Japan offers to export warships to Indonesia

[Isa Khan]

The Japanese government is looking at potentially exporting destroyers and other warships to Indonesia, with negotiations already underway.

If this pushes through, it would become Japan’s largest defense equipment export, and help realize its initiatives to keep the Indo-Pacific region free and open.

This would also help increase Indonesia’s naval capabilities as it faces China’s expansion into the South China Sea, and into Indonesian Exclusive Economic Zone in the Natuna Islands.

The export of warships to Indonesia also sends a message to China of Japan’s intentions to bring stability in the region by improving the defense capabilities of China’s smaller neighbours.

According to reports, Japan offered the 30FFM frigate from Mitsubishi Shipbuilding, with four to be constructed in Japan, and another four to be constructed in Indonesia through technology transfers. This is expected to be worth around JY300 billion (US$2.9 billion).

Currently Japan’s defense equipment transfer policies are based on principles, which may affect the export of warships due to their capabilities to attack other ships. But there are ways to still allow this, including joint warship development with foreign countries like Indonesia.

Indonesia is currently looking at expanding the capabilities of its navy, with the Defense Ministry looking at potential acquisition of submarines and corvettes from France, destroyers from Denmark, and frigates from the Netherlands.

Japan offers to export warships to Indonesia

The 30DX frigate from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. The Japanese government is looking at potentially exporting destroyers and other warshi...

www.asiapacificdefensejournal.com

 

[Indos]

I dont think the offer will be accepted, too expensive for Indonesian pocket. I still see the offer from Denmark is much appealing with much less cost and all of the frigates will be built in Indonesia.

 

[Saithan]

Odense-firma kæmper om milliardordre på krigsskibe

Australien skal købe krigsskibe for 150 milliarder kroner. Odense-firma og søværnet kæmper for at få ordren.

fyens.dk

Danish interest in offering to Australia. Are these the same type of frigates ?

Odense Maritime Technology (OMT) - Iver Huidtfeldt-Class

it's says in the article that the frigates are build up in modules, which makes changes flexible and also (in fact) costs around half as much as the frigates in same size/class.

Which is what makes politicians pay attention to what Denmark has to offer.

Iver Huitfeldt-class frigate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Found the article

Indonesia Looking at Iver Huitfeldt-class Frigate to Boost TNI-AL's Blue Water Force - Naval News

The Indonesian Government appears to be moving forward with a plan to procure two large displacement frigates for the Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL). The frigates would be based on the Danish Iver Huitfeldt-class and built at local shipyard PT PAL.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Saithan]

Indonesia signs preamble contract for first Iver Huitfeldt-variant frigate​

by Ridzwan Rahmat

Denmark’s first-of-class Iver Huitfeldt frigate. Indonesia has signed a preamble contract, with the intention to eventually procure a variant of the ship for its requirements. (Guy Toremans)
The Indonesian Ministry of Defence (MOD) has signed a preamble contract that paves the way for the country to procure its first-ever frigate from Denmark.

The contract was signed on 30 April in the presence of representatives from the MOD, state-owned shipbuilder PT PAL, and PT Sinar Kokoh Persada, the Indonesian agent for Danish company Odense Maritime Technology (OMT).

Among articles covered in the preamble contract include workshare arrangements that will be taken once an actual contract for the first vessel materialises, a defence industry source close to the matter has confirmed with Janes while providing documentary evidence of the occasion.

As first reported by Janes in March 2019, Indonesia has grown increasingly keen on a variant of the Iver Huitfeldt -class frigate, three of which are in service with the Royal Danish Navy, for the country’s own two-ship surface combatant requirement.

A piece of unclassified correspondence between the country’s then-defence minister, Ryamizard Ryacudu, and the cabinet secretary of President Joko Widodo provided to Janes that month made the case for the Iver Huitfeldt class as one that features “reliable combat capabilities, and can operate in the extremities of Indonesia’s exclusive economic zone”.

