TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

[Anmdt]

A massive AESA radar in the nose cone and possibliy antennas distributed throughout the helicopter, like MMU. Powerful EW, CM, long-range intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and also BLOS loitering attack systems to be developed specifically for the chopper. You have shone such a light in my head that even as I imagine it, a smile forms on my face.

If we take the average human height as a reference, the ATAK-2 will be the largest rotary wing attack platform developed by western aviation. If my eyes are not deceiving me, it is even more than 1 meter taller than the AH-64. A full flying armor is coming. Therefore, it is hard not to be excited about the systems this helicopter will carry and the new approaches it will bring to the battlefield.

Not sure if the land forces variant will get the EW suite (or an extensive one) but naval forces variant will get an extensive EW suite including built in ESM and V/U HF jammer.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

It isn't right approach to look at a low resolution image and downgrade years of work in two sentences. Military products aren't considered and evaluated like models in beauty contests by Armed Forces. The design processes of these machines are shaped according to the demands of Turkish armed force. End user lists the requirements and shares their experience. Most cockpits in many programs are even designed with wishes of our soldiers. If a design change had to be made, there was a technical reason for it or there was an additional need coming from force. It should be known that if another design will emerge during serial production phase, this will also be due to need that will arise as a result of an evaluation/test process.

I'm assuming that some of you won't claim that Turkiye's largest aerospace deaign/engineering company couldn't think what members who have no experience in these matters on Twitter/Forums think. It should be known that noone should go so far as to claim that effect of the gun smoke on Flir is unknown by Tusaş but discussed/revealed by twitter guys. In this regard, I recommend that you should stay at certain levels in your comments and maintain your modesty instead of pushing the criticizim limits