Indonesia Casual Discussion Warkop Indonesia

[trishna_amrta]

Olympic Sweetheart-5

View attachment 26662

Zehra Gunes, atlet bola voli Olimpiade Tokyo asal Turki

Atlet bertinggi 1.97m ini br berusia 22 thn

Edisi aseng spesial buat lo

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a5eN9Ga ada apa bangsa sendiri yg layak dipajangApa emang ga ada yach

 

[Gundala]

Hm...

Indonesia's BRI Life probes reported data leak of two mln users

BRI Life, the insurance arm of Indonesia's Bank Rakyat Indonesia (BRI) (BBRI.JK), said on Tuesday it was investigating claims that the personal details of over two million of its customers had been advertised for sale by unidentified hackers.

www.reuters.com

Sementara usulan undang-undang perlnidungan informasi data publik nyangkut di birokrasi, gimana mau serius mereka jaga data kalau undang-undangnya ga jadi-jadi.....

 

[trishna_amrta]

If any of you know local folklore or song who depict our true roots as sailing people. The Nords or Viking had like this one, a very apt for any great Maritime Nation

eeehm.... not exactly. The Scandinavians weren't even a decent navigator. They merely rely on their faith that Odin the All Father (Wuotan for Germanic folk) will guide them and Thor the God of Thunder (Donar for Gemranic folk) will spare them from his wrath. Our ancestor on the other hand has already get practical celestial navigation into an art in the same time period.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Sementara usulan undang-undang perlnidungan informasi data publik nyangkut di birokrasi, gimana mau serius mereka jaga data kalau undang-undangnya ga jadi-jadi.....

Meskipun nanti udah ada payung hukum nya, peraturan turunan berikut pelaksanaan di lapangannya masih akan tetap jauh dari mandat undang2x nya. Masalahnya kualitas SDM dan mindset SDM kita ga bisa sinergi dengan market demand dan perkembangan jaman.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

eeehm.... not exactly. The Scandinavians weren't even a decent navigator. They merely rely on their faith that Odin the All Father (Wuotan for Germanic folk) will guide them and Thor the God of Thunder (Donar for Gemranic folk) will spare them from his wrath. Our ancestor on the other hand has already get practical celestial navigation into an art in the same time period.

So, javanesse navigator along the capability to build 350 m + ship isn't a mitos ?

The surviving instrument of maritim navigator of the past civilizations is minuscule to none todays. Its hard even to imagine how old people work in navigation back then

 

[Var Dracon]

So, javanesse navigator along the capability to build 350 m + ship isn't a mitos ?

The surviving instrument of maritim navigator of the past civilizations is minuscule to none todays. Its hard even to imagine how old people work in navigation back then

350 m + WOODEN ship before 1800s is INDEED myth, no wood is strong enough to make ship such large.

In fact, above certain size (about 300 ft or 91 m) a wooden ship would be considered structurally unsafe. Only after 1800s and iron used for frame and hull, a ship can finally reach more than that size.

If you don't know already, the 120+ m figure for Chinese (Zheng He/Cheng Ho's) ship is now considered fairytale. The source that mentioned it is a fantasy novel published about 200 years AFTER the voyage. Even modern reconstruction of Zheng He ship (which was formerly attempted to be sail-worthy), in Nanjing is only about 70 m long, and this did not go to sea.

A 120+ m Chinese ship would be about 20.000 ton in displacement, whereas natural limit to the size of a wooden ocean-going ship is about 7.000 tons displacement.

The same problem would happen if you believe any wooden ship (regardless of nation) could reach more than 100 m. The displacement would be too heavy, the ship would break under its own weight (there are several pages on wikipedia claiming ships of such size, such as those of ancient Greece/Roman, but retracing the source cited will make it clear the estimate is usually made more than 100 years after the ship's supposed existence, and the people who made the estimate for the size is not even an engineer or knew the slightest about ancient shipbuilding).

The 350+ m for Javanese you mention is an estimate made by Irawan Djoko Nugroho, who is a philologist not an engineer. Now I do not know how heavy a 350 m wooden ship is, but it is certainly far exceed 7.000 tons displacement as a natural limit for wooden ship.

A 80 m long hull for a 1000-men Javanese Jong may have been make more sense, but there is not enough archaeological data to support this (until now). Admiral Nelson's flagship, HMS Victory (1758), is only about 57 m in deck length, and 69 m overall. A 80 m long ship would be considered large for a ship existing between 800 AD-1600 AD.

