Malaysia LCA Program News & Discussion

Cabatli_TR

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Malaysian LCA Tender requirements:
  • 8 aircraft advanced jet trainer
  • 10 aircraft combat aircraft with nose radar and BVR
  • Supersonic speed
  • BVR capability
  • %30 local production
  • Cost: 4 billion RM- 2 billion RM will ve paid via oil product trade
  • Schedule: 35 months after the contract

Contenders:
  • Russia Mig-35
  • India LCA
  • Turkey Hürjet
  • China L15
  • Korea F50:
  • Italy M346
 

Indos

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TAI office in Malaysia is related to this one, Hurjet is competing in Malaysia LCA tender despite hasnt rolled out any prototype yet. If Malaysia agrees on this, it means Malaysia LCA acquisition will be delayed in much longer time

 

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The interested bidders are understood to be Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) partnering with local company Kemalak Systems Sdn Bhd to offer the FA 50 jet fighter; Turkey Aerospace Industries, offering its LCA known as Hürjet; China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corp (Catic), with its L-15 fighter jet; Italy’s Leonardo, with its M-346 planes; India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, with its Tejas fighter; and Aerospace Technology Systems Corp Sdn Bhd — which is 71.43%-controlled by Tan Sri Ahmad Johan’s National Aerospace and Defence Industries Sdn Bhd (Nadi), 23% by a company called Russian Aircraft and 4.76% by another Russian outfit Rosoboronexport — offering MIG 35 planes.

Interestingly enough, Pakistan was touted to be a favourite to bag the LCA contract in Malaysia with its JF-17 Thunder fighter jet, but it did not participate in the bid.
 

Zafer

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I wonder what made anyone wonder if TAI would give up. TAI is the strongest of the contenders. The other two front runners India and Korea have major drawbacks like Indian AESA radar is Israeli made and Korea has no plans to meet the 30% local input requirement while TAI is only behind a comfortable timeline by around half a year.
 
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Indos

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I wonder what made anyone wonder if TAI would give up. TAI is the strongest of the contenders. The other two front runners India and Korea have major drawbacks like Indian AESA radar is Israeli made and Korea has no plans to meet the 30% local input requirement while TAI is only behind a comfortable timeline buy around half a year.

Korea and India have already had LCA that has been in service for years, saying TAI is the strongest contender shows that you are not a fair person, having too much bias
 

Agha Sher

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Korea and India have already had LCA that has been in service for years, saying TAI is the strongest contender shows that you are not a fair person, having too much bias

There is nothing about being biased here. Both countries have expressed concrete interest in closer defence cooperation. TAI has a quite big establishment in Malaysia and Hürjet offers a lot to both countries. Hürjet is the strongest contender.
 

Zafer

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Korea and India have already had LCA that has been in service for years, saying TAI is the strongest contender shows that you are not a fair person, having too much bias
Indian plane hasn't been sold to any other country than India since it first appeared half a decade ago. Koreans highly likely will not meet the 30% Malaysian input requirement.

Hürjet is brand new, sporting the latest technology and with nearly all components coming from Turkey except for the engine. And it has the opportunity for tuning for any Malaysian requirement.

Indian plane has the AESA radar made by Israel and some other foreign components when Israel does not even have diplomatic relationships with Malaysia. And the Indian sentiment being against anything Muslim will not help either.
 
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Zafer

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A decision will be made by Malaysia by early April at a time by which Hürjet will emerge as whole for anyone to see and feel. And TAI will have at least 3 whole years to make the deliveries.
 

NitricAcid

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Regarding the Malaysian tender Temil Kotil said:

"In our youth, an organization had to have a history to be able to make airplanes. It was necessary to have built airplanes before, to carry out productions and tests accordingly. This was the situation in the 1970s, 50 years have passed. Engineering software is much more capable, they have developed over time. Artificial intelligence works. easier, history is no longer needed. Because when simulating on the computer, results are very close to reality. These are tested in the wind tunnel. Everyone can do it, but you have to want to do it. We do these because our President has the acumen. It takes acumen, financing, desire and young staff. We trust Hürjet. We compete with everyone, we are in every tender. We are also in Malaysian tender. We go and tell the authorities. We have not made such an offer and withdrawn.I went to either 3 times, now I will make my fourth trip and we believe in our product."
 

Zafer

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Regarding the Malaysian tender Temil Kotil said:

"In our youth, an organization had to have a history to be able to make airplanes. It was necessary to have built airplanes before, to carry out productions and tests accordingly. This was the situation in the 1970s, 50 years have passed. Engineering software is much more capable, they have developed over time. Artificial intelligence works. easier, history is no longer needed. Because when simulating on the computer, results are very close to reality. These are tested in the wind tunnel. Everyone can do it, but you have to want to do it. We do these because our President has the acumen. It takes acumen, financing, desire and young staff. We trust Hürjet. We compete with everyone, we are in every tender. We are also in Malaysian tender. We go and tell the authorities. We have not made such an offer and withdrawn.I went to either 3 times, now I will make my fourth trip and we believe in our product."
They believe in their product which is also evident from the fact that they also entered the US Air Force trainer tender.
 

