TR Propulsion Systems

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559791185379606528

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559791192577118209

Translation:
TEI has shared information about the first indigenously designed national TEI-TF6000 Turbofan Engine with 6000lbf dry thrust on its website. The TEI-TF10000 engine, which is the afterburner version of the engine and designed to support the A/B configuration, has a thrust of 10,000lbf with the afterburner and reach the powers needed for supersonic flights.... I hope they succeed and solve the problems with the existing engines as soon as possible....

100% coming for Kızılelma and other Jet powered UAVs / UCAVs. Even Ukranian deal was not thorough before the deal and they had some hesitations on mass delivering the engines upfront.

 

[Rodeo]

I hope they succeed and solve the problems with the existing engines as soon as possible....

What problems is he talking about?

 

[Radonsider]

What problems is he talking about?

Probably time related issues

 

[Baryshx]

How are the features compared to equivalent engines, is it above or below?

 

[Yasar_TR]

What problems is he talking about?

He is talking about “existing“ engines.
These must be to do with ironing out small problems on PD Series Diesel engines for the UAVs. According to the latest posts on Aksungur, PD170 engines were being used on these now. So PD155 has been upgraded. And the new Aksungur and hopefully Anka UAVs will have now PD170 engines propelling them.
There is still the finishing of the development of PD222 which will be used on TB3 to give it extra power during take off.
Among the existing engines; There is also TS1400. The final integration of this engine to the Gokbey has not happened yet. The engine is being updated and amended to fit and suit Gokbey.
There is also the “news” that a military version of TS-1400 being developed. May be he is also referring to that.

 

[Baryshx]

He is talking about “existing“ engines.
These must be to do with ironing out small problems on PD Series Diesel engines for the UAVs. According to the latest posts on Aksungur, PD170 engines were being used on these now. So PD155 has been upgraded. And the new Aksungur and hopefully Anka UAVs will have now PD170 engines propelling them.
There is still the finishing of the development of PD222 which will be used on TB3 to give it extra power during take off.
Among the existing engines; There is also TS1400. The final integration of this engine to the Gokbey has not happened yet. The engine is being updated and amended to fit and suit Gokbey.
There is also the “news” that a military version of TS-1400 being developed. May be he is also referring to that.

The TB3 business is troublesome, its engine and itself need to be made suitable for the navy.

 

[Yasar_TR]

How are the features compared to equivalent engines, is it above or below?

Some relevant and modern equivalent engines are:

Motor Sich Ukrainian : AI-222 series engines (Soviet era tech). 5552lbf thrust dry and 9262lbf thrust with A/B.

RR Turbomeca Adour : Although an old design. It has been updated and redeveloped many times to conform to modern specs. In fact the latest US Boeing Gohawk trainers use this engine.
6000lbf dry thrust and 8430lbf thrust with A/B.

Honeywell F124 non A/B and F125 with A/B engines : 6280lbf thrust and 9080lbf thrust respectively.

If we are looking to use this engine on supersonic but stealthy UCAVs, then we need to look in to an engine with high enough dry thrust to give the plane supersonic cruise capability without after burners.

 

[Baryshx]

Some relevant and modern equivalent engines are:

Motor Sich Ukrainian : AI-222 series engines (Soviet era tech). 5552lbf thrust dry and 9262lbf thrust with A/B.

RR Turbomeca Adour : Although an old design. It has been updated and redeveloped many times to conform to modern specs. In fact the latest US Boeing Gohawk trainers use this engine.
6000lbf dry thrust and 8430lbf thrust with A/B.

Honeywell F124 non A/B and F125 with A/B engines : 6280lbf thrust and 9080lbf thrust respectively.

If we are looking to use this engine on supersonic but stealthy UCAVs, then we need to look in to an engine with high enough dry thrust to give the plane supersonic cruise capability without after burners.

I asked in terms of Diameter, height, length and power given against other engines. Bypass rate, fuel consumption etc.

 

[Timur]

I asked in terms of Diameter, height, length and power given against other engines. Bypass rate, fuel consumption etc.

you see now wich are the engines compareable if you search them on google and make your comparison please update us with bypass rate fuel consumption height length.....

