TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Lonewolf]

Could we say "radar warning systems are also passive radars"
Or passive radars can identify further frequencies than usual radar signals which fighters' radars emit?

View attachment 30970

One sensor on left intake is missing (not represented here ). That's maybe for DAS too

 

[TheInsider]

As per my info .

Aesa can listen some designated frequency , and receive such .

It's pre decided what it's going to listen to , any random frequency is considered noise and thus removed , that's why radar are optimised for high gains so that the required frequency don't get removed in noise .

When received it goes through converter and further interpretation take place

Well, that is what "vanilla" AESA does. Our AESA is a little different. It has ESM and ECM capability which means it can be used to analyze the radar signals in the radar's frequency range and can be used as a jammer.

 

[TheInsider]

By the way, it seems like Viper AESA radar(AN/APG-83) comes with some defects due to its design. That is why Aselsan is designing a brand new cooling and power delivery system for its AESA radar.

https://www.matec-conferences.org/articles/matecconf/pdf/2019/53/matecconf_easn2019_04001.pdf

 

[Lonewolf]

Well, that is what "vanilla" AESA does. Our AESA is a little different. It has ESM and ECM capability which means it can be used to analyze the radar signals in the radar's frequency range and can be used as a jammer.

That's due to passive array are installed on aircraft which then uses shared aperture of radar to produce radar frequency

 

[Lonewolf]

That's due to passive array are installed on aircraft which then uses shared aperture of radar to produce radar frequency

@TheInsider that still doesn't make it proper passive array

 

[Nilgiri]

Could we say "radar warning systems are also passive radars"
Or passive radars can identify further frequencies than usual radar signals which fighters' radars emit?

View attachment 30970

Yes RWRs are passive (receive only).

Their antenna can be phased array these days....but their channelized receiver and related architecture tends to be optimized to dealing with missile threats and pulse-doppler signals given thats all there generally is room for (on say fighters) and these continue to cover a large bulk of threats found today.

They generally wont be as capable as a larger AESA (with far more advanced channelized receivers and algorithms) on listen only mode....but the important thing regarding them and DAS is you can orient them to cover different approaches to the platform (unlike the AESA radar which is quite narrow field of operation).

Its not really a case of further frequencies (since the sweeps are all pretty much the same), but the frequency analysis regimen (w.r.t background noise), capacity and sensitivity itself that is lot more robust (esp. given computational power backing it) in dedicated ESA radar than an RWR.

There are some exceptions, as you do get large + advanced RWRs on larger/specialised aircraft (ELINT, SEAD etc)...that do end up being something like a listen-only but very capable ESA one can say.

But you need to commit mass budget for that (i.e the aircraft is specialised role...rather than multi-role fighter).

Generally if you have AESA on board (say a fighter), there is less need for traditional RWR....the AESA will have a mode to commit some TRMs to what an RWR does....and would do it better and you end up saving room + power (and use DAS like in your pic)....room+power you can use for (IR/UV) MAWS instead and cover more bases there. This ends up actually being an extra advantage of having an AESA + DAS.

RWR domain is undergoing lot of RnD lately (given size available on a fighter and given the growing threat of ESA seekers).

They are evolving into even more integrated systems ("sensor fusion") by better multiplex processing with MAWS and LWR on the platform. Conceptually very much like DAS distributing the AESA aperture effectively.

 

[Stimpy75]

i hope we will get to this point too

 

[Lonewolf]

i hope we will get to this point too

You won't have that much order . F 35 will be produced in thousands , tfx may cross 300 at mac

 

[Huelague]

You won't have that much order . F 35 will be produced in thousands , tfx may cross 300 at max

I dont think so.

 

[Lonewolf]

I dont think so.

How will you order that much and in that compressed timeframe and that too in a tine when many 5th gen will be in offering . A bit hard for me to guess

 

[Huelague]

How will you order that much and in that compressed timeframe and that too in a tine when many 5th gen will be in offering . A bit hard for me to guess

Which timeframe?

 

[Oublious]

How will you order that much and in that compressed timeframe and that too in a tine when many 5th gen will be in offering . A bit hard for me to guess

LoL...


