TR Propulsion Systems

[Cabatli_TR]

Cabatlı, where to access these?

Btw do you think that MMU engine can be ready for 2026 first ignition?

I think it can but wanna hear your perspective

Obviously, the companies officially came together and the contractors were officially determined, the assignments were made and they started to work on the design of the TFX engine. The structure of fans and compressors has been finalized and the design work continues. If RR gets involved in the project, they will be just a part of this giant consortium. The prototype production of the Tf6000/1000, which was developed for the engineering verification of 35000lb turbofan engine, has also started and will be ignited within 1 year. Since it is known that tfX turbofan engine will be the enlarged scale of the Tf6000/10000, the distance covered in the Tf6000/10000 will probably mean the progress of the TFX engine as well. So I am hopeful for 2026/27 for first ignition of 35000lb turbofan.

 

[TheInsider]

TF-6000 is moving to prototype production and first ignition. The design team should be moving to the MMU engine project. As mentioned MMU engine will mostly be a scaled-up version of the TF-6000 so there is a good chance that the first ignition of the MMU engine can happen in 2026.

 

[TheInsider]

KTJ-1750 consumes roughly 190-200kg of fuel in an hour at full thrust. We can roughly deduce the range of Çakır from this.

 

[Trakya_forever]

It is aimed to start ground tests with KTJ3700 before the end of 2022 and use the KTJ3700 in the fist firing test of Kara-Atmaca in 2023

SAHA Daily

I wonder we will use KTJ 3700 for SOM variants or a new type of ALCM or not.

 

[Trakya_forever]

KTJ-1750 consumes roughly 190-200kg of fuel in an hour at full thrust. We can roughly deduce the range of Çakır from this.

When we calculate 0,8 Mach average speed, It may be over 300 kms if the engine works about 20 minutes (with 60-70kg fuel) when launched from Akıncı/Aksungur.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Saha Daily
Thanks to Ibrahim Sünnetçi

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Saha Daily

 

[Bogeyman]

Why does Baykar Makine buy Sungur manpads from Roketsan?
There was a signing ceremony today.

BMC Power will sign a diesel engine agreement for SİDA with Sefine shipyard.

 

[Yasar_TR]

TEI has been closely working with GE on Blisk fan technology for years. The F110GE129EFE engine AKA F110GE132 is an engine that TEI is responsible for maintaining and servicing as well as producing parts for it.
So it is only logical that the Blisk (Bladed Disc) technology is adapted for our TF6000 engine.
GE has been working on Blisk fan since the beginning of 2000s.
This technology improves engine efficiency immensely. Keeping internal temperatures at check and more manageable levels it gives immense power increases to the engine output.
By enlarging the engine diameter to F110 levels (120cm) and adding a few more fan and compressor stages, hence elongating the engine the power levels needed for the MMU will be reached.
From that perspective the F6000 is a vitally important engine to produce.
As TF6000 tests are being done, it is most likely that the indigenous MMU engine will be developed along side it, coming about a year or so from behind, manufactured with experience and expertise attained from TF6000.

 

[Afif]

When we calculate 0,8 Mach average speed, It may be over 300 kms if the engine works about 20 minutes (with 60-70kg fuel) when launched from Akıncı/Aksungur.

But how do we know how much fuel tank can hold ?

 

[TheInsider]

But how do we know how much fuel tank can hold ?

We don't know right now and we probably never will. We can only guess. Çakır weighs 275kg and carries a 70kg warhead. The engine can run for 15+ minutes with 50kg of fuel. This means the missile can travel more than 250km(1000km/h) if the missile is loaded with 50kg of fuel.

 

[Hexciter]

TEI GM AKŞİT (About TF6000 engine):
We continue to work on adding an afterburner to the exhaust part. I hope it will be TF10000
Can be used in MMU, KIZILELMA, HÜRJET
Our National Fast Attack Boat program continues. In this state, 4 of them will give him strength.
It can be used as a natural gas compressor in natural gas lines.
A dynamo can be added to the back and the front fan part can be removed and the power produced by the turbine can be transferred to the dynamo and used in electricity generation. A motor big enough to power about 4,000 homes.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1585204124693725184

 

[Afif]

We don't know right now and we probably never will. We can only guess. Çakır weighs 275kg and carries a 70kg warhead. The engine can run for 15+ minutes with 50kg of fuel. This means the missile can travel more than 250km(1000km/h) if the missile is loaded with 50kg of fuel.

