TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Era_shield]

Turkish national engine will be similar to F110 but it will also have differences. There will also be many surprises and improvements. The national engine will have up-to-date technologies like 3D additive manufacturing, advanced blisk production, a monolithic compressor section, national single crystal blades and coatings,

No official contract requirement is 29000 lbs. TRMotor thinks it can achieve 35000lbs and sets that number as a target.

According to Ibrahim Sunnetci, prototype spec was minimum 27k lbf and a 29k lbf engine was chosen, but production engine is planned to be 35k lbf, to be later increased to 40k. I also seem to remember an official announcement about this from the head of TEI or TAI but the search is failing me at the moment.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425907779303317510

 

[TheInsider]

Yeah, it was 27000lbs at first and increased to 29000lbs. That is the lowest acceptable at the moment. 35.000 lbs thrust is more like a target rather than a bare minimum.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Yeah, it was 27000lbs at first and increased to 29000lbs. That is the lowest acceptable at the moment. 35.000 lbs thrust is more like a target rather than a bare minimum.

If memory serves, the 27000lbf was there because RR was asked to improve on their EJ200 engine offer for TFX as we weren’t looking for a small plane. And they said they could re engineer this engine to give a thrust of 27000lbf which they though should be enough.
A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then though!
But these are not dry thrust values. Dry thrust value has to be high enough to achieve high super cruise speeds. Both F22 and SU57 achieve 1.8 Mach super cruise. US defines super cruise as higher than 1.5 Mach Sustained . Also there has to be enough power available whereby high power consuming electronics and radar systems are supported comfortably on a 5th gen plane.

 

[Merzifonlu]

But these are not dry thrust values. Dry thrust value has to be high enough to achieve high super cruise speeds. Both F22 and SU57 achieve 1.8 Mach super cruise. US defines super cruise as higher than 1.5 Mach Sustained . Also there has to be enough power available whereby high power consuming electronics and radar systems are supported comfortably on a 5th gen plane.

You are so right. The energy need for 6th generation aircraft has increased even more. The engines of the 6th generation fighters have to produce electrical energy almost as much as they produce for propulsion!

 

[Bogeyman]

You are so right. The energy need for 6th generation aircraft has increased even more. The engines of the 6th generation airplanes have to produce electrical energy almost as much as they produce for propulsion!

The US now aims to convert the engine's temperature to electricity on F-35 combat fighter and to provide extra power to the aircraft. There are plenty of resources if you want. Just take the cost into account.

 

[Huelague]

Is it possible that TFX will have a passive Radar?

 

[TheInsider]

TF-X and F-16 AESA radar can also act as a passive radar(listening mode).

 

[Lonewolf]

TF-X and F-16 AESA radar can also act as a passive radar(listening mode).

Imo passive sensor and active sensor are completely different , you can make a system with both features but that's just compact addition of two systems

 

[Lonewolf]

Is it possible that TFX will have a passive Radar?

It can have passive array in leading edge if you deveolp it

 

[Yasar_TR]

Is it possible that TFX will have a passive Radar?

I think you mean Passive Electronically-Scanned Array ; PESA.
They are quite different to AESA radars. Is the nose cone of TFX suitable for a PESA? That is another question!
But I think the advantages of a good GaN based Aesa radar will outweigh the advantages of a PESA radar.
PESA radars are not as accurate as AESA radars. Their long ranges is not enough reason to opt for them, in my view. Field Of View restrictions of an AESA radar can be compensated by moving it. AESA radars’ multiple TR modules make them more reliable.
I don’t think TurAF will choose a PESA radar for TFX.

 

[TheInsider]

I don't think he meant PESA. What he probably meant is listening, recognizing, analyzing, and classifying radar signals. PESA is a type of active radar it emits signals. Passive radars don't emit RF signals.

 

[Nilgiri]

Yes any AESA radar by default has a passive (receive only) mode.

People sometimes assume PESA means the whole system is passive only...but that is not the case.

It is very much has an emitter mode too, it just comes from a separate radio transmitter that is split up...hence the array itself is passive....but the system is very much transmit + receive like any other radar.....and of course can have transmit-only and receive-only modes depending on what you want to do.