 

[Baryshx]

you see now wich are the engines compareable if you search them on google and make your comparison please update us with bypass rate fuel consumption height length.....

With a straight look? I don't understand the engine, there may be things in the literature that have different meanings.

 

[Combat-Master]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559791185379606528

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1559791192577118209

Translation:
TEI has shared information about the first indigenously designed national TEI-TF6000 Turbofan Engine with 6000lbf dry thrust on its website. The TEI-TF10000 engine, which is the afterburner version of the engine and designed to support the A/B configuration, has a thrust of 10,000lbf with the afterburner and reach the powers needed for supersonic flights.... I hope they succeed and solve the problems with the existing engines as soon as possible....

Having implemented the project with its resources considering Türkiye's turbofan engine needs, TEI is developing the first indigenous turbofan engine, TEI-TF6000, with 6000 lbf dry thrust. The engine, designed to support the TEI-TF10000-A/B configuration as the afterburner version, will provide 10000 lbf thrust together with the afterburner and will be able to reach the forces needed for supersonic flights.
The TEI-TF6000 Turbofan Engine and its derivatives to be developed from its core engine are available to be employed on various national platforms such as manned-unmanned warplanes, business jets, regional passenger planes, civil-military helicopters with 10-ton take-off weight, gunboats, and power plants.
With the TEI-TF6000 project, TEI aims at carrying out the design, development and manufacturing stages of the Turbofan Engine, accessory subsystems, fan module, variable fixed blade compressor, flow mixer exhaust, afterburner for the first time in Türkiye, and achieve ground breaking technology, local supplier industry companies, and experienced human resource in our country.

Technical Specifications​

• Dry thrust (SLS, ISA): 6.000 lbf
• Dimensions: 860x1100x2250mm
• By-pass Ratio (SLS, ISA): 1,08
• Specific Fuel Consumption (lbf/lbs.h): 0,70
• Configuration
  • Fan: 2 stage axial
  • Compressor: 6 stage axial
  • Turbine: 1 stage HPT - 1 stage LPT
  • Combustion Chamber: Through Flow

https://www.tei.com.tr/en/products/tei-tf6000-turbofan-engine

 

[Mustafa27]

I know there is a high bypass ratio and low but what category would 1,08 be in?

I also thought a ratio would be written in something like this 0:1, would be helpful if someone explains in terms of 0:1.

Thanks.

 

[Zafer]

I know there is a high bypass ratio and low but what category would 1,08 be in?

I also thought a ratio would be written in something like this 0:1, would be helpful if someone explains in terms of 0:1.

Thanks.

1.08:1 ratio,

Passenger plane engines have very high bypass ratio of up to 24:1.

TF6000 is near the higher end of fighter engine bypass ratios which range between 0.8:1 to 1.2:1. This means it is not geared for top speed but for a good balance between speed and milage, perhaps a little biased towards milage. But TEI can make modifications to the base engine and tune it as they wish.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I know there is a high bypass ratio and low but what category would 1,08 be in?

I also thought a ratio would be written in something like this 0:1, would be helpful if someone explains in terms of 0:1.

Thanks.

For those who would like to understand it in simpler form:
In a turbofan (bypass) engine, the bypass ratio is a comparison between the mass flow rate of air drawn into the engine through the fan disk that goes around the engine core with the mass flow rate of the air that goes through the engine core. In an engine with a bypass ration of 10:1, for every 11 units of air drawn into the engine, 10 will bypass the engine core and 1 will go through it.
In short for every 10 parts of air thrown out by the main fan 1 part of air goes through the engine burning the fuel and thrown out of the nozzle.
This is the normal type of operation one would see in a passenger planes’ turbofan engine.
But in an engine like F110 which has a by pass ratio of 0.76:1;
for every 0.76 part of air thrown out by the main fan, 1 part of air is used in the burning of fuel andthrown out of the nozzle.
So if the by pass ratio of TF6000 is 1.08 , then for every 1.08 part of air thrown out by the main fan, 1 unit of air goes through the engine’s hot parts.
This makes the TF6000 engine a little higher by pass than an engine like f110. But not a high by pass engine like the ones we would see in jet liners where around 90% of thrust is provided by the air thrown out around the engine by the big fan.
Both RR Turbomeca and Honeywell F125 have lower by pass ratios than TF6000. Higher bypass engines are quieter and more suitable to stealth operations. Technology used on engines like RR Pearl with higher by pass ratios are being used for the basis on which the tempest engine is being produced.

