TR Naval Programs

what

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So Company MUST be SOLD-> But Company is Military one with Strategic imporntants so -> EU Germany and France Will MUST BUY IT
IF this buying of Italy company by EU was NOT want to buy it. Then be 100% sure that china or russia or other will BUY IT

Except that Leonardo is a private company, 70% of the shares are not owned by the Italian government. The Italian government wont see a single cent of the money, I doubt that they will distribute anything in dividends to its owners but reinvest.

 

TheInsider

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Thanks for the reply.
However comparing 80rounds per minute gun’s barrel life to a 120 rounds per minute gun is not fair. Slower gun should inherently have a longer barrel life anyway. I know that MKE has been developing a very long lasting coating for the gun barrels and improving the gun barrel life. So when MKE produces the 120 rounds per minute version and better Super Rapido’s barrel life , then this argument will be more valid.
TCG Kinaliada has Genesis system and also has Super Rapido. Are you saying that TCG Kinaliada’s Genesis system can’t control it’s main gun?
Leonardo claims that the Super Rapido has a “Digital Control Console”.

It is a fact that, in the US when tested, standard Oto Melara Gun at sustained firing, almost self destroyed. With the new Super Rapido, they claim they have resolved these issues and made a more stable, lighter and precise gun.
Being one of the most common users of this gun, and MKE making certain parts of it, I can envisage us making a very capable gun with a number of improvements over the “Compact” version.
MKE gun barrel has a life of 2500 shots. Super Rapids barrel has around 1700-1800. MKE gun is completely digital. This means it has encoders and servos rather than hydraulics(in fact MKE gun has both hydraulic and servos in case servos fail) super rapid doesn't have that and it is not a completely digital system. Having a digital console doesn't mean it is completely digital from one end to the other. MKE gun is completely digital from the console to the gun barrel. Everything can be monitored from the command console. This is also the reason the MKE gun is more precise and has better stabilization.
 

Saithan

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Well, I'm glad to hear good news from MKE and hope the company can transform to a topnotch defense company in all layers.
 

Anmdt

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Any benefits over Aselsan's STAMP II ?
Probably more local content and a lower price.

I am not sure why would Navy pick something and ASFAT sign contract for something that hasn't even made a debut or tested. I remember how hard they have been on Aselsan while Stamp was being developed and tested and now Unirobotics have been awarded an order for a weapon system which is not yet existing or not proven to meet the requirements. It is good to have different manufacturers and i am sure Unirobotics will be more aggressive in exports compared to the Aselsan.

I think, Aselsan's stamp can easily use Canik's 12.7 mm MG?
 

Tornadoss

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Probably more local content and a lower price.

I am not sure why would Navy pick something and ASFAT sign contract for something that hasn't even made a debut or tested. I remember how hard they have been on Aselsan while Stamp was being developed and tested and now Unirobotics have been awarded an order for a weapon system which is not yet existing or not proven to meet the requirements. It is good to have different manufacturers and i am sure Unirobotics will be more aggressive in exports compared to the Aselsan.

I think, Aselsan's stamp can easily use Canik's 12.7 mm MG?
What about optics? How good are they compared to Aselsan? I guess they will outsource from some other company. I checked their products and there is nothing much.
And, are there any products used by TAF currently?
 

Anmdt

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What about optics? How good are they compared to Aselsan? I guess they will outsource from some other company. I checked their products and there is nothing much.
And, are there any products used by TAF currently?
I have no comments on this but it is wrong in so many ways. The weapon system is already made and available locally and it makes no point to award a contract for non-existent product for a duplicate. They could get Tubitak or SSB's R&D support or incentives, develop the system and then offer it to ASFAT.

Unirobotics is a JV of Unidef and Omur Bac (an enterprenaur). How good they are compared to Aselsan? I think the answer is obvious.

There is something fishy, but let them finish the gun and let us see the performance, if they make it happen Turkey will add one more company that can produce stabilized weapon
 

Huelague

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That's only better, would mean we have a perfect synergy in our defense industry. Exactly what we want.
Synergy is one thing. Corruption, nepotism and inability another (regarding to MKEK). Companies must work together (synergy) but you have to able to do your job.
 

Cypro

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I have no comments on this but it is wrong in so many ways. The weapon system is already made and available locally and it makes no point to award a contract for non-existent product for a duplicate. They could get Tubitak or SSB's R&D support or incentives, develop the system and then offer it to ASFAT.

Unirobotics is a JV of Unidef and Omur Bac (an enterprenaur). How good they are compared to Aselsan? I think the answer is obvious.

There is something fishy, but let them finish the gun and let us see the performance, if they make it happen Turkey will add one more company that can produce stabilized weapon

It smells like another corruption attempt. Aselsan's product is matured, developed over years and it is "Aselsan". No way a newcomer could be better with non-proven product.
 

Agha Sher

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Probably more local content and a lower price.

