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as long we could secured the safety of our fellow countrymen in Taiwan.
Much larger than in Ukraine tho.
Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia
- Thread starter Gary
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Much larger than in Ukraine tho.
schuimpjes
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This time, actually DPP have more hawkish approach towards the Mainland rather than Kuomintang. Kuomintang has old Chinese people mindset of “yang penting aman, damai, tentram” approach towards the Mainland, and push for more integration with the Mainland, at least better relations. That was why narrations made by Mainland linked personas in social medias during the last election in favor of presidential candidates that not from DPP, they said Taiwanese choosing tension rather than peace if vote for DPP. About the conscription, all presidential candidates had the same consensus to expand it.
US for sure gonna help them, the risk is their reputation if they not helping. Japan, South Korea gonna consider US as unreliable ally as Russian seen by Armenia. Japan still don’t know, but Japan is important because of US bases there. Philippines, may not much help, but indirectly involve, same as Japan, as US basing. US gonna help Philippines to make port facing north in Philippines northernmost islands of Batanes even. Reportedly that port is planned to be used for evacuation in case of invasion, we and others for sure gonna use the port too.
ASEAN never seen as actor to call for asking help in case of armed conflict. Never. And Taiwan have nothing to bargain with to force us.
Paling kalo itu terjadi orang-orang vokal Indonesia yang biasanya gak in favor of US bakal jadi paling berisik minta lend lease. Mau enaknya aja kan, biasa.
Edit:
sori penulisannya gak rapi, keburu-buru
Last edited:
schuimpjes
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Capek dan males bahas politik Indonesia
Gary
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ASEAN, accumulatively, has nothing to offer. But I think the U.S will pressure us to openly side with America, citing Taiwan's democracy, rules based blah blah and some blackmail.
I'm against dying for Taiwan.
Of course we have a vested interest that China fail in their effort, but am not sure if openly siding with America or even worse, joining war on their side is the smartest thing to do.
So I kept asking what is the definition of 'aligning', 'siding' etc
schuimpjes
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This is what differentiates Taiwan with Mainland China. Democracy is no more in Hong Kong even though until 2047 called as “one country, two systems”. Now in HK LegCo just filled with Pro-Beijing camp with Pro-Democratic camp forced to exile or silent after 2019-2020. Now Pro-Beijing government left unchecked and can do anything they want.
schuimpjes
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Rabu minggu depan pelantikan di Istana Negara, Kamis sertijab untuk jadi KSAU
Gary
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I mean, if the Americans really think that democracy is worth dying for, kudos to them. All my good luck, may the best country win. We'll stay out of this.
I don't think everyday Indonesians cared if Taiwan stay democratic or live under one party rule.
The moment war erupts, the Indonesian public will be laser focused on what's the fate of the many Indonesian workers living in Taiwan.
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Pokoknya Semua Kita Borong
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Sedih soalnya habis kalah 3-0 lawan kita.
Ato lagi ngomongin yang lain? Kek pengadaan kapal?
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Kemarin ngeledekin gagal beli AEW, padahal mau dialihkan buat barang Fincantieri.
Gimana tuh proses pengalihan PSP nya?
Gary
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Like China or not, this is how you get rid of foreign agents
www.nytimes.com
A protest against the extradition law in Hong Kong in June 2019.Credit...Lam Yik Fei for The New York Times
By Tiffany May
Reporting from Hong Kong
March 20, 2024
In 2019, Hong Kong erupted into the most stunning expression of public anger with Beijing in decades. Protesters broke into the legislature and vandalized it. They bought full-page advertisements in international newspapers, criticizing the government. Lawmakers hurled unsavory objects in meetings to protest unpopular bills.
In the years since then, China has waged an expansive crackdown on Hong Kong to crush the opposition. Beijing directly imposed a national security law on the city in 2020 that gave the authorities a powerful tool to round up critics, including a prominent pro-democracy media tycoon.