 

[Bmx98]

For those who would like to understand it in simpler form:
In a turbofan (bypass) engine, the bypass ratio is a comparison between the mass flow rate of air drawn into the engine through the fan disk that goes around the engine core with the mass flow rate of the air that goes through the engine core. In an engine with a bypass ration of 10:1, for every 11 units of air drawn into the engine, 10 will bypass the engine core and 1 will go through it.
In short for every 10 parts of air thrown out by the main fan 1 part of air goes through the engine burning the fuel and thrown out of the nozzle.
This is the normal type of operation one would see in a passenger planes’ turbofan engine.
But in an engine like F110 which has a by pass ratio of 0.76:1;
for every 0.76 part of air thrown out by the main fan, 1 part of air is used in the burning of fuel andthrown out of the nozzle.
So if the by pass ratio of TF6000 is 1.08 , then for every 1.08 part of air thrown out by the main fan, 1 unit of air goes through the engine’s hot parts.
This makes the TF6000 engine a little higher by pass than an engine like f110. But not a high by pass engine like the ones we would see in jet liners where around 90% of thrust is provided by the air thrown out around the engine by the big fan.
Both RR Turbomeca and Honeywell F125 have lower by pass ratios than TF6000. Higher bypass engines are quieter and more suitable to stealth operations. Technology used on engines like RR Pearl with higher by pass ratios are being used for the basis on which the tempest engine is being produced.

Yes but doesn't higher bypass ratio affect thrust negatively though? So if you want to have higher thrust from a small-diameter turbofan you will need to sacrifice bypass, which means that we should expect much lower bypass from tf-6000's afterburner version.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Yes but doesn't higher bypass ratio affect thrust negatively though? So if you want to have higher thrust from a small-diameter turbofan you will need to sacrifice bypass, which means that we should expect much lower bypass from tf-6000's afterburner version.

No! On the contrary, For a Turbofan engine;
As bypass ratio (BPR) increases the overall efficiency of the engine increase which is a primary factor that yields lower “Thrust Specific Fuel Consumption” for the turbofan engine.
Additionally, a high bypass ratio engine can produce a greater amount of thrust while consuming the same amount of fuel as a lower BPR engine.
Yes, if the fan diameter decreases the thrust will be negatively effected. But as someone had said here before, designing any jet engine is a matter of compromise.
Besides, the bypass ratio of 1.08 mentioned here might be specific to the non after burner version.
The bypass ratio of a turbofan is based largely on its operation regime. Turbojets or low bypass turbofans are excellent choices for operations above Mach 1. Larger bypass ratios are more suitable to high subsonic and transonic operations. But a BPR of 1.08 is still low. It may present to be a good compromise.

 

[Bmx98]

No! On the contrary, For a Turbofan engine;
As bypass ratio (BPR) increases the overall efficiency of the engine increase which is a primary factor that yields lower “Thrust Specific Fuel Consumption” for the turbofan engine.
Additionally, a high bypass ratio engine can produce a greater amount of thrust while consuming the same amount of fuel as a lower BPR engine.
Yes, if the fan diameter decreases the thrust will be negatively effected. But as someone had said here before, designing any jet engine is a matter of compromise.
Besides, the bypass ratio of 1.08 mentioned here might be specific to the non after burner version.
The bypass ratio of a turbofan is based largely on its operation regime. Turbojets or low bypass turbofans are excellent choices for operations above Mach 1. Larger bypass ratios are more suitable to high subsonic and transonic operations. But a BPR of 1.08 is still low. It may present to be a good compromise.

Thnx very informative, I had some concepts mixed about thrust and air intake which messed up my perception of thrust-byoass relation, but your explanation was very clear.

 

[Oublious]

 

[Oublious]

Ther are 4 engine they are working on, KTJ3200, ARAT and 1750 what we now. Anybody?

 

[Radonsider]

Ther are 4 engine they are working on, KTJ3200, ARAT and 1750 what we now. Anybody?

3700?