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LM500 suits to FACs not frigates or destroyers. LM2500,LM500 all relies on the same core* with additions but i am not an airliner guy so @Nilgiri may explain differences on how they attain a larger shaft output (all that matters on a ship) by adding new disks.
*LM2500 based on CF6
*LM500 based on CF34
The closest we've got to turbofan engine self reliance.TEI-TF6000
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Turkish continuous detonation wave engine prototype
TÜBİTAK SAGE'de bir başarılı ateşleme daha!
"Türkiye'nin Uzay Yolculuğu" başlıklı panelinde TÜBİTAK SAGE Enerjik Sistemler Grup Koordinatörü Dr. Bülent SÜMER ve ROKETSAN İleri Teknolojiler ve Sistemler Genel Müdür Yardımcısı Dr. Sartuk KARASOY konuşmacı olarak yer aldı.www.defenceturk.net
The first ignition of the engine happened yesterday.
Continuous Detonation engine architecture is a promising futuristic technology. I'm posting an article on the subject so you have an idea.
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In summary, we can say that Turkey has developed the first prototype of an engine that can reach speeds like hypersonic or mach 4.
@Cabatli_53 @Anmdt @TheInsider @what @Zafer @Nilgiri @Yasar @OPTIMUS @Fuzuli NL @Stuka @Saithan @Ryder @neosinan @Stimpy75 @T-123456 @EcderhaProf. Dr. İsmail DEMİR: "TÜBİTAK-SAGE is working in the field of hypersonic missiles."
We can now say that Tübitak SAGE has performed the ignition of the first scramjet engine prototype.
But İsmail Demir announced that they are working on the hyperosonic missile project. Before they can make a hypersonic missile, they must develop a scramjet engine. Because there is no hypersonic wind tunnel in our country. So the rest of the project should be waiting in the background for now. So the most likely possibility would be that they are working on a scramjet engine.SAGE did the first ignition of the continuous-wave detonation engine prototype a few weeks ago.
If there is a scramjet engine it has to be a prototype geared toward scientific studies, unlike the SAGE ramjet engine prototype which is an industrial product.
As you would know, you don’t need a scramjet engine to reach hypersonic speeds with a ballistic missile. Almost all SRBMs can attain hypersonic speeds during their flight. A good example is the Russian Kinzhal missile. It is supposedly a 8-10 Mach speed missile.
However a missile with scramjet engine, by design, could have propulsion during it’s atmospheric flight and theoretically achieve hypersonic speeds while at lower atmosphere. But this would create mechanical , heating and guidance problems. US is still trying to overcome some of these problems. I would love to hear our Indian members’ views on the matter regarding Brahmos 2. @Nilgiri ?
If we compare it, TEI is superior. I believe they are almost 30 years busy with the program so people who are talking bad about TEI should think twice what kind tecnology we are dealing with.
HTFE-25 program is less than 10 years old. You are thinking of Kaveri.
ther was a engine program for ther fighter and still are they working on that. Maybe it was that Kaveri, it was 5 years ago when i read about ther engine program.
Fuel Cell Systems for Submarines (Vestel Defense Industry)
ASPİLSAN had announced that it is working on hydrogen-powered PEM fuel cells and the sub-types of PEM, DMFC (Direct Methanol Fuel Cell) and DEFC (Direct Ethanol Fuel Cell).
These technologies are used especially in submarines.
You should not forget Avio Aero(formerly Fiat) and GKN Aerospace Engines (formerly Volvo Aero). Avio Aero has for long been a leading manufacturer of gas turbine gear boxes whereas Volvo in casing and liners. Also apart from IHI, JAEC member companies, esepcially MHI is heavily involved in gas turbines, including gas turbines for aero engines and have reputable technology. Honorable mention goes for ITP of Spain.Dr Aksit is definItely a brain and asset this country has produced that needs to be respected. But he does like to blow his own trumpet a bit too much at times, and whilst doing that exaggerates to a certain degree. There are engine producers like GE, P&W, RR and Safran that are in a league of their own. There is also CFM ( a conglomerate of GE and Safran) that specialises in passenger plane engine manufacturing.
Another top player is MTU Aeroengines of Germany (wholly owned by Kohlberg Kravis Robert’s) that produces complete engines as well as parts for P&W, GE and CFM. MTU, produces engines like EJ200, F110, F414, LM500 etc. as well as being a growth partner of engines like PW4000 engine, that power Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A300.
In the East, IHI of Japan works very similar to TEI. But is far ahead of us as they can produce complete turbofan engines like XF5 and XF9 engines.
These make 7 top manufacturers of western built jet engines. We are not there yet. When our TF6000 starts to fly, and our indigenous MMU engine materialises, then we may think about taking 8th position at best.
You'r not doing any justice to what MTU means in the industry. They have been the industry leaders in devloping and manufacturing Blisks, a lot of breakthroughs originating from their labs and factories. Moreover, you shouldn't confuse yourself between if a country/company is not trying or cannot try. Lots of European nations, notably Germany, Italy and Sweden, are a core part of integral global gas turbine industry eco system.I am not gonna argue with Big 4 in Aero engine business but Also MTU does not have any modern aero engine design they fully own its IPs. They are huge subcontractor but Not an Engine designer.