The Iver Huitfeldt class displaces 6,600 tonnes at full load, and is powered by four MTU 20V 8000 M70 diesel engines in a combined diesel and diesel (CODAD) configuration, giving it a top speed of about 28 kt.

https://www.janes.com/defence-equip...act-for-first-iver-huitfeldt-variant-frigate/
_________________________________

It looks like a really nasty.

 

[Indos]

I also see for submarine Indonesia will still choose Korean Chang Bogo, the finance to build additional submarine building facility in PT PAL has already been approved by parliament and will be disbursed in 2021 inshaAllah. Finance Ministry official has once again confirm about the disbursement of PMN (financial injection) in 2021 for state owned companies that includes PT PAL (JakartaPost, last Friday).

During this covid thing, the acquisition will be more intended to help the economy and the industry so any acquisition that has minimal contribution to local industry will likely be rejected. This is why the previous Osprey helicopter potential order from Army prompted Jokowi to have meeting with several ministers that include defense minister as well and he criticizes the potential order of that helicopter bluntly and later defense ministry official deny there is such order.

 

[Anmdt]

I also see for submarine Indonesia will still choose Korean Chang Bogo, the finance to build additional submarine building facility in PT PAL has already been approved by parliament and will be disbursed in 2021 inshaAllah. Finance Ministry official has once again confirm about the disbursement of PMN (financial injection) in 2021 for state owned companies that includes PT PAL (JakartaPost, last Friday).

During this covid thing, the acquisition will be more intended to help the economy and the industry so any acquisition that has minimal contribution to local industry will likely be rejected. This is why the previous Osprey helicopter potential order from Army prompted Jokowi to have meeting with several ministers that include defense minister as well and he criticizes the potential order of that helicopter bluntly and later defense ministry official deny there is such order.

Maybe Indonesia should launch a proper tender and publish an RfP. Will be easier to choose instead of going on 1 to 1 meetings with different proposal each time.

 

[Indos]

Maybe Indonesia should launch a proper tender and publish an RfP. Will be easier to choose instead of going on 1 to 1 meetings with different proposal each time.

I dont know with frigates acquisition but for OPV there is already tender going on but only eligible for local shipbuilding.

 

[Isa Khan]

I dont think the offer will be accepted, too expensive for Indonesian pocket. I still see the offer from Denmark is much appealing with much less cost and all of the frigates will be built in Indonesia.

$362 million per ship is expensive? How much is Danish one?

 

[Nilgiri]

A connected thread on same topic:

Japan plans first export of destroyers

3:02 pm, November 04, 2020 By Takeyuki Hitokoto / Yomiuri Shimbun CorrespondentJAKARTA — Japan plans to export Maritime Self-Defense Force destroyers to Indonesia, The Yomiuri Shimbun has learned from government-related sources in both countries. If realized, it would be the first time for...

defencehub.live

 

[Madokafc]

This is completely different program with Danish itver class. I have been informed from one of my relation in the MoD, this is crash program to alleviate the Navy surface warships fleets burden and the expansion needed to fulfill the Navy Koarmada III being formed recently. Danish itver class is slanted to replace the Van Speijk class, in which had been delayed as the Navy need more assets to be able to do their basic administration fulfillments.

 

[Saithan]

$362 million per ship is expensive? How much is Danish one?

According to the article I posted around 50% of the price normally paid for vessels of that tonnage + specs.

This is completely different program with Danish itver class. I have been informed from one of my relation in the MoD, this is crash program to alleviate the Navy surface warships fleets burden and the expansion needed to fulfill the Navy Koarmada III being formed recently. Danish itver class is slanted to replace the Van Speijk class, in which had been delayed as the Navy need more assets to be able to do their basic administration fulfillments.

But it's a pretty well armed Frigate.

 

[Anmdt]

This is completely different program with Danish itver class. I have been informed from one of my relation in the MoD, this is crash program to alleviate the Navy surface warships fleets burden and the expansion needed to fulfill the Navy Koarmada III being formed recently. Danish itver class is slanted to replace the Van Speijk class, in which had been delayed as the Navy need more assets to be able to do their basic administration fulfillments.