Zafer

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+ Turkish government has already placed an order for the Hürjet trainer.
+ Hürjet offers 20% longer range (by design)
- The KAI FA-50 is fitted with an Israeli radar.
 

Nilgiri

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Hope mods bear with me on this one....I'd rather just give my thoughts on some of the last few replies (regd Hurjet, Malaysia LCA tender and confluence with politics/off-topic stuff, other factors and defence deals in general) in one larger way rather than smaller repetitive chunks.

Korea and India have already had LCA that has been in service for years, saying TAI is the strongest contender shows that you are not a fair person, having too much bias

In addition to the existing proven deployment and the offset package (much more than 30% req since its apparently a full MRO depot being offered)

There are things like proven history of RMAF training inside India, an example of which already came up in the forum:

India is also very large buyer of Malaysian palm oil (in fact the largest) and can easily do barter on that front given Malaysian govt has expressed interest in (i.e not use USD forex). There are rumours around that already an Indian SOE has been made to prepare to handle this with Malaysian exporters and the govt there.

Uttam radar will also be coming online if the ELTA radar is issue for malaysia.

Jumping the gun and claiming "strongest contender" is objectively premature for Hurjet.

All have their pros and cons at this stage, it depends how Malaysia prioritises them and the timeline pressure too.

Those famous words (in this thread) are so simple: Let us see...

And the Indian sentiment being against anything Muslim will not help either.

This is topic derailment and is also false to begin with.

Indian past, current and future trade and cultural exchange with larger Muslim world is immense and strong.

You brought up ISRO some time back, what was the religion of its greatest technological mind?...revered by the whole nation today and forever.

If you do not know much on Indian muslims past and ongoing contributions to their nation (and their sacrifices in war to defend it) and the strong faith they repose in it past all political and societal churn....that is faulty but that is on you.

The RMAF deep training with IAF is just one small example of it in foreign relation domain pertinent to this issue of LCA tender.

I mean do you know backdrop of India-Malaysia relations (and India-ASEAN) to begin with in any measure?

You been to Malaysia to begin with? Know Malaysians?

I will not get into India-GCC, India-Arab and India-Iran relations and many such more broadly (i.e beyond the subcontinent) to further add to this.

One ought not to judge selectively w.r.t some perceived portion of political administration and complicated internal discourses (which Turkey is no stranger to itself w.r.t how foreigners may selectively interpret and judge such).

We ought to align to larger evidence + fact based society as first basis surely?

i.e Separate whatever selective "sentiment" assertion/perception of whatever political dispensation from larger entity of the nation?

Bangladesh certainly didn't (let such linger to today) when the Erdogan administration interfered in Bangladesh internal judicial process of prosecuting and hanging war criminals of its liberation war (that came about by one of the worst extreme criminal, hypocritical, islamist and takfiri episodes of scale in 20th century).

Should BD have instead interpreted such action (from TR admin) as the larger representation/sentiment from Turkey instead?

Instead of understanding the difference between political executive and larger country?

TR ambassador and representatives have since visited BD liberation war museuem and memorials a number of times you know.

Maybe you should try know the significance of that given the earlier clear mistake by Erdogan's politics that caused dip in relations between the two countries for a while.

You all ought to remember that in each and every backdrop to TR export to BD in military sphere hopefully.

Do better next time. Don't derail like this.

One can certainly give positives of the precise topic/analysis/news (TF-X, Hurjet, other a/c projects of Turkey) from one's end and project optimism/confidence on it wherever and leave it at that.

If you want to talk about the other matters regarding India or off-topic confluence with this thread topic, its better you pick the right thread to do so.

We need not precipitate that stuff again here in this precise thread yet again for umpteenth time.

If you (or others) want to respond to any of this post (to discuss further), I suggest you quote it and reply in cay bachesi or indian coffee thread or similar.
 

Indos

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A decision will be made by Malaysia by early April at a time by which Hürjet will emerge as whole for anyone to see and feel. And TAI will have at least 3 whole years to make the deliveries.

@Nilgiri

Hurjet will only be roll out ( finished prototype 1) in early 2023, this is TAI latest official statement. It usually needs around a year to build first prototype of a plane, same thing happen with other program. Malaysia is also in a rush to acquire LCA to replace their Hawks squadron which has so many accidents, latest one is this year or late 2021 where one of their Hawk plane was crush.

This is why IMO the chance for Hurjet to win Malaysian tender is behind KAI Korea and Indian Tejas, unless Malaysian is ambitious enough with their aerospace sector and committed to make long term plan to produce plane since TAI offer domestic assembling there if they chose Hurjet, a good step if Malaysia is willing to go into that direction.

Something that Malaysian needs in order to have a complete Aerospace company are assembling and system integration capability and also design capability and experience where for those ones they are lacking. They are still at the moment parts manufacturing focus.
 

Zafer

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Hope mods bear with me on this one....I'd rather just give my thoughts on some of the last few replies (regd Hurjet, Malaysia LCA tender and confluence with politics/off-topic stuff, other factors and defence deals in general) in one larger way rather than smaller repetitive chunks.



In addition to the existing proven deployment and the offset package (much more than 30% req since its apparently a full MRO depot being offered)

There are things like proven history of RMAF training inside India, an example of which already came up in the forum:

India is also very large buyer of Malaysian palm oil (in fact the largest) and can easily do barter on that front given Malaysian govt has expressed interest in (i.e not use USD forex). There are rumours around that already an Indian SOE has been made to prepare to handle this with Malaysian exporters and the govt there.

Uttam radar will also be coming online if the ELTA radar is issue for malaysia.

Jumping the gun and claiming "strongest contender" is objectively premature for Hurjet.

All have their pros and cons at this stage, it depends how Malaysia prioritises them and the timeline pressure too.

Those famous words (in this thread) are so simple: Let us see...



This is topic derailment and is also false to begin with.

Indian past, current and future trade and cultural exchange with larger Muslim world is immense and strong.

You brought up ISRO some time back, what was the religion of its greatest technological mind?...revered by the whole nation today and forever.

If you do not know much on Indian muslims past and ongoing contributions to their nation (and their sacrifices in war to defend it) and the strong faith they repose in it past all political and societal churn....that is faulty but that is on you.

The RMAF deep training with IAF is just one small example of it in foreign relation domain pertinent to this issue of LCA tender.

I mean do you know backdrop of India-Malaysia relations (and India-ASEAN) to begin with in any measure?

You been to Malaysia to begin with? Know Malaysians?

I will not get into India-GCC, India-Arab and India-Iran relations and many such more broadly (i.e beyond the subcontinent) to further add to this.

One ought not to judge selectively w.r.t some perceived portion of political administration and complicated internal discourses (which Turkey is no stranger to itself w.r.t how foreigners may selectively interpret and judge such).

We ought to align to larger evidence + fact based society as first basis surely?

i.e Separate whatever selective "sentiment" assertion/perception of whatever political dispensation from larger entity of the nation?

Bangladesh certainly didn't (let such linger to today) when the Erdogan administration interfered in Bangladesh internal judicial process of prosecuting and hanging war criminals of its liberation war (that came about by one of the worst extreme criminal, hypocritical, islamist and takfiri episodes of scale in 20th century).

Should BD have instead interpreted such action (from TR admin) as the larger representation/sentiment from Turkey instead?

Instead of understanding the difference between political executive and larger country?

TR ambassador and representatives have since visited BD liberation war museuem and memorials a number of times you know.

Maybe you should try know the significance of that given the earlier clear mistake by Erdogan's politics that caused dip in relations between the two countries for a while.

You all ought to remember that in each and every backdrop to TR export to BD in military sphere hopefully.

Do better next time. Don't derail like this.

One can certainly give positives of the precise topic/analysis/news (TF-X, Hurjet, other a/c projects of Turkey) from one's end and project optimism/confidence on it wherever and leave it at that.

If you want to talk about the other matters regarding India or off-topic confluence with this thread topic, its better you pick the right thread to do so.

We need not precipitate that stuff again here in this precise thread yet again for umpteenth time.

If you (or others) want to respond to any of this post (to discuss further), I suggest you quote it and reply in cay bachesi or indian coffee thread or similar.
Your crumbling arguments do not amount to anything.
Tejas is a failure, its Mark 2 will roll out in 2022, a new beginning from zero with a lot of design changes.
After decades long history it is still experimental with Frankenstein components.
 
Last edited:

SavageKing456

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Hope mods bear with me on this one....I'd rather just give my thoughts on some of the last few replies (regd Hurjet, Malaysia LCA tender and confluence with politics/off-topic stuff, other factors and defence deals in general) in one larger way rather than smaller repetitive chunks.



In addition to the existing proven deployment and the offset package (much more than 30% req since its apparently a full MRO depot being offered)

There are things like proven history of RMAF training inside India, an example of which already came up in the forum:

India is also very large buyer of Malaysian palm oil (in fact the largest) and can easily do barter on that front given Malaysian govt has expressed interest in (i.e not use USD forex). There are rumours around that already an Indian SOE has been made to prepare to handle this with Malaysian exporters and the govt there.