I am not sure why would Navy pick something and ASFAT sign contract for something that hasn't even made a debut or tested. I remember how hard they have been on Aselsan while Stamp was being developed and tested and now Unirobotics have been awarded an order for a weapon system which is not yet existing or not proven to meet the requirements. It is good to have different manufacturers and i am sure Unirobotics will be more aggressive in exports compared to the Aselsan.

I think, Aselsan's stamp can easily use Canik's 12.7 mm MG?

Maybe Turkey is trying to increase the number of defence companies by helping some cheaper companies. This could lead to increased defence exports and give Aselsan some much needed spare capacity.
 

Ecderha

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It smells like another corruption attempt. Aselsan's product is matured, developed over years and it is "Aselsan". No way a newcomer could be better with non-proven product.
It is not all time corruption!.
Think about other perspectives. Like There are Planned projects which ASELSAN have to start, but they can NOT. Why? beacuse they did not have enough people to be shifted to the new project.
-So one of options CAN be officals say lets give a chance to other companies this will provide ASELSAN poeple a option to shift those teams to start work on new projects.

ASELSAN,TEI,TAI etc.............. All are working at high capacity (people). I keep see from media that they NEED more more poeple :)
 

Cypro

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It is not all time corruption!.
Think about other perspectives. Like There are Planned projects which ASELSAN have to start, but they can NOT. Why did not have enough people to be shifted to the new project.
-So one of options CAN be officals say lets give a chance to other companies this will provide ASELSAN poeple a option to shift those teams to start work on new projects.

ASELSAN,TEI,TAI etc.............. All are working at high capacity (people). I keep see from media that they NEED more more poeple :)

Why would Aselsan need to assign engineers on already completed product :) I am thinking from all sides and still finding it suspicious..
 

Ecderha

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Why would Aselsan need to assign engineers on already completed product :) I am thinking from all sides and still finding it suspicious..
You need to provide people to produce something-> they need you engineers why? -> if there is new platform or something which araise -> engineers need to go there and it always start -> Analysis-> Fix-> Test-> Accept repeat. TIME consuming! There is HIGH demand at moment there is also Prio projects where HIGH tech and teams like ASELSAN company are assigned to DO. How this gonna START if you teams are already BUSY!?
 

Saithan

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Maybe the new unknown company is a foreign company that wants to sell their products in Turkey and thus started a new company in Turkey. Which means the product is already known and tested. It’s just being marketed under a new name and company.

perfect way to hoodwink Turkish public to think it’s a domestic product.
 

Anmdt

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It is not all time corruption!.
Think about other perspectives. Like There are Planned projects which ASELSAN have to start, but they can NOT. Why? beacuse they did not have enough people to be shifted to the new project.
-So one of options CAN be officals say lets give a chance to other companies this will provide ASELSAN poeple a option to shift those teams to start work on new projects.

ASELSAN,TEI,TAI etc.............. All are working at high capacity (people). I keep see from media that they NEED more more poeple :)
Check out who produces the stabilized turrets in other countries, do they face any shortages despite of being a large company?

Plus Aselsan had to form that division unwillingly in 2000s, it has been founded matured and became a well known brand worldwide where navies started to pick Aselsan's weapon systems by preference. Why should Aselsan think that division is a burden?
You need to provide people to produce something-> they need you engineers why? -> if there is new platform or something which araise -> engineers need to go there and it always start -> Analysis-> Fix-> Test-> Accept repeat. TIME consuming! There is HIGH demand at moment there is also Prio projects where HIGH tech and teams like ASELSAN company are assigned to DO. How this gonna START if you teams are already BUSY!?
Again, all aselsan needs to do is produce, assemble and deliver a product that they have been making since 2010 there won't be any R&D or testing procedures for this well known product. The production line exists, personnel exists, all they need is orders to make some deliveries.

It doesnt involve steps like you have mentioned, it is quite straightforward like a serial production. It is literally, 'make, test for quality and qualification, deliver'. It is a well known product it even rarely needs a fix after installed aboard.

They have delivered 30-40 weapon systems to Turkmenistan in a few years back in 2010s. Which shows the production line has a decent capacity and low failure rate.

Maybe the new unknown company is a foreign company that wants to sell their products in Turkey and thus started a new company in Turkey. Which means the product is already known and tested. It’s just being marketed under a new name and company.

perfect way to hoodwink Turkish public to think it’s a domestic product.
This is what i am afraid of, their time is very limited to make the first pair of the guns. If not the platform itself they might be getting control boards and software from abroad to make it ready for trials in 15-18 months.

In such deals the Navy should require the source code of the control systems to prove the authenticity, they used to do it earlier for something else.
 

Saithan

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I am thinking the discount given is so big the politicians go for that product. It’s history repeating itself. The French pick their own suppliers given any chance. But corrupt politicians are narrowminded as usual.
 
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