So when Hong Kong’s pro-Beijing lawmakers passed a new security law on Tuesday that expanded the authorities’ power even more, the vote was virtually unopposed. The most vocal pro-democracy activists and lawmakers are now either in prison or self-imposed exile.
Chow Hang Tung in 2021.Credit...Vincent Yu/Associated Press
Chow Hang Tung was a human rights lawyer representing other activists on trial for national security offenses, until she herself was arrested in 2021.
Now, she says, she had no other option but to “become a columnist,” writing open letters from jail, which are then posted online by her friends. She has also filed several legal appeals, writing statements to the court by hand because she had no access to a computer or the internet.
Recently, Ms. Chow has taken aim at Hong Kong’s new security legislation, saying that officials were trying to blame the turbulence it had experienced on ordinary people and vague “foreign forces.”
She faces multiple charges, including some under the 2020 national security law, related to her role in organizing a candlelight vigil commemorating victims of the 1989 Tiananmen crackdown in Beijing.
Being in jail has not stopped her from trying to speak out. Ms. Chow has tried to use her many court appearances as platforms from which to criticize Beijing, including over its longstanding repression of the Tiananmen Mothers, a group representing victims of the massacre.
Ted Hui at a rally in support of Hong Kongers, in Sydney, Australia, in 2021.Credit...James Gourley/EPA, via Shutterstock
Ted Hui was known for being a confrontational lawmaker.
In 2020, he hurled a foul-smelling rotting plant onto the floor of the legislative chamber to protest a bill making it a crime to disrespect the Chinese anthem. At street rallies, he used his megaphone to warn riot police not to hurt protesters; one officer responded by firing pepper spray into Mr. Hui’s eyes.
Mr. Hui was arrested in 2020 and accused of unlawful assembly and other charges. He managed to flee to Copenhagen with the help of two Danish politicians, and was later joined by his family.
At first, the authorities froze his family’s bank accounts. But they later backed down because of an outcry, and Mr. Hui was able to recover his family’s savings.
Mr. Hui is one of around a dozen high-profile pro-democracy activists whom the authorities regard as “absconders.” The new security law now prohibits any attempt to help “absconders” access their assets or property.
“Hong Kongers should be prepared to expect that what has happened to me could become a part of everyday life for regular residents,” he said in a phone interview from Adelaide, Australia, where he and his family have settled.
Claudia Mo in Hong Kong in 2020.Credit...Jerome Favre/EPA, via Shutterstock
Claudia Mo was among 47 pro-democracy leaders charged with “conspiracy to commit subversion” after taking part in an unofficial primary election.
Prosecutors cited television interviews and WhatsApp messages with journalists from The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times as evidence against her. Ms. Mo has been behind bars for more than three years and is awaiting sentencing after pleading guilty.
According to a former lawmaker who visits Ms. Mo in jail, she has been studying French and teaching English to fellow detainees, including the finer points of figures of speech like “tell me about it” and “over the moon.”
Ms. Mo, a former journalist, was known as a moderate in the pro-democracy camp. When masked young protesters stormed the Legislative Council with makeshift battering rams in 2019, Ms. Mo was among a number of veteran politicians urging the demonstrators to stop.
“Please ask if it’s worth it,” she told one protester. “Think about your mother.”
Jimmy Lai at the Stanley prison in Hong Kong in 2023.Credit...Louise Delmotte/Associated Press
Jimmy Lai, one of the most outspoken critics of China’s Communist Party, is on trial on national security charges.
For years, China’s state-controlled media outlets have denounced him as a “C.I.A. agent.” Prosecutors have portrayed him as the master conspirator behind the 2019 protests that roiled Hong Kong. Mr. Lai has pleaded not guilty.
Mr. Lai, who was born on the mainland and moved to Hong Kong at age 12, made his fortune from clothing. But after the Tiananmen massacre, Mr. Lai became a publisher, launching the Apple Daily newspaper in 1995 that became a platform for pro-democracy voices.