What are you trying to proof? A simple video about F35, we don't now why the member have shared. We only now he have shared the video, nobdoy claimed we will make that amount of fighters.

 

[Lonewolf]

LoL...


What are you trying to proof? A simple video about F35, we don't now why the member have shared. We only now he have shared the video, nobdoy claimed we will make that amount of fighters.

He said one day ,i said that it's impossible to reach production level of f 35 by any other country due to it being a multinational cooperation project . F 35 makers use that production techniques so that production is faster as more order are awaited .

It isn't a mocking if you see it carefully

 

[Lonewolf]

Which timeframe?

2030

 

[Yasar_TR]

How will you order that much and in that compressed timeframe and that too in a tine when many 5th gen will be in offering . A bit hard for me to guess

That is just a wishful thinking post of a member.
There will however, be an automated production line for TFX. Tusas has already built a new factory to produce TFX. TurAF will need 250-300 planes before 2040. Some of the close allies and local countries may want to purchase this plane. So there should be a sizeable export market too.
But a production line that will produce 3000+ planes is not realistic. A much smaller scale however is not too much to ask for. MD of Tusas has already said that they are gearing up for minimum 2 planes per month production speed. He also mentioned that if push comes to shove they could produce 10 or even 20 per month. Turkey is not a rich country. With limited resources, 2 per month covers well the needs.

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

 

[Lonewolf]

That is just a wishful thinking post of a member.
There will however, be an automated production line for TFX. Tusas has already built a new factory to produce TFX. TurAF will need 250-300 planes before 2040. Some of the close allies and local countries may want to purchase this plane. So there should be a sizeable export market too.
But a production line that will produce 3000+ planes is not realistic. A much smaller scale however is not too much to ask for. MD of Tusas has already said that they are gearing up for minimum 2 planes per month production speed. He also mentioned that if push comes to shove they could produce 10 or even 20 per month. Turkey is not a rich country. With limited resources, 2 per month covers well the needs.

Defense World

View News at Defense World

www.defenseworld.net

Automated line ?? , Isn't it a bit unrealistic , cause you can manufacture lru in automated machine but making a assembly line will be complicated

 

[Yasar_TR]

Automated line ?? , Isn't it a bit unrealistic , cause you can manufacture lru in automated machine but making a assembly line will be complicated

Have you seen Turkish production lines? Yes, automation in almost all parts of the industry is valid. Albeit In different degrees. But it is there. Labour costs are not cheap in Turkey. Qualified production line workers may cost over 1000-1500 Euros per month to the employers. This could be higher in engineering side. I remember my company’s cost per worker being 800-1100 euros per month 15-20 years ago. So automation is relevant.
Below is a company that is setting up robotic painting line for Tusas.

 

[Lonewolf]

Have you seen Turkish production lines? Yes, automation in almost all parts of the industry is valid. Albeit In different degrees. But it is there. Labour costs are not cheap in Turkey. Qualified production line workers may cost over 1000-1500 Euros per month to the employers. This could be higher in engineering side. I remember my company’s cost per worker being 800-1100 euros per month 15-20 years ago. So automation is relevant.
Below is a company that is setting up robotic painting line for Tusas.
View attachment 31160

Painting a fourth gen jet is quite different from 5 the gen , but I would not comment on its feasibility till I see it real life

 

[Huelague]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437771481631629324

Hürjet, Hürjeeet, HÜRJEEEEEET!

@Lonewolf ,have you seen?
No steel-cutting. No ceremony. The process is not always releaseed to public.

 

[Huelague]

Have you seen Turkish production lines? Yes, automation in almost all parts of the industry is valid. Albeit In different degrees. But it is there. Labour costs are not cheap in Turkey. Qualified production line workers may cost over 1000-1500 Euros per month to the employers. This could be higher in engineering side. I remember my company’s cost per worker being 800-1100 euros per month 15-20 years ago. So automation is relevant.
Below is a company that is setting up robotic painting line for Tusas.
View attachment 31160

Not to mention our co-operation with Germany on industry 4.0 and upcoming 5.G. Will make things faster.