CFM is also joint venture among big 4 in order to increase their profit rather than compete with each others in its field. It wont enter another field of aero engine business unless its parent companies decides. So Neither of these 2 companies is or will be competing for aero engine business in general sense.
Yes, IHI is ahead of TEI and it is that simple. But that doesn't mean TEI isn't fighting for the 5th position.
There are big 3;
GE, P&W, RR
Then comes French Safran and Japanese IHI
Rest it similar. TEI slowly climbs up the ladder with its own designs. There is no way to catch the top 3 unless you jump the train of a paradigm-changing technology like composite turbine blades early on. The US companies are moving to adaptive cycle engines, and RR is tasked to develop the engine of Tempest. If we can successfully develop the engine of TFX we can consider ourselves more or less at the level of Safran and IHI.
Yeah, that's just delusional. IHI has already showcased their abilities of developing and manufacturing an extremely efficient turbofan with 2050K class TIT, aka XF-9. Where's Türkiye? Oh right, 1700K. The Japanese were important industry suppliers for decades, especially in the field of gas turbine shafts. They have also been RSPs of high-profile gas turbine programs. They are part of the leading edge of material science and engineering, pioneering composites and CMC. Not to forget they've partnered with UK in the past to bid for engine supplies for B737, although they ultimately lost out to CFM. Türkiye is not in any way comparable to any of the countries mentioned above. Don't even think of Safran.The best TEI can do is to match Safran. Big 3 is untouchable.
This situation is just for now.You should not forget Avio Aero(formerly Fiat) and GKN Aerospace Engines (formerly Volvo Aero). Avio Aero has for long been a leading manufacturer of gas turbine gear boxes whereas Volvo in casing and liners. Also apart from IHI, JAEC member companies, esepcially MHI is heavily involved in gas turbines, including gas turbines for aero engines and have reputable technology. Honorable mention goes for ITP of Spain.
You'r not doing any justice to what MTU means in the industry. They have been the industry leaders in devloping and manufacturing Blisks, a lot of breakthroughs originating from their labs and factories. Moreover, you shouldn't confuse yourself between if a country/company is not trying or cannot try. Lots of European nations, notably Germany, Italy and Sweden, are a core part of integral global gas turbine industry eco system.
Yeah, that's just delusional. IHI has already showcased their abilities of developing and manufacturing an extremely efficient turbofan with 2050K class TIT, aka XF-9. Where's Turkey? Oh right, 1700K. The Japanese were important industry suppliers for decades, especially in the field of gas turbine shafts. They have also been RSPs of high-profile gas turbine programs. They are part of the leading edge of material science and engineering, pioneering composites and CMC. Not to forget they've partnered with UK in the past to bid for engine supplies for B737, although they ultimately lost out to CFM. Turkey is not in any way comparable to any of the countries mentioned above. Don't even think of Safran.
Turkey is showing very respectable progress in the fields of gas turbine but don't get ahead of yourself. No one's standing still.
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And will continue to be. Like I've said, no one stands still.This situation is just for now.
For me the most important thing for us is to become independent from other countries for our aerial platforms. They(our "allies") shouldn't have the power to pull the plug on our projects by not delivering engines and making us their bitch. I don't give rats ass about what our ranking is among the top etc. For us to have an independent foreign policy we have to be self sufficient.And will continue to be. Like I've said, no one stands still.
Yeah but advancing technology gets harder as you go higher. This means that those who were left in the dust once can catch up easier as time passes. The technologies that took many decades to acquire becomes easier to acquire. Newcomers progress with strides rather than with baby steps. Türkiye jumped to single crystal from zero. Coatings, ceramics, composites, additive manufacturing are all being worked on. Design tools are better than ever. Those who are already ahead are not guarantied their positions. The same condition that made them get ahead applies to others. Same or similar drives and urges to explore and find ways to make better things.And will continue to be. Like I've said, no one stands still.
Exactly. That's what's important; if Türkiye is able to source its needs without outside interruption. Though, not to mention my post was made rather for the sake of correcting outright wrong information.For me the most important thing for us is to become independent from other countries for our aerial platforms. They(our "allies") shouldn't have the power to pull the plug on our projects by not delivering engines and making us their bitch. For us to have an independent foreign policy we have to be self sufficient. I don't give rats ass about what our ranking is among the top etc.
Civilian sector is a whole different game. We are already a significant part of the ecosystem. We make billions of dollars from our contracts for the most used engines in the world. To get more workload or more added value, we'd have to cooperate more. And invest more on material science and on developing more advanced manufacturing techniques.
And the same condition of diminishing returns that applies to the industry leaders apply to those who play the catch up. As you get closer to the leading edge, your progress automatically slows down. To overcome that, you'll need even more investment and commitment than the industry leaders. Considering the industrial size and capacity, as well as the overall economic sizes of said leaders, it's a hard call to say that any of those who try to play the catch up in the industry could achieve such. In a way, it's an invisible buffer.Yeah but advancing technology gets harder as you go higher. This means that those who were left in the dust once can catch up easier as time passes. The technologies that took many decades to acquire becomes easier to acquire. Newcomers progress with strides rather than with baby steps. Türkiye jumped to single crystal from zero. Coatings, ceramics, composites, additive manufacturing are all being worked on. Design tools are better than ever. Those who are already ahead are not guarantied their positions. The same condition that made them get ahead applies to others. Same or similar drives and urges to explore and find ways to make better things.