 

[trishna_amrta]

So, javanesse navigator along the capability to build 350 m + ship isn't a mitos ?

waduuuch 300+ m itu dasarnya mbaca literature nya siapa itu Kalau 300' + masih masuk diakal, tapi kalau 300m+ itu ga masuk diakal.

The surviving instrument of maritim navigator of the past civilizations is minuscule to none todays. Its hard even to imagine how old people work in navigation back then

Taruh / simpan / buang dulu itu HangPhone. Trus saat malam hari keluar lihat ke langit

 

[Van Kravchenko]

350 m + WOODEN ship before 1800s is INDEED myth, no wood is strong enough to make ship such large.

In fact, above certain size (about 300 ft or 91 m) a wooden ship would be considered structurally unsafe. Only after 1800s and iron used for frame and hull, a ship can finally reach more than that size.

If you don't know already, the 120+ m figure for Chinese (Zheng He/Cheng Ho's) ship is now considered fairytale. The source that mentioned it is a fantasy novel published about 200 years AFTER the voyage. Even modern reconstruction of Zheng He ship (which was formerly attempted to be sail-worthy), in Nanjing is only about 70 m long, and this did not go to sea.

A 120+ m Chinese ship would be about 20.000 ton in displacement, whereas natural limit to the size of a wooden ocean-going ship is about 7.000 tons displacement.

The same problem would happen if you believe any wooden ship (regardless of nation) could reach more than 100 m. The displacement would be too heavy, the ship would break under its own weight (there are several pages on wikipedia claiming ships of such size, such as those of ancient Greece/Roman, but retracing the source cited will make it clear the estimate is usually made more than 100 years after the ship's supposed existence, and the people who made the estimate for the size is not even an engineer or knew the slightest about ancient shipbuilding).

The 350+ m for Javanese you mention is an estimate made by Irawan Djoko Nugroho, who is a philologist not an engineer. Now I do not know how heavy a 350 m wooden ship is, but it is certainly far exceed 7.000 tons displacement as a natural limit for wooden ship.

A 80 m long hull for a 1000-men Javanese Jong may have been make more sense, but there is not enough archaeological data to support this (until now). Admiral Nelson's flagship, HMS Victory (1758), is only about 57 m in deck length, and 69 m overall. A 80 m long ship would be considered large for a ship existing between 800 AD-1600 AD.

I know, its quite cringe if i directly bring newspaper articles without crosscheck it again.

I just wonder why such vessel ended up gone at Mataram era, and the knowledge gone with the wind.

waduuuch 300+ m itu dasarnya mbaca literature nya siapa itu Kalau 300' + masih masuk diakal, tapi kalau 300m+ itu ga masuk diakal.


Taruh / simpan / buang dulu itu HangPhone. Trus saat malam hari keluar lihat ke langit

Iya bapak, saya yg keliru

Mungkin harusnya 300 kaki, itupun ukurannya pasti sangat besar.

Apalagi untuk ukuran pada waktu itu belum menggunakan satuan yang baku.

Terlebih ada 2 catatan sejarah yang bilang kalau kapal Mataram mampu menahan meriam protugis dan terdapat bangsa di Madagascar yang masih berkerabat dengan orang jawa.
Setidaknya konstruksi kapalnya sudah cukup bagus pada waktu itu.

Soal bintang sebagai alat navigasi memang sampe sekarang digunakan, maksud saya apakah ada alat seperti sektan dan kompas sebagai alat petunjuk lainnya ?

 

[Var Dracon]

I know, its quite cringe if i directly bring newspaper articles without crosscheck it again.

I just wonder why such vessel ended up gone at Mataram era, and the knowledge gone with the wind.


Iya bapak, saya yg keliru

Mungkin harusnya 300 kaki, itupun ukurannya pasti sangat besar.

Apalagi untuk ukuran pada waktu itu belum menggunakan satuan yang baku.

Terlebih ada 2 catatan sejarah yang bilang kalau kapal Mataram mampu menahan meriam protugis dan terdapat bangsa di Madagascar yang masih berkerabat dengan orang jawa.
Setidaknya konstruksi kapalnya sudah cukup bagus pada waktu itu.

