TR F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

Huelague

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It's not about crying, it's about how the US prevents even her tightest ally.

That should be a lesson for us.
Let’s be realistic here. If I (USA) support you (Israel) with all kind of capabilities (military aid, intelligence, economic, political..), You can expect from me, that I can’t allow you to open a competitor to my airway industries, with my money and technology support.
 

Nutuk

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Let’s be realistic here. If I (USA) support you (Israel) with all kind of capabilities (military aid, intelligence, economic, political..), You can expect from me, that I can’t allow you to open a competitor to my airway industries, with my money and technology support.
Well US did not only stop Israel but also Canada in the 50ties - 60ties.

In a strange way the US supports S. Korea (most likely to keep her as cornerstone against China).

Turkey is a bit in limbo, US might try to stop us (maybe not with 4th gen. Hurjet but I do expect some faul play in case of TFx)
 

NitricAcid

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Production begins at the National Combat Aircraft​

TUSAŞ General Manager Temel Kotil said, "The National Combat Aircraft will appear this year, you will see it physically, it will start the engine on March 18, 2023 and will start ground tests." said.​

Goksel Yildirim |27.01.2022

Production begins at the National Combat Aircraft


Ankara​

Turkish Aerospace Industries Inc. (TUSAŞ) is preparing to achieve significant successes in terms of both financial and original projects in 2022 and 2023.
TUSAŞ General Manager Temel Kotil made an assessment to the AA correspondent regarding the issues on the company's agenda and the developments in the projects carried out.
Stating that they are continuing the work for 2 Hürkuş aircraft to be exported to Niger and that they will deliver them in the summer, Kotil said, "The rest will come. We have offers to other countries." said. Expressing that they will deliver Hürkuş to the Turkish Air Force in February-March, Kotil said that they will also increase production.
Explaining that TAI is known for product development and prototypes, and that these processes are difficult and tiring, Kotil emphasized that all helicopters and airplanes, whose development work is ongoing, will come to the stage of mass production and delivery, like today's Atak helicopter and Hürkuş. Kotil said, "The future of this company is very bright. If nothing goes wrong, this company will stand out among its peers in the world." he said.
Expressing that the Hürkuş, which will be delivered to the Air Force, will be used in basic training and air-ground support missions, Kotil gave the following information:
"There are also systems that represent shots on it. In this respect, it will be multifunctional. (Works to lighten the Hürkuş) After making a product, we continue production by making different versions. It is necessary to produce better products every day. The production bench is the same, if you improve the design, it will be better. The product comes out. It will be the same for the National Combat Aircraft. Development continues as a natural process. (Armed version Hürkuş-C) That version is also being studied, but the main training aircraft we focus on is Hürkuş-B."

14 months left until the National Combat Aircraft leaves the hangar​

Providing information on the latest situation in the National Combat Aircraft Project, Kotil said, "This year, the aircraft will appear, you will see it physically, it will start the engine on March 18, 2023 and will start ground tests." used the phrases.
Stating that they have completed the concept design, carried out the wind tunnel tests, completed the external geometry and detailed analysis, Kotil said, "We are starting the production of the National Combat Aircraft. We will continue the structural analysis until the aircraft is delivered in 2028, we will put new sensors. We will see its first flight on March 18, 2025. We have 14 months left, the engine will start and it will come out of the hangar. The project is going well." made its assessment.
Kotil noted that the unit where the project was carried out, while it was a small unit under the Deputy General Manager of Aircraft, has become the largest unit of the company and will grow twice as much.

Philippines delivery will be completed, the number of attacks will reach 89​

Temel Kotil stated that they have delivered 69 Atak helicopters to the security forces within the scope of helicopter production and they will increase the number to 83 this year. Kotil said:

"We will also complete 6 Atak helicopters of the Philippines. Therefore, we are finishing 89 helicopters this year. We are working on how we can manufacture them abroad. Gökbey helicopter is being put into series. We are building 3 for the Gendarmerie, we will deliver them by the end of the year. We call the T70, a Sikorsky licensed Back". The production of Hawks continues. There will be a total of 109 helicopters. The helicopter equivalent of the National Combat Aircraft is the Atak-2 helicopter. It weighs 11 tons, can carry 1 ton of explosives, has a 30 millimeter cannon. The USA and the Russians have helicopters in this class. And that is 18 March 2023. We will fly it in Turkey, a very ambitious target. We are building a general-purpose helicopter with a capacity of 10 tons, carrying 21 people, and will operate behind the front."

Expressing that there is no new demand for the attack helicopter in the country, Kotil stated that they are working on Phase-2 to develop the helicopter, and that new phases may come in this regard.

