tapi kedepannya?

 

[Madokafc]

Indonesia's Pertamina considers buying crude from Russia -CEO

Indonesian state energy firm PT Pertamina (PERTM.UL) is considering buying crude oil from Russia as it seeks oil for a newly revamped refinery, chief executive officer Nicke Widyawati said on Monday.

www.reuters.com

Pertamina Ingin Beli Minyak dari Rusia

Direktur Utama PT Pertamina (Persero) Nicke Widyawati mengungkapkan harga minyak dari Rusia murah di tengah rentetan sanksi Barat atas invasi ke Ukraina.

www.cnnindonesia.com

Mungkin masih bisa karena buat sekarang masih ada celah yg dikasih barat karena mereka juga masih beli dari Rusia, tapi kedepannya?

Wait until the fight ended....and how peace concluded. Don't fish in trouble water

 

[HellFireIndo]

Holy sheet. What a shit show.

0 situational awareness. 0 personnel keeping watch outside the armored vehicle.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/tq8ppw

Cri in sympathizing with Aidar is even worse, these guys are Neo Nazis yo. Those westerners on r/ CombatFootage be supporting Nazis as long as they kill Russians.

 

[Madokafc]

Cri in sympathizing with Aidar is even worse, these guys are Neo Nazis yo. Those westerners on r/ CombatFootage be supporting Nazis as long as they kill Russians.

They are not Neo Nazi, but anarchist and coming from Radical Party of Ukraine. They had been disbanded because of war crime and criminal acts in 2015, and reintroduced again in 2016.

 

[HellFireIndo]

They are not Neo Nazi, but anarchist and coming from Radical Party of Ukraine. They had been disbanded because of war crime and criminal acts in 2015, and reintroduced again in 2016.

And then incorporated into the Ukraine national guard, alongside groups like Azov and Right Sector. Anyway, they are all radical militias, yet also a part of the official armed force of Ukraine, which is a red flag for anyone with common sense. But westerner will still naively supports them anyway just because they fight Russia.

I mean imagine them as a sort of Ukrainian version of Angkatan Kelima, that sh*t sounds radical enough for me. TNI will never tolerate this kind of thing, but Ukraine's army seems to accept the existence of those local Waffen SS.

 

[schuimpjes]

HMI Desak Pemerintah RI Tolak Vladimir Putin di KTT G20

Indonesia menjabat Presidensi G20 dan akan menggelar KTT forum ekonomi dunia itu, Oktober nanti. PB HMI mendesak Pemerintah RI menolak kehadiran Rusia.

news.detik.com

This administration of HMI is pro-government. There were 2 different factions of HMI before the guy name Raihan is became its head, pro-government Raihan faction and Muis’s that relatively anti to the current administration.

I can’t say that our government official stance of current Russia and Ukraine situation is same as this pro-government faction of HMI, but behind, maybe current government stance is same with this guy.

 

[schuimpjes]

And then incorporated into the Ukraine national guard, alongside groups like Azov and Right Sector. Anyway, they are all radical militias, yet also a part of the official armed force of Ukraine, which is a red flag for anyone with common sense. But westerner will still naively supports them anyway just because they fight Russia.

Even Indonesia was also incorporated leftists extremists to the government forces back during Indonesian War of Independence.

In Solo Raya, there was a unit called as Panembahan Senopati before, now its defunct. That unit was mainly filled by ideologically motivated people. But after the Van Mook Line was made, that forced Siliwangi Army led by AH Nasution to migrated to Indonesian part of based from that Van Mook Line. What happened then, guys from Panembahan Senopati started to caused some clash on the internal of Indonesian forces back then, that start was called as Peristiwa Srambatan. So there was actually a civil war between each other too during the Independence War. The fought was started in Surakarta and spilled to what we know now as Madiun Affair.

For me, in the situations like what we see in Ukraine now, helps from anyone are acceptable. You think i not disgusted by the existence of extremists within Ukrainian side now? If can, i want the cleanest forces to be at the Ukrainian too.

 

[HellFireIndo]

Even Indonesia was also incorporated leftists extremists to the government forces back during Indonesian War of Independence.

In Solo Raya, there was a unit called as Panembahan Senopati before, now its defunct. That unit was mainly filled by ideologically motivated people. But after the Van Mook Line was made, that forced Siliwangi Army led by AH Nasution to migrated to Indonesian part of based from that Van Mook Line. What happened then, guys from Panembahan Senopati started to caused some clash on the internal of Indonesian forces back then. So there was actually a civil war between each other too during the Independence War. The fought was started in Surakarta and spilled to what we know now as Madiun Affair.