Soal bintang sebagai alat navigasi memang sampe sekarang digunakan, maksud saya apakah ada alat seperti sektan dan kompas sebagai alat petunjuk lainnya ?

Ada referensi mengenai "Malay compass" ... Tetapi jika dilacak secara etimologis katanya bukan berasal dari bahasa Melayu, disebut demikian karena orang luar nyebut penduduk Nusantara dengan kata "Malay" (Melayu) hampir pukul rata.

A Descriptive Dictionary of the Indian Islands & Adjacent Countries

books.google.co.id

Kata untuk kompas di Nusantara disebut Padoman/Padhoman atau Pedoman, dengan asal kata "Dom/Dhom" dari bahasa Jawa yang berarti "needle" (jarum).

Verhandelingen van het Bataviaasch genootschap der kunsten en wetenschappen

books.google.co.id

Dalam bahasa Melayu tidak dikenal kata Dom/Dhom, yang ada "Jarum". Jadi kemungkinannya orang Jawa memang sudah mengenal kompas.

Ludovico di Varthema (1470-1517) dan Albuquerque (1512) waktu di Nusantara melaporkan waktu itu kapten kapal Jawa sudah memiliki kompas, dan peta yang digunakan orang Nusantara pun penuh garis-garis memanjang dan melintang, garis rhumb, dan garis rute langsung yang dilalui kapal. Pembuatan garis-garis ini perlu mengetahui ilmu kartografi dan alat-alat pendukungnya, tapi sayang hampir tidak ada catatan lokal mengenai kartografi lokal karena orang Nusantara cenderung praktis bukan teoritis (dan karena ciri orang Nusantara yang jarang menulis).

The travels of Ludovico di Varthema in Egypt, Syria, Arabia Deserta and Arabia Felix, in Persia, India, and Ethiopia, A.D. 1503 to 1508 : Varthema, Lodovico de, 15th cent : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Includes bibliographical references (p. iii-xvi) and index

archive.org

The Suma oriental of Tomé Pires : an account of the East, from the Red Sea to Japan, written in Malacca and India in 1512-1515 ; and, the book of Francisco Rodrigues, rutter of a voyage in the Red Sea, nautical rules, almanack and maps, written and

2 volumes (xcvi, 578 pages) : xlii plates (some folded ; including frontispieces, maps, facsimiles), 2 folded maps (in pockets) ; 23 cm.

archive.org

Waktu tahun 1600-an , ada pedagang Belanda yang membawa kompas ke Nusantara untuk dijual tetapi sampai ke Nusantara tidak laku sama sekali, karena orang Nusantara dikatakan tidak memakai kompas. Untuk abad ini, situasi sudah berubah, sudah jarang orang Jawa yang berdagang/berlayar jarak jauh, paling yang ada hanya ke lokasi yang dekat saja jadi wajar kompas tidak laku. Kebiasaan juga sudah berubah pastinya, setelah jatuhnya Majapahit mungkin semakin sedikit yang memakai peta/kompas, dan kartografi sudah ditinggalkan / tidak diajarkan lagi.

Asian Trade And European Influence In The Indonesian Archipelago Between 1500 And About 1630 : Marie Antoinette Petronella Meilink-Roelofsz : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The central theme of this comparative study of the position of native trade in Indonesia is the appearance of foreign traders both Asian and European. New...

archive.org

 

[trishna_amrta]

A 80 m long hull for a 1000-men Javanese Jong may have been make more sense, but there is not enough archaeological data to support this (until now). Admiral Nelson's flagship, HMS Victory (1758), is only about 57 m in deck length, and 69 m overall. A 80 m long ship would be considered large for a ship existing between 800 AD-1600 AD.

The record of the large Djonk type ship are mostly came from records. While record from later period indicate smaller size. But the nature of the record still hold to scrutinies, due to the fact of different time period.

I just wonder why such vessel ended up gone at Mataram era, and the knowledge gone with the wind.

Mataram takut kalau yg di Pantura bikin kapal gede2x, karna MAtaram sendiri bukan basis maritim tapi agraris.

Terlebih ada 2 catatan sejarah yang bilang kalau kapal Mataram mampu menahan meriam protugis dan terdapat bangsa di Madagascar yang masih berkerabat dengan orang jawa.
Setidaknya konstruksi kapalnya sudah cukup bagus pada waktu itu.

Philosophy design kapal Djonk biar lambat asal selamat. Jadi lambung kapalnya bisa 3 lapis dan kedap air konstruksinya.