After Beijing imposed the 2020 security law, the authorities raided Apple Daily’s offices and arrested Mr. Lai. The newspaper was forced to close in 2021 after several top editors and writers and a senior executive of Mr. Lai’s media group were also charged with “conspiracy to commit collusion” with foreign forces. Those former employees have pleaded guilty.
“I believe in the media, by delivering information, you’re actually delivering freedom,” Mr. Lai said in an interview in 2020 with The Times.
Nathan Law in London in 2023.Credit...Henry Nicholls/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
Nathan Law was a student leader in 2014 protests known as the Umbrella Movement, which called for freer elections. He later became the city’s youngest elected lawmaker at age 23 but was quickly disqualified.
And in 2017, he was jailed on charges of inciting the 2014 street protests, along with Joshua Wong, a fellow protest leader and a prominent face of the student-led demonstrations. Mr. Wong has served several prison sentences related to protests, and is currently in custody while he awaits sentencing in a separate national security case.
Mr. Law escaped Hong Kong shortly before the passage of the security law and was granted asylum in Britain in 2021.
He is now one of the most prominent young Hong Kong activists abroad, often testifying before American and European lawmakers.
Recently, he organized Hong Kong March, a monthlong cultural festival featuring film screenings, calligraphy classes and fairs in various cities in England. He is the founder of Hong Kong Umbrella Community, a nonprofit focused on the Hong Kong diaspora.
“I think having that independent cultural work is crucial to preserve our identity and history and sense of community,” he said in a phone interview. “Though we will undoubtedly be less connected to the one in Hong Kong, we can at least be more connected to the one overseas.”
Anna Kwok in Washington D.C. in 2023.Credit...Evelyn Hockstein/Reuters
Anna Kwok, a Hong Kong activist based in Washington, is one of 13 overseas dissidents the Hong Kong government has targeted with bounties of about $130,000 and promised to pursue “for life.” (The others include Mr. Law and Mr. Hui.)
She had helped the protesters in 2019 from afar, raising hundreds of thousands of dollars anonymously as part of a crowdfunding campaign to pay for front-page newspaper advertisements criticizing the government.
She later became executive director of the Hong Kong Democracy Council and urged the U.S. government to bar John Lee, Hong Kong’s leader, from attending the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation meeting in San Francisco in November. She traveled to the summit to protest the attendance of Xi Jinping, China’s leader.
In a phone interview, Ms. Kwok said she was disheartened that the new security law had passed with no objection or protest. She worried that future generations would forget that many of the city’s residents had once fought hard for democracy.
“No matter how unfree the environment is, we can still keep our minds free,” she said. “And, that is the freedom we have to preserve.”
Where Are Hong Kong’s Leading Pro-Democracy Figures Now?
The city enacted tough new security legislation with little public outcry, partly because those who would have opposed it were either in jail or in exile.
Where Are Hong Kong’s Leading Pro-Democracy Figures Now?
The city enacted tough new security legislation with little public outcry, partly because those who would have opposed it were either in jail or in exile.- Share full article
A protest against the extradition law in Hong Kong in June 2019.Credit...Lam Yik Fei for The New York Times
By Tiffany May
Reporting from Hong Kong
March 20, 2024
In 2019, Hong Kong erupted into the most stunning expression of public anger with Beijing in decades. Protesters broke into the legislature and vandalized it. They bought full-page advertisements in international newspapers, criticizing the government. Lawmakers hurled unsavory objects in meetings to protest unpopular bills.
In the years since then, China has waged an expansive crackdown on Hong Kong to crush the opposition. Beijing directly imposed a national security law on the city in 2020 that gave the authorities a powerful tool to round up critics, including a prominent pro-democracy media tycoon.
So when Hong Kong’s pro-Beijing lawmakers passed a new security law on Tuesday that expanded the authorities’ power even more, the vote was virtually unopposed. The most vocal pro-democracy activists and lawmakers are now either in prison or self-imposed exile.
Chow Hang Tung, lawyer, in jail
Image
Chow Hang Tung in 2021.Credit...Vincent Yu/Associated Press
Chow Hang Tung was a human rights lawyer representing other activists on trial for national security offenses, until she herself was arrested in 2021.
Now, she says, she had no other option but to “become a columnist,” writing open letters from jail, which are then posted online by her friends. She has also filed several legal appeals, writing statements to the court by hand because she had no access to a computer or the internet.
Recently, Ms. Chow has taken aim at Hong Kong’s new security legislation, saying that officials were trying to blame the turbulence it had experienced on ordinary people and vague “foreign forces.”
She faces multiple charges, including some under the 2020 national security law, related to her role in organizing a candlelight vigil commemorating victims of the 1989 Tiananmen crackdown in Beijing.
Being in jail has not stopped her from trying to speak out. Ms. Chow has tried to use her many court appearances as platforms from which to criticize Beijing, including over its longstanding repression of the Tiananmen Mothers, a group representing victims of the massacre.
Ted Hui, ex-lawmaker, in exile in Australia
Ted Hui at a rally in support of Hong Kongers, in Sydney, Australia, in 2021.Credit...James Gourley/EPA, via Shutterstock
Ted Hui was known for being a confrontational lawmaker.
In 2020, he hurled a foul-smelling rotting plant onto the floor of the legislative chamber to protest a bill making it a crime to disrespect the Chinese anthem. At street rallies, he used his megaphone to warn riot police not to hurt protesters; one officer responded by firing pepper spray into Mr. Hui’s eyes.
Mr. Hui was arrested in 2020 and accused of unlawful assembly and other charges. He managed to flee to Copenhagen with the help of two Danish politicians, and was later joined by his family.
At first, the authorities froze his family’s bank accounts. But they later backed down because of an outcry, and Mr. Hui was able to recover his family’s savings.
Mr. Hui is one of around a dozen high-profile pro-democracy activists whom the authorities regard as “absconders.” The new security law now prohibits any attempt to help “absconders” access their assets or property.
“Hong Kongers should be prepared to expect that what has happened to me could become a part of everyday life for regular residents,” he said in a phone interview from Adelaide, Australia, where he and his family have settled.
Claudia Mo, veteran lawmaker, in jail
Image
Claudia Mo in Hong Kong in 2020.Credit...Jerome Favre/EPA, via Shutterstock
Claudia Mo was among 47 pro-democracy leaders charged with “conspiracy to commit subversion” after taking part in an unofficial primary election.
Prosecutors cited television interviews and WhatsApp messages with journalists from The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times as evidence against her. Ms. Mo has been behind bars for more than three years and is awaiting sentencing after pleading guilty.
According to a former lawmaker who visits Ms. Mo in jail, she has been studying French and teaching English to fellow detainees, including the finer points of figures of speech like “tell me about it” and “over the moon.”
Ms. Mo, a former journalist, was known as a moderate in the pro-democracy camp. When masked young protesters stormed the Legislative Council with makeshift battering rams in 2019, Ms. Mo was among a number of veteran politicians urging the demonstrators to stop.
“Please ask if it’s worth it,” she told one protester. “Think about your mother.”
Jimmy Lai, media mogul, in jail
Image
Jimmy Lai at the Stanley prison in Hong Kong in 2023.Credit...Louise Delmotte/Associated Press
Jimmy Lai, one of the most outspoken critics of China’s Communist Party, is on trial on national security charges.
For years, China’s state-controlled media outlets have denounced him as a “C.I.A. agent.” Prosecutors have portrayed him as the master conspirator behind the 2019 protests that roiled Hong Kong. Mr. Lai has pleaded not guilty.
Mr. Lai, who was born on the mainland and moved to Hong Kong at age 12, made his fortune from clothing. But after the Tiananmen massacre, Mr. Lai became a publisher, launching the Apple Daily newspaper in 1995 that became a platform for pro-democracy voices.
After Beijing imposed the 2020 security law, the authorities raided Apple Daily’s offices and arrested Mr. Lai. The newspaper was forced to close in 2021 after several top editors and writers and a senior executive of Mr. Lai’s media group were also charged with “conspiracy to commit collusion” with foreign forces. Those former employees have pleaded guilty.
“I believe in the media, by delivering information, you’re actually delivering freedom,” Mr. Lai said in an interview in 2020 with The Times.
Nathan Law, activist, in exile in London
Image
Nathan Law in London in 2023.Credit...Henry Nicholls/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
Nathan Law was a student leader in 2014 protests known as the Umbrella Movement, which called for freer elections. He later became the city’s youngest elected lawmaker at age 23 but was quickly disqualified.
And in 2017, he was jailed on charges of inciting the 2014 street protests, along with Joshua Wong, a fellow protest leader and a prominent face of the student-led demonstrations. Mr. Wong has served several prison sentences related to protests, and is currently in custody while he awaits sentencing in a separate national security case.
Mr. Law escaped Hong Kong shortly before the passage of the security law and was granted asylum in Britain in 2021.
He is now one of the most prominent young Hong Kong activists abroad, often testifying before American and European lawmakers.
Recently, he organized Hong Kong March, a monthlong cultural festival featuring film screenings, calligraphy classes and fairs in various cities in England. He is the founder of Hong Kong Umbrella Community, a nonprofit focused on the Hong Kong diaspora.
“I think having that independent cultural work is crucial to preserve our identity and history and sense of community,” he said in a phone interview. “Though we will undoubtedly be less connected to the one in Hong Kong, we can at least be more connected to the one overseas.”
Anna Kwok, activist, in exile in Washington, D.C.
Image
Anna Kwok in Washington D.C. in 2023.Credit...Evelyn Hockstein/Reuters
Anna Kwok, a Hong Kong activist based in Washington, is one of 13 overseas dissidents the Hong Kong government has targeted with bounties of about $130,000 and promised to pursue “for life.” (The others include Mr. Law and Mr. Hui.)
She had helped the protesters in 2019 from afar, raising hundreds of thousands of dollars anonymously as part of a crowdfunding campaign to pay for front-page newspaper advertisements criticizing the government.
She later became executive director of the Hong Kong Democracy Council and urged the U.S. government to bar John Lee, Hong Kong’s leader, from attending the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation meeting in San Francisco in November. She traveled to the summit to protest the attendance of Xi Jinping, China’s leader.
In a phone interview, Ms. Kwok said she was disheartened that the new security law had passed with no objection or protest. She worried that future generations would forget that many of the city’s residents had once fought hard for democracy.
“No matter how unfree the environment is, we can still keep our minds free,” she said. “And, that is the freedom we have to preserve.”
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Undangan pertama dari Sana...
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Lumayan masuk akal sih,
schuimpjes
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schuimpjes
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Stuxnet - percentage of infected hosts by country | Statista
The statistic shows the percentage of Stuxnet infected hosts by country in 2010.
www.statista.com
Infected flashdisk from Natanz went everywhere it plugs, infected devices would infect the others and came Indonesia second most infected. But don’t worry, Stuxnet specially tailored to only attack (manipulate) SCADA of Natanz.
Nice short video from Dutch news agency Volkskrant about Stuxnet and Dutch involvement cause it is Dutch news agency.
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Gudang munisi dekat Curug Parigi terbakar. Ada update lagu?
Raggiana-13
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Ada yg bilang gudang AL ciangsana tapi setauku ga ada gudang amunisi di ciangsana..
Apa ini gudang amunisi Armed di bekasi ya... Itu sarang Caesar kan ya / KH koryo..
