Israeli study: Turkey is strongest maritime force in the region

[Huelague]

Thats bs,the israeli airforce uses its on systems on all fighter aircraft,their drone programs are on par with the US's,same goes for their missiles,a nuclear power,all kinds of land systems yet you claim its nothing without the US.
Do you live in a fantasy world or something?

They get this without any US support?

 

[The Dutchman]

They get this without any US support?

what support do you mean,name some?

 

[Huelague]

what support do you mean,name some?

I ask you. Do they get any kind of support from US?

 

[Huelague]

US aid to Israel between 1946-2020 Billon 247$ !!!

How much aid does the US give to Israel?

Israel has received more foreign aid from the US than any other country since WWII.

usafacts.org

That's official state aid/money only.

 

[The Dutchman]

I ask you. Do they get any kind of support from US?

Im not Israeli,im Dutch(the Netherlands).
israel does get some support from the US but so did your country.
Without the US,you wouldnt have a defence Industry,first with joining NATO(many weapons systems donated or sold) and later the embargos which forced you to create Tubitak,TAI,Aselsan,Havelsan,Roketsan etc.
TAI gained experience with the assembly of the Turkish F16s,Atmaca an improved copy of the harpoon missile,many missile systems are mostly copies although improved versions of US systems you used etc.
The US also uses Israeli weapon systems,Radars,EW suits,pods,IA etc.

 

[Huelague]

Im not Israeli,im Dutch(the Netherlands).
israel does get some support from the US but so did your country.
Without the US,you wouldnt have a defence Industry,first with joining NATO(many weapons systems donated or sold) and later the embargos which forced you to create Tubitak,TAI,Aselsan,Havelsan,Roketsan etc.
TAI gained experience with the assembly of the Turkish F16s,Atmaca an improved copy of the harpoon missile,many missile systems are mostly copies although improved versions of US systems you used etc.
The US also uses Israeli weapon systems,Radars,EW suits,pods,IA etc.

I really don't care where you come from.
Nobody denies US help on our defense industry. You talk about NATO. What was the situation of our defense industry before our participation on NATO? Many systems were donated to us, you said? Which systems? By whom! For which purpose? We are just copying? And US never did? From Germany or Russia, right?
I guess you (Dutch) have had never foreign support and all your stuffs are unique and origin!

 

[The Dutchman]

I really don't care where you come from.
Nobody denies US help on our defense industry. You talk about NATO. What was the situation of our defense industry before our participation on NATO? Many systems were donated to us, you said? Which systems? By whom! For which purpose? We are just copying? And US never did? From Germany or Russia, right?
I guess you (Dutch) have had never foreign support and all your stuffs are unique and origin!

I never claimed that,we have many US weapon systems but you guys always claim that Israel is nothing without the US,thats why i reacted.
No need to be defensive buddy,it is what it is.
Good night to you.

 

[Huelague]

Billion 1.3$ by these "Philanthropists".

https://cdn.fedweb.org/fed-42/2/Top_13_Philanthropists_Support_Jewish_Community.pdf

 

[Huelague]

I never claimed that,we have many US weapon systems but you guys always claim that Israel is nothing without the US,thats why i reacted.
No need to be defensive buddy,it is what it is.
Good night to you.

Not nothing. But much lesser than current situation. I don't want to bring other donate/aid from EU. Or military support by transferring of technology.
Good night and sleep well.

 

[mulj]

Thats bs,the israeli airforce uses its on systems on all fighter aircraft,their drone programs are on par with the US's,same goes for their missiles,a nuclear power,all kinds of land systems yet you claim its nothing without the US.
Do you live in a fantasy world or something?

No, we see how idenpendent. they are after last agression on gaza, usa signed 1 billion usd imediatelly for iron dom refilling. Which drones programs and in service?
They can impress toothless neghbor countries, anone else knows where is their real power, couple of domestic systems can not change that fact.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Bullshit!

Air superiority is of course important, but not everything. It is still impossible for Israel to conquer Turkey with his massive population and mountainous terrain. Not to mention our Navy superiority. Israel air defense can do shit against a massive rocket/missile attack. The have just few minutes to react. Sending hundreds of missile or bomb dummies by following a massive missile attack would bring Israel air defense systems down.

We have seen how easy massive air defense systems can be fooled and knocked out in Karabagh war. Now, image OUR FULL capacity/capability. Yes, Israel is not Armenia, but we are not Azerbaijan. In a massive first strike, Israel can do shit! Because the are still smal country with less populations. The last choice they would have is the nuke.

Don't overestimate Israels capabilities.

so my first point was that air power is critical, the most important thing. Your response was "but what about the afghans" my response was the afghans are an exception, even then without airpower they got occupied for decades and had millions slaughtered. Had they had a powerful airforce maybe they never get occupied to begin with. And without a powerful airforce, guess what someone else is going to invade them again in the near term to repeat the loser cycle.