Your estimation probably more or less correct! I think cakır's range will increas step by step like SOM. If I remember correctly it was first announced to be 100 nm and now with som j it's 150nm.

First They like to announce a very conservative estimation. Then more practical range is revealed later. And I think it is same with atmaca kara. It definitely has more range than 280km.

 

[TheInsider]

Atmaca Kara has over 500km range and I know it for sure. It is announced as 280km because Roketsan wants to sell the export version to other countries.
Çakır is probably announced conservatively as a 150 km missile due to the lack of fuel consumption data for KTJ-1750. At that point, KTJ-1750 was still in the early development phase.

 

[Hexciter]

Türkiye has been known for the publishing the conservative performance numbers which were actually requested numbers. We know that the achieved numbers can be quite different

 

[Combat-Master]

 

[Boz]

Must watch.

 

[Radonsider]

TEI has been closely working with GE on Blisk fan technology for years. The F110GE129EFE engine AKA F110GE132 is an engine that TEI is responsible for maintaining and servicing as well as producing parts for it.
So it is only logical that the Blisk (Bladed Disc) technology is adapted for our TF6000 engine.
GE has been working on Blisk fan since the beginning of 2000s.
This technology improves engine efficiency immensely. Keeping internal temperatures at check and more manageable levels it gives immense power increases to the engine output.
By enlarging the engine diameter to F110 levels (120cm) and adding a few more fan and compressor stages, hence elongating the engine the power levels needed for the MMU will be reached.
From that perspective the F6000 is a vitally important engine to produce.
As TF6000 tests are being done, it is most likely that the indigenous MMU engine will be developed along side it, coming about a year or so from behind, manufactured with experience and expertise attained from TF6000.

View attachment 49460
View attachment 49461

i honestly expect MMU engine to be similar to F110-GE-132, as TEI already has experience with it.

This way development time would be lower compared to designing an engine from scracth

 

[Yasar_TR]

Must watch.

Anyone who knows about the intricacies of turbine engines, and having watched this interview, can easily say that making an engine that will propel TFX is not going to be a quick job.
If we want squadrons of planes flying before the end of the decade, we need ready made engines and/or help build our own through assistance received from companies like RR.
TF6000, without afterburner will have it’s first engine ignition in early 2023. Then will come the afterburner version.
TS1400 first ignition was end of 2018. It will have taken 5 years from that date before it is in a platform flying it. Then serial production is a different stage altogether.
So 2028 is the time for the TF6000 to be ready on a plane, if we go by the same logic. Hopefully they will make things a bit faster. But there are tests and manufacturing processes you can not bypass. Then there is the production process of TFX engine. Even if it is programmed to go along side by side the TF6000 program and coming a bit behind it; It is not going to be ready in time for serial production of TFX before the early 2030s.
There is no other alternative but ask for outside help. RR/Kale-TAEC with TAI/TEI collaboration needs to be started sooner than later if we really want TFX to be ready within this decade.

 

[Boz]

Anyone who knows about the intricacies of turbine engines, and having watched this interview, can easily say that making an engine that will propel TFX is not going to be a quick job.
If we want squadrons of planes flying before the end of the decade, we need ready made engines and/or help build our own through assistance received from companies like RR.
TF6000, without afterburner will have it’s first engine ignition in early 2023. Then will come the afterburner version.
TS1400 first ignition was end of 2018. It will have taken 5 years from that date before it is in a platform flying it. Then serial production is a different stage altogether.
So 2028 is the time for the TF6000 to be ready on a plane, if we go by the same logic. Hopefully they will make things a bit faster. But there are tests and manufacturing processes you can not bypass. Then there is the production process of TFX engine. Even if it is programmed to go along side by side the TF6000 program and coming a bit behind it; It is not going to be ready in time for serial production of TFX before the early 2030s.
There is no other alternative but ask for outside help. RR/Kale-TAEC with TAI/TEI collaboration needs to be started sooner than later if we really want TFX to be ready within this decade.

Lately the indication seems clearly aimed at RR/Kale.