Waiting for export to Pakistan continues​

Temel Kotil said that they will enable Turkey and friendly countries to establish a strong fleet with the helicopters they will produce.

Commenting on the latest situation in the sale of Atak helicopters to Pakistan, Kotil said, "We are waiting for approval from the US Congress. If the engine comes, we will manufacture and supply the helicopters. Our opponent is the Chinese. It is up to the preference of the Americans, whether to sell the Atak helicopter or the Chinese helicopter to Pakistan? "They chose it because we are the owner of the engine. An export license has not yet been received for the engine. We are forwarding our demands to the US side, but there is no other decision yet." said.

Kotil stated that the first delivery of Turkey's first helicopter engine with 1600 horsepower developed by TEI is expected to be made by the end of 2024 or the beginning of 2025.

Anka is preparing for delivery to Kazakhstan​

Reminding that they delivered the unmanned aerial vehicle Anka to Tunisia as part of its first export, Kotil said that they are preparing for delivery to Kazakhstan as well, and that they will do so in a few months. Expressing that they made additional offers and held talks with new countries, Kotil said, "Turkey has no dependency on UAVs at the moment. We started using the domestic engine in Anka. Turkey's dependence on foreign UAVs is zero. This is a zero good thing. Zero. We are developing Anka a little more every day. It helps Turkey and friendly countries in mass production." he said.

Explaining that they also carry out export activities on Aksungur, Kotil said, "Turkey, as Baykar and TUSAŞ, has proven itself in the world. It's up to our manufacturing ability. Demand is high, delivery is up to our production speed. We are in such a beautiful place." made its assessment.

Sharing the knowledge that the development of the high-speed target aircraft Şimşek and the design work for the supersonic speed unmanned aerial vehicle Göksungur are ongoing, Kotil emphasized that as a company, they focus on the mass production of their original products.

"Time to step on the gas"​

Temel Kotil stated that due to the impact of the Kovid-19 epidemic, there were contractions in the aviation industry, especially in the field of civil aviation, that many companies were laying off staff, and that they became stronger by adding these people to their staff.

Expressing that a capacity problem emerged with the disappearance of the effects of the epidemic, Kotil said:

Mass production and aircraft structural are the part of us where we make money. Besides, you will see that our original products are finished."
 

Crab

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hurkus-lar-ilk-kez-goruntulendi-ates-filo-ya-teslim-edilmek-uzere-gun-sayiliyor-1643444086.jpg



18(27).jpg


17(29).jpg



HÜRKUŞ Air Ground Integration Aircraft (HYEU)
 
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Agha Sher

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View attachment 39186


View attachment 39187

View attachment 39188

HÜRKUŞ Air Ground Integration Aircraft (HYEU)

what is an air ground integration aircraft?
 

Merzifonlu

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what is an air ground integration aircraft?
Simple. The idea of fitting mission for a failed aircraft. :)

Hürkuş was a difficult aircraft to use for training aircraft and insufficient ammunition carrying capacity for CAS missions. Although it was understood to be a unsuccessful aircraft, 15 were produced! So they (some morons) managed to turn a financial loss that hasn't occurred yet into a real financial loss! If it had remained only as a research project, it would have been beneficial for TAI.

For this reason, it was decided to use it in the training of special forces members marking targets. And they gave it a cool name too! "Air Ground Integration Aircraft" :)

This freak aircraft needs to be redesigned. If it is to be used as a training aircraft, it should be an aircraft that student pilots can easily use. If it is for CAS missions, then it should carry a lot of ammunition and be resistant to enemy fire.

The reason why this project failed is because the authorities that set the requirements were incompetent. They demanded opposite features together. They said it should be a trainer but also agile like a fighter jet.
 
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Crab

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Simple. The idea of fitting mission for a failed aircraft. :)

Hürkuş was a difficult aircraft to use for training aircraft and insufficient ammunition carrying capacity for CAS missions. Although it was understood to be a unsuccessful aircraft, 15 were produced! So they (some morons) managed to turn a financial loss that hasn't occurred yet into a real financial loss! If it had remained only as a research project, it would have been beneficial for TAI.

For this reason, it was decided to use it in the training of special forces members marking targets. And they gave it a cool name too! "Air Ground Integration Aircraft" :)

This freak aircraft needs to be redesigned. If it is to be used as a training aircraft, it should be an aircraft that student pilots can easily use. If it is for CAS missions, then it should carry a lot of ammunition and be resistant to enemy fire.