Uttam radar will also be coming online if the ELTA radar is issue for malaysia.

Jumping the gun and claiming "strongest contender" is objectively premature for Hurjet.

All have their pros and cons at this stage, it depends how Malaysia prioritises them and the timeline pressure too.

Those famous words (in this thread) are so simple: Let us see...



This is topic derailment and is also false to begin with.

Indian past, current and future trade and cultural exchange with larger Muslim world is immense and strong.

You brought up ISRO some time back, what was the religion of its greatest technological mind?...revered by the whole nation today and forever.

If you do not know much on Indian muslims past and ongoing contributions to their nation (and their sacrifices in war to defend it) and the strong faith they repose in it past all political and societal churn....that is faulty but that is on you.

The RMAF deep training with IAF is just one small example of it in foreign relation domain pertinent to this issue of LCA tender.

I mean do you know backdrop of India-Malaysia relations (and India-ASEAN) to begin with in any measure?

You been to Malaysia to begin with? Know Malaysians?

I will not get into India-GCC, India-Arab and India-Iran relations and many such more broadly (i.e beyond the subcontinent) to further add to this.

One ought not to judge selectively w.r.t some perceived portion of political administration and complicated internal discourses (which Turkey is no stranger to itself w.r.t how foreigners may selectively interpret and judge such).

We ought to align to larger evidence + fact based society as first basis surely?

i.e Separate whatever selective "sentiment" assertion/perception of whatever political dispensation from larger entity of the nation?

Bangladesh certainly didn't (let such linger to today) when the Erdogan administration interfered in Bangladesh internal judicial process of prosecuting and hanging war criminals of its liberation war (that came about by one of the worst extreme criminal, hypocritical, islamist and takfiri episodes of scale in 20th century).

Should BD have instead interpreted such action (from TR admin) as the larger representation/sentiment from Turkey instead?

Instead of understanding the difference between political executive and larger country?

TR ambassador and representatives have since visited BD liberation war museuem and memorials a number of times you know.

Maybe you should try know the significance of that given the earlier clear mistake by Erdogan's politics that caused dip in relations between the two countries for a while.

You all ought to remember that in each and every backdrop to TR export to BD in military sphere hopefully.

Do better next time. Don't derail like this.

One can certainly give positives of the precise topic/analysis/news (TF-X, Hurjet, other a/c projects of Turkey) from one's end and project optimism/confidence on it wherever and leave it at that.

If you want to talk about the other matters regarding India or off-topic confluence with this thread topic, its better you pick the right thread to do so.

We need not precipitate that stuff again here in this precise thread yet again for umpteenth time.

If you (or others) want to respond to any of this post (to discuss further), I suggest you quote it and reply in cay bachesi or indian coffee thread or similar.
He's wrong about Israeli radar on tejas too
Uttam aesa radar is already developed
It's now matter of assembling in
 

Zapper

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Your crumbling arguments do not amount to anything.
Tejas is a failure, its Mark 2 will roll out in 2022, a new beginning from zero with a lot of design changes.
After decades long history it is still experimental with Frankenstein components.
Care to elaborate how exactly is Tejas a failure? Is it because you've fallen for our arch rival's narratives on pdf or like to come up with actual facts? IAF inducted almost all of the 40 orders Mk-1s' while the order for 83 Mk-1A's production has already started

In terms of the components, here is a rough comparison between the Gripen and Tejas Mk-1

1642398553581.png


Except for the engine, all other foreign components are being replaced with indigenous alternatives in Mk-2. While the initial batch of Mk-1A will feature EL/M-2052 AESA, the later ones will be fitted with Uttam AESA
 

Zapper

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He's wrong about Israeli radar on tejas too
Uttam aesa radar is already developed
It's now matter of assembling in
Here's the Uttam AESA already integrated and tested on the Tejas. I heard they're developing Uttam Mk-2 which would be smaller in size but increase in number of TRMs which'll go into MWF and TEDBF

1642399008594.png
 

Zapper

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The other two front runners India and Korea have major drawbacks like Indian AESA radar is Israeli made

Indian plane has the AESA radar made by Israel and some other foreign components when Israel does not even have diplomatic relationships with Malaysia
As stated in my previous post, India has developed, integrated and tested the Uttam Mk-1 AESA radar on the LCA Tejas while Uttam Mk-2 is under development for MWF (LCA Mk-2)

As for Israeli components, which primarily include radar and avionics...HAL/DRDO have already developed indigenous avionics and EW suite. They can be modified and fitted onto Mk1A if Malaysia requests it

Infact, HAL already stated they can replace all British components (primarily Martin Baker ejection seat & Cobham Radome) with alternatives if needed for the Argentinian tender
 

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