That's because back then Indonesia was barely even a state and TNI was barely even a military. The national military was just a concept, what existed then were groups of loosely related and uncoordinated militias with their own agendas. Many are just simply "Naga Bonar" tier, self-proclaimed army part-time, local bandit full time. The government and the military have no capacity to control Indonesian territory, even more so because of the Dutch invasion. So the existence of ideologically motivated radical rogue revolutionary militias was inevitable back then. That is why we even have problems with DI/TII and Permesta, to begin with, as prior to the 1957 standardization campaign regional commanders were semi-autonomous and therefore have regional and golongan loyalty.

For me, in the situations like what we see in Ukraine now, helps from anyone are acceptable. You think i not disgusted by the existence of extremists within Ukrainian side now? If can, i want the cleanest forces to be at the Ukrainian too.

That is why I think Ukraine made a mistake here. You said it yourself that such militias are quick to develop into a subversive ideological element, hence the case with Madiun Affair. If Ukraine even gets out of this war alive, we can still expect that there will be a Right-wing coup waiting to happen as these extremist groups are getting influence and experience from the war.

The difference with Indonesia's past case is that Ukraine is a well-established country with an organized national military, unlike revolutionary era Indonesia. But they still go down this path by accepting extremist elements into their armed forces. So it is more proper to compare their case with Germany and their experience with the paramilitary role of SA and SS.

Heck, we can see how the existence of such elements motivated Putin to invade, hence "denazification". This is the same logic with the US supporting PRRI/ Permesta out of fear of Indonesia getting more left-leaning. At first, they might look too small and insignificant just like Permesta, or the Nazis. But then when they finally grow strong, it will be too late, and something extreme will happen sooner or later.

 

[schuimpjes]

That's because back then Indonesia was barely even a state and TNI was barely even a military. The national military was just a concept, what existed then were groups of loosely related and uncoordinated militias with their own agendas. Many are just simply "Naga Bonar" tier, self-proclaimed army part-time, local bandit full time. The government and the military have no capacity to control Indonesian territory, even more so because of the Dutch invasion. So the existence of ideologically motivated radical rogue revolutionary militias was inevitable back then. That is why we even have problems with DI/TII and Permesta, to begin with, as prior to the 1957 standardization campaign regional commanders were semi-autonomous and therefore have regional and golongan loyalty.


That is why I think Ukraine made a mistake here. You said it yourself that such militias are quick to develop into a subversive ideological element, hence the case with Madiun Affair. If Ukraine even gets out of this war alive, we can still expect that there will be a Right-wing coup waiting to happen as these extremist groups are getting influence and experience from the war.

The difference with Indonesia's past case is that Ukraine is a well-established country with an organized national military, unlike revolutionary era Indonesia. But they still go down this path by accepting extremist elements into their armed forces. So it is more proper to compare their case with Germany and their experience with the paramilitary role of SA and SS.

Heck, we can see how the existence of such elements motivated Putin to invade, hence "denazification". This is the same logic with the US supporting PRRI/ Permesta out of fear of Indonesia getting more left-leaning. At first, they might look too small and insignificant just like Permesta, or the Nazis. But then when they finally grow strong, it will be too late, and something extreme will happen sooner or later.

Then Ukrainian have to make something similar like Hatta’s RERA initiative right? That initiative was officially called to reduced the number of military to consisted only by professional soldiers rather than ex-militias that had ideological motivation to certain groups, but the leftist extremists felt the RERA was actually targeted them.

See from our experience, it is also hard too disarm groups of people like that. Yes, maybe they shouldn’t be incorporated at the first place, but they have guns already, they already have their own well regulated militia without state involvement, so incorporated them or not are relatively same for me.

 

[Madokafc]

I don't give comment about a country way who facing existential threat from their larger neighbor, the same thing i am actually giving support for Assad government as they are facing interference from their larger Arabs and Turkey neighbor. Radical moment need Radical choices, you Don't have luxury to pick up right or wrong among the tools you have.

 

[schuimpjes]

the same thing i am actually giving support for Assad government as they are facing interference from their larger Arabs and Turkey neighbor.

Personally, if talking about Assad, I’m against him wkwk. The only way for Syrian people to change the government is through that civil disobedience and protests, for ballot and democracy means nothing there.

About Arabs neighbors, looks like Gulf Countries especially their de facto primus inter pares, UAE, are started to be cool with Assad. Yes, geographically they are not neighbors but at least i see them regionally same. About Turkey, they still backed the FSA (some factions only maybe) and Ya maybe that support spilling over to Idlibi Islamists too, when NATO countries are change their support to SDF now.

If we talking about SDF, the case is same as what we were talking about wkwk, because SDF is mainly or the main groups there are YPG and YPJ that the military wing of PYD that has ties with internationally recognized terrorist Ocalan’s PKK.


US forces training SDF goes brrrrr.