Yes Isreal cannot conquer Turkey, but Turkey cannot mount a successful invasion of Isreal either. Because you switched the argument to afghanistan concerning airpower i simply pointed out if you want to share their fate then go for it.

Why are you people so in denial about airpower? Take american airpower out of the equation and their is next to nothing they can do anywhere.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Thats bs,the israeli airforce uses its on systems on all fighter aircraft,their drone programs are on par with the US's,same goes for their missiles,a nuclear power,all kinds of land systems yet you claim its nothing without the US.
Do you live in a fantasy world or something?

I didn't even personally get into the nuclear power isreal has, in essence with one bomb Istanbul is gone and with it a 1/3rd of the Turkish economy. Lots of people here were finding it hard to comprehend how important airpower is and the fact isreal is more powerful in the air then Turkey. But when it comes to nukes and their delivery, Turkeys stands no chance.

Dominate the skies you dominate the war.

 

[Saithan]

No one said anything about conquering Turkey. The discussion were winning a war, and whoever holds air superiority wins especially if you have allies willing to supply you with whatever you need.

Don't try to deviate from the questions by sidetracking or refering to Afghanistan or Vietnam when they are not comparable. Just remember who supplied Turkey with weapons during war of independence.

Stay on topic.

IMO we needed more Milgem Ada class ships especially considering we have so many old ships that should have been retired. at least 8 should have been sailing now!

I'd prefer more Frigates than wait for TF2000, what's wrong with having 20 Frigates of Istif class, or more.

Also I'd prefer to see Hürjet flying than talk about TFX, I'm pessimistic and realistic, I don't mind we're working on other projects either, but I'd make damn sure that I had what I needed before bragging. TS1400 on ATAK fully operational, Flying Hürjet fully operational, those two would make me grind my teeth a lot less.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Turks should be writing article about the threat isreals nuclear program is Turkey to conjure up public sentiment for a domestic nuclear program. Also Turkey had one independence war, may we never ever experience another one.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Yes that is true.
The actual number isnt actually disclosed since you know.....God damn jews are getting extreme favouritism but reports indicate that they posses more than 600 fighter jets. On the other hand, France only has around 200 attack fighter jets

An air force that not only includes modern f16's but also air superior fighters like the F15 as well as 5th generation stealth aircraft like the F35. Meanwhile Turkey has about 300 fighter aircraft with many of them not being the most advanced F16's going.

Just like in the wars with the arabs, when the jews lost equipment the americans replenished it free of charge. Turkey will hit embargoes from day one of any conflict. Just look at all the embargoes we are facing because we entered syria.

You see, the jews understand how critical airpower is so they amassed the most powerful airforce the middle east and one of the most powerful air forces in the world. A country of 6 million with no real state history has amassed an airforce that shits on a country of close to 90 million whose history of statecraft and warfare is unmatched. How does that happen? Is it ignorance and arrogance?

 

[LegionnairE]

Yeah no shit. Of course we are the strongest naval power in the region.

Our weakness is in the air. Simply nothing to replace the F-4 Phantoms with.

We need a new type immediately. Best candidate is, as I said before:

Gripen E

 

[Ryder]

Turks need to stop seeing Israel as an ally or friend

They are a threat to us just like Saudi Arabia, UAE and Iran.

We can trade and cooperate but never get close with them.

 

[LegionnairE]

Turks need to stop seeing Israel as an ally or friend

They are a threat to us just like Saudi Arabia, UAE and Iran.

We can trade and cooperate but never get close with them.

Israel is nobody's ally and nobody in Turkey sees them as an ally either.

That being said, they did a good job with M60T

 

[Jacop]

Turks need to stop seeing Israel as an ally or friend

They are a threat to us just like Saudi Arabia, UAE and Iran.

We can trade and cooperate but never get close with them.

Turks should stop seeing all countries as allies or friends or enemy this is a fancy dream. the world is not a static. Every country is a potential competitor of the other. As a Jew, I say that Israel may even ally with Palestine in the coming years, this is not a problem for me and jewis. Think of it this way, you want to make a painting. Then you should use red as well, white or orange. Countries cannot have feelings. shouldn't be.

 

[Ryder]

Turks should stop seeing all countries as allies or friends or enemy this is a fancy dream. the world is not a static. Every country is a potential competitor of the other. As a Jew, I say that Israel may even ally with Palestine in the coming years, this is not a problem for me and jewis. Think of it this way, you want to make a painting. Then you should use red as well, white or orange. Countries cannot have feelings. shouldn't be.

Its all geopolitics at the end of the day.

Everybody does their thing.

Israel does what it believes its best for them. Turkey needs to think the same.

Then again i dont believe in outright hostility. Afterall Turkey and Israel's interests may clash but also in other areas where it converges which makes them seem they are on the same team.

Turkey and Israel can agree that Iran is a threat no doubt.