Both frigates has overlapping dimensions, roles and sensors (IH with Hensoldt Fixed panel aesa) . Probably both will be built in PT PAL at the same time according the schedule, how are they going to handle two different ToT, different designs from two different providers with separation in their discipline and ecole.
I wish patience to those managers.

 

[Madokafc]

Both frigates has overlapping dimensions, roles and sensors (IH with Hensoldt Fixed panel aesa) . Probably both will be built in PT PAL at the same time according the schedule, how are they going to handle two different ToT, different designs from two different providers with separation in their discipline and ecole.
I wish patience to those managers.

The offer is First batch of four the Japanese Frigates will be built in Japan as a whole, after that they will be built in Indonesia. At the same time the PT PAL will build Itver class and i got the wind they are waiting team from Babcock to inspect the Shipyard but they are on the delay cause of the Covid19 issue (in which i am saluted the Japanese as they are willing to brave the risk more)

 

[Indos]

$362 million per ship is expensive? How much is Danish one?

OK it looks quite competitive enough, same price with the offer for Iver (under 2 ship order proposal).

Despite having relatively similar price and tonnage, I think Iver proposal still has some advantage since the whole ships will be built in PT PAL, so more money will still be circulated in the country and it will also help PT PAL industrial and financial growth. More over, Indonesia is just experiencing recession and wanting to recover as soon as possible. Danish Oden is also satisfied with only 2 frigates order, instead of big order like 8 frigates proposed by Japanese, something which is more appealing under Today circumtances.

I also dont think under current government there will be such huge 8 frigates order, even under normal economic situation. At maximum, I only can see the government to order 4 frigates if the offer is interesting enough. It is because there are still 2 OPV, 3 submarines, additional KCR 60 missile boats, and several CN 235 MPA/ASW planes under the pipe line until 2024, not to mention modernization program on several ships (including some corvettes) and possible retrofit of remaining Van Speijk frigates.

 

[Saithan]

OK it looks quite competitive enough, same price with the offer for Iver (under 2 ship order proposal).

Despite having relatively similar price and tonnage, I think Iver proposal still has some advantage since the whole ships will be built in PT PAL, so more money will still be circulated in the country and it will also help PT PAL industrial and financial growth. More over, Indonesia is just experiencing recession and wanting to recover as soon as possible. Danish Oden is also satisfied with only 2 frigates order, instead of big order like 8 frigates proposed by Japanese, something which is more appealing under Today circumtances.

I also dont think under current government there will be such huge 8 frigates order, even under normal economic situation. At maximum, I only can see the government to order 4 frigates if the offer is interesting enough. It is because there are still 2 OPV, 3 submarines, additional KCR 60 missile boats, and several CN 235 MPA/ASW planes under the pipe line until 2024, not to mention modernization program on several ships (including some corvettes) and possible retrofit of remaining Van Speijk frigates.

Could Atamaca be fitted inside those VLS ? Having options on missiles could be a nice flexibility.

 

[Gary]

Could Atamaca be fitted inside those VLS ? Having options on missiles could be a nice flexibility.

did they have a plan for a VLS launched ATMACA already.??

 

[Saithan]

did they have a plan for a VLS launched ATMACA already.??

No, I was just doing some wishful thinking

 

[Indos]

Could Atamaca be fitted inside those VLS ? Having options on missiles could be a nice flexibility.

I dont know Oden proposal, but Turkish company is the one appointed to assess Indonesian ships modernization program.

Turkish defence companies survey Indonesian warships for possible upgrade opportunities

A delegation of Turkish defence industry officials has arrived in Indonesia to survey nine Indonesian Navy (Tentara Nasional Indonesia – Angkatan Laut: TNI-AL) warships, and assess the suitability of each of the platforms for weapon upgrades.

www.janes.com

 

[Isa Khan]

Both frigates deal look lucrative for BN's own frigate program.

No, I was just doing some wishful thinking

Is there any chance that this missile will have dual mode with anti-ship and land attack capability?

@Cabatli_53

 

[Anmdt]

did they have a plan for a VLS launched ATMACA already.??

They got a pineapple, they got a pen, huh , pineapplepen.