AESA, each module in the array is a separate transmitter as well (on top of being a separate receiver like PESA)...hence the array is "active".

Some further info that might be of interest:

Indian RnD Ecosystems Analysis

Any material you suggest which shown how radar and seeks functions. I read about doppler but no idea abour ASEA , PESA radars Quite complex systems , have came across a few in past ,will try to find it back . For basics they use interference phenomenon of em waves . I could go to some...

defencehub.live

 

[Lonewolf]

Yes any AESA radar by default has a passive (receive only) mode.

People sometimes assume PESA means the whole system is passive only...but that is not the case.

It is very much has an emitter mode too, it just comes from a separate radio transmitter that is split up...hence the array itself is passive....but the system is very much transmit + receive like any other radar.....and of course can have transmit-only and receive-only modes depending on what you want to do.

AESA, each module in the array is a separate transmitter as well (on top of being a separate receiver like PESA)...hence the array is "active".

Some further info that might be of interest:

Indian RnD Ecosystems Analysis

Any material you suggest which shown how radar and seeks functions. I read about doppler but no idea abour ASEA , PESA radars Quite complex systems , have came across a few in past ,will try to find it back . For basics they use interference phenomenon of em waves . I could go to some...

defencehub.live

As per my info .

Aesa can listen some designated frequency , and receive such .

It's pre decided what it's going to listen to , any random frequency is considered noise and thus removed , that's why radar are optimised for high gains so that the required frequency don't get removed in noise .

When received it goes through converter and further interpretation take place

 

[Lonewolf]

Do turkey have a laser designator pod in plan ?

 

[Huelague]

As far as I know, F-22 has a passive radar (not PESA).

 

[Huelague]

Do turkey have a laser designator pod in plan ?

Like Aselpod?

 

[Lonewolf]

As far as I know, F-22 has a passive radar (not PESA).

Passive array unit , main radar is still aesa .

Lemme explain it in simple way , the radar thing is a quite general term for something that radiate and receive .

Passive array are placed on whole body on f 22 at specific point so that if some radar release frequency it detects it , basically a radar warning receiver but based on interference phenomenon to do tracking also in addition to alert , so you are using enemy's radar to locate him .


The thing you are talking about is a rwr of new generation

 

[Nilgiri]

As per my info .

Aesa can listen some designated frequency , and receive such .

It's pre decided what it's going to listen to , any random frequency is considered noise and thus removed , that's why radar are optimised for high gains so that the required frequency don't get removed in noise .

When received it goes through converter and further interpretation take place

Yes these are all part of the data handling optimization done downstream.

Computation capacity and time are resources like any other and aviation wise are heavily limited by mass/volume budget on top....compared to say what naval and land AESAs have available.

Thus you need robust ELINT derived database (esp for likeliest adversaries) for your AESA assets to know what signatures are of highest importance....to make maximum use of the AESA and avionics package more broadly.

Similar thing is done for ECM pods and architecture (though these are optimised to missiles generally).

It is not exactly strictly pre-decided (since opponent systems can frequency hop/frequency spread with their own AESAs)....but there would be a matrix that can analyse patterns and small amplitudes regarding this ...which govern the algorithms underneath the modes given to the pilot and/or AI.

i.e all the stuff thats largely "automated" once a larger filter strategy/parameter is chosen for the mission itself (i.e what regimen of listening/transmitting you think is most relevant w.r.t other assets accompanying you).

This was and is done in doppler radars as well....AESA can just do it far better given there is far less restriction from antenna dimension, available power and (mechanical) actuation needs. AESA basically fits hand in glove (radar wise) with the nature of computational power we have now.

 

[Yasar_TR]

As far as I know, F-22 has a passive radar (not PESA).

I think F22 Raptor uses AN/APG77v1 Aesa radar with GaAs TR modules. Again as per @TheInsider pointed out, it can be used passively. This radar gives SAR/GMTI functionality to the aircraft.

 

[Turko]

Could we say "radar warning systems are also passive radars"
Or passive radars can identify further frequencies than usual radar signals which fighters' radars emit?