Soal bintang sebagai alat navigasi memang sampe sekarang digunakan, maksud saya apakah ada alat seperti sektan dan kompas sebagai alat petunjuk lainnya ?

Ga perlu pakai Sextan. Jarak tempuh laut antar pulau di Nusantara ini khan ga terlalu jauh, bisa mampir2x di pulau2x kecil dsb. Dan bangsa kita dari awal melaut sudah kenal celestial navigation + kompas (kemungkinan besar kompas nya hasil ToT dari .

FYI, nelayan tradisional kiita (yg perahu2x)) itu pada ga pakai kompas lho sampai sekarang. Walaupun HP nya ada kompas + GPS mereka juga ga tau cara pakainya. Jangankan nelayan, rata2x driver Ojol yg saya temui juga ga paham cara pakai GPS HP nya, sampai2x sering yg tanya alamat ke saya, dan saya jawabnya gampang aja dengan cek di HP saya alamat yg ditanyakan.

 

[Parry Brima]

Olympic Sweetheart-6

Letizia Paternoster, atlet balap sepeda (cyclist) Olimpiade Tokyo asal Italia

Atlet berusia 21 thn ini pernah menggondol medali emas kejuaraan balap sepeda Eropa nomor beregu (Team Pursuit).

 

[Parry Brima]

a5eN9Ga ada apa bangsa sendiri yg layak dipajangApa emang ga ada yach

ngapain minta yg lokal. Udahlah, nih extra aseng buat lo

 

[trishna_amrta]

Olympic Sweetheart-6

View attachment 26723

Letizia Paternoster, atlet balap sepeda (cyclist) Olimpiade Tokyo asal Italia

Atlet berusia 21 thn ini pernah menggondol medali emas kejuaraan balap sepeda Eropa nomor beregu (Team Pursuit).

ngapain minta yg lokal. Udahlah, nih extra aseng buat lo

View attachment 26725

hadeeeh 5eNg... 4sEng lagi yg dipajangga malu apa bangsa sendiri ga ada yg dipajang

 

[Gundala]

Meskipun nanti udah ada payung hukum nya, peraturan turunan berikut pelaksanaan di lapangannya masih akan tetap jauh dari mandat undang2x nya. Masalahnya kualitas SDM dan mindset SDM kita ga bisa sinergi dengan market demand dan perkembangan jaman.

couldnt agree more, pertanyaan gue sama kayak ibu SM. Kemana itu dana pendidikan yg nilainya segede itu perginya kalau kualitas SDM yg dihasilkan ga sebanding sama jumlah anggaran yg dikeluarkan? Hadehhhh......
Jadi inget curhatan saudara gue yg kerja sama Red Cross International waktu tsunami Aceh. Dia ditugaskan ngasih beasiswa utk belajar penanganan bencana ke luar negri utk salah satu institusi kita, kandidat yg disodorkan dari kita umurnya dah tua dan mau masuk pensiun....kandidatnya ditolak malah kita yg ngomel-ngomel
#tepokjidad

 

[Barjo]

ngapain minta yg lokal. Udahlah, nih extra aseng buat lo

View attachment 26725

Iki wadon po dudu kok do suntik testoteron kabeh

 

[trishna_amrta]

Iki wadon po dudu kok do suntik testoteron kabeh

lah yoh ngono kui selera ne arek jaman saiki mas. Sembarang disuntak suntik, mulai pipi, susu, bokong disuntik'i kabeh Palsu kabeh

 

[Parry Brima]

Olympic Sweetheart-7

Georgia Ellenwood, atlet heptathlon Olimpiade Tokyo asal Canada

Atlet berusia 25 thn ini adl lulusan University of Wisconsin dgn GPA 3.8 (source: Linked In).

Heptathlon meliputi 7 cabang olahraga, yaitu lari 200m dan 800m, lari gawang 100m, lompat tinggi, lompat jauh, tolak peluru, dan lempar lembing.

 

[NEKO]

Something like Cast Away, somewhere in Indonesia.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Something like Cast Away, somewhere in Indonesia.

hardly something I would call as survival course, let alone a jungle survival one. At best, it's only useful for preconditioning.

Anyway, looking from the karst formation, coral reef, wave height, and time of day, my best guess that was at the northeast part of Raja Ampat

 

[Umigami]