The reason why this project failed is because the authorities that set the requirements were incompetent. They demanded opposite features together. They said it should be a trainer but also agile like a fighter jet.

The way variants structured is designed to be flexible to modification and comprehensive enough to adjust pilots to advanced and/or lead-in fighter trainer jets along with advanced simulators. First version Hurkus used mainly aluminium for structure and with new version is being replaced with composite materials, resulting in lighter, higher performance aircraft. My guess is that changes in F-35 acquisition, F-16 modernization etc. changed the medium term need for Hurkus trainer variant as KT-1 fleet was seen sufficient. Cost-performance of new version was good enough to be considered, along with other factors such as new TAI composite factory opening.
 
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TheInsider

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The way variants structured is designed to be flexible to modification and comprehensive enough to adjust pilots to advanced and/or lead-in fighter trainer jets along with advanced simulators. First version Hurkus used mainly aluminium for structure and with new version is being replaced with composite materials, resulting in lighter, higher performance aircraft. My guess is that changes in F-35 acquisition, F-16 modernization etc. changed the medium term need for Hurkus trainer variant as KT-1 fleet was seen sufficient. Cost-performance of new version was good enough to be considered, along with other factors such as new TAI composite factory opening.
This is wrong the problem with Hürkuş is it has an unnecessary amount of performance so much that certain maneuvers are very hard to do at very low speeds. The plane is optimized too much for high speeds and agility. This is not good for rookie pilots in training.
 

Merzifonlu

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This is wrong the problem with Hürkuş is it has an unnecessary amount of performance so much that certain maneuvers are very hard to do at very low speeds. The plane is optimized too much for high speeds and agility. This is not good for rookie pilots in training.
+1 Also not suitable for CAS tasks. That's why I said "freak aircraft".
 

TheInsider

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CAS limitations can be addressed with the use of composite parts and advances in miniature lethal munitions. Currently, Hürkuş has a very low composite part ratio. Over 1 ton of weapons can easily be carried with Hürkuş with a little effort.
MTOW of Hürkuş-C is 4550kg
Fuel Capacity is 544kg
Payload 750kg
The empty weight is 3256kg

With the introduction of the composite body, a lot of weight savings from the empty weight can be allocated to the payload.
 

dustdevil

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It is not a dive bomber or A-10 which needs thick armor nor a Cessna-172 to babysit rookie pilots. Please show some respect for our first contemporary domestic aircraft and at least don’t call it a “failure” or “freak”.

Do you think all aircraft are/born perfect?
 

Crab

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+1 Also not suitable for CAS tasks. That's why I said "freak aircraft".

Hurkus-C is mainly for export at this point. Drone programs such as Akinci, Aksungur lowered the need for aircraft like Hurkus-C. The CAS concept would have to evolve network-supported operations. Lowered payload is sufficient considering the availability smart munitions.
 

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CAS concept, with current AD systems may no longer be feasible. For a plane to be effective at close air support, it needs to be as fast as a Panavia Tornado at sea level (1482km/hr) and as robust as an A10. Still they will fall prey to most modern AD systems.
During first gulf war, 3 Tornados were lost the first few days, until ground radar systems were neutralised.
Many A10s have returned to base almost unflyable, but 6 A10s have been shot down or crashed due to combat during first gulf war.
Since the 90’s , the air warfare has changed and evolved. Typhoon has been employed in place of tornado with totally different concept.
Smart bombs that can be delivered with pinpoint accuracy from stand off distances, have negated the reason to put both the plane and the pilot in the line of fire. Use of UCAVs have changed this concept further thanks to us.
So instead of CAS planes, it will probably be most likely that we will have the era of Light Attack Crafts. And that they they will prevail over CAS planes.
When a plane like Hurjet with around 3000kg payload and Aesa radar can be used to deploy from stand off distances and altitudes with KGK fitted MK81 or 82s as well as smart bombs like Kuzgun for precision and cost effective bombing, there may be no need for “close” air support.
 
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Zafer

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Hürkus is good as a cheaper solution for nations with terror problems. The same way its main competitor Super Tucano is.
 
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dustdevil

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Close Air Support (CAS) does not mean aircraft should be at low altitude for the mission. Hürkuş can do it from a higher altitude with good sensors and smart bombs, even at stand-off distances.

DoD definition from another website:


Close air support (CAS) is air action by fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft against hostile targets that are in close proximity to friendly forces and requires detailed integration of each air mission with the fire and movement of those forces.

Department of Defense Joint Publication 3-09.3



Surely (hopefully) we will not use Hürkuş like an A-10 in this mission if anti-air threats are present.
 

Yasar_TR

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Hürjet is good as a cheaper solution for nations with terror problems. The same way its main competitor Super Tucano is.
Are you sure? Super Tucano is a propeller driven slow plane.
Hurjet is as the namesake is a JET plane.😀
I guess you meant Hurkus!
 

Yasar_TR

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Close Air Support (CAS) does not mean aircraft should be at low altitude for the mission. Hürkuş can do it from a higher altitude with good sensors and smart bombs, even at stand-off distances.
The notion of close air support has always been low altitude flight and dive bombing until lately, like the ones performed by A10s and Tornados in the gulf war.
Bombing enemy positions near friendlies is the act of CAS. But it has always been done by low altitude flight runs in the absence of smart bombs.
Yet even a B52 at very high altitude can give CAS to friendly ground units if it’s bombs wouldn’t stray in to friendly areas.
But as smart bombs become more cost effective, the need to get close is diminishing.
As I have written in my post, this tendency is changing. But Hurkus can not perform stand off air support in the real sense of the word. Even if it is at high altitude (which is max 30000ft with a penalty of payload) it is a slow plane and will be in the range of many medium range AD systems.
A Hurjet with long range missiles like Som-J or KGK can perform these duties much better from hundreds of kilometres away. KGK works better and goes longer if released at at high altitudes (40000+ft) and speeds that no hurkus can reach.
Yes Hurkus may carry some smart bombs. But the range of those bombs will never be the same as those fired from a supersonic Hurjet. In fact in most cases, Hurkus will be within range of enemy AD systems. Also being slow means it can run away at speed either.
In reality a pilotless Akinci will do a much better and safer job than a Hurkus. Albeit not as good as a Hurjet.
 

Crab

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The notion of close air support has always been low altitude flight and dive bombing until lately, like the ones performed by A10s and Tornados in the gulf war.
Bombing enemy positions near friendlies is the act of CAS. But it has always been done by low altitude flight runs in the absence of smart bombs.
Yet even a B52 at very high altitude can give CAS to friendly ground units if it’s bombs wouldn’t stray in to friendly areas.
But as smart bombs become more cost effective, the need to get close is diminishing.
As I have written in my post, this tendency is changing. But Hurkus can not perform stand off air support in the real sense of the word. Even if it is at high altitude (which is max 30000ft with a penalty of payload) it is a slow plane and will be in the range of many medium range AD systems.
A Hurjet with long range missiles like Som-J or KGK can perform these duties much better from hundreds of kilometres away. KGK works better and goes longer if released at at high altitudes (40000+ft) and speeds that no hurkus can reach.
Yes Hurkus may carry some smart bombs. But the range of those bombs will never be the same as those fired from a supersonic Hurjet. In fact in most cases, Hurkus will be within range of enemy AD systems. Also being slow means it can run away at speed either.

U.S CAS concept shifted with Iraq post-invasion insurgency and Afghanistan insurgency. US SOCOM still acquiring manned turboprop CAS aircraft despite Air Force ending the LAAR program. Modern conflicts are mostly low intensity proxy conflicts where opposing AD capabilities are mostly Manpads and/or dated AD systems. Hurkus would not be in the range of AD systems because it would not be there in the first place. It would be an intelligence failure otherwise. ATAK operates under AD threat environment successfully, most important factor being prior intel provided by drones and ground units etc.
 

TheInsider

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IMHO studies on Hürkuş should continue. An unmanned CAS version might be a good move. Without the whole cockpit(Hürkuş-C has cockpit armor which weighs a lot), pilots, and life support systems, and with massive composite use, a huge amount of ammo can be carried on Hürkuş-C. Such a UCAV can carry multiple heavy bombs such as Mk-83 and Mk84. It should have a 5-8 hour endurance, a 2000kg+ payload, and a 500-600km/h speed which means it can travel 250-300km at half an hour to immediately strike a target with heavy bombs.

Hürkuş UCAV can fill a very specific role inside the Türkish UAV family.

TB-2 slow, very light payload (150kg), high endurance
Anka slow, light payload(350kg), high endurance
Aksungur slow, medium payload(750kg), very high endurance
Akıncı medium speed(350km/h), high payload(1500kg), high endurance
Hürkuş UCAV fast(500-600km/h), very high payload(2000kg), medium endurance (5 pylons for 4x Mk83+ 1xMAM-T or 1xMk84, 2xMk83, 2xMAM-T or 8x miniature bomb,1xMk84)
Mius-A high subsonic, high payload(1500kg), low to medium endurance
Mius-B supersonic, high payload(1500kg), low to medium endurance;
Mius-C concept
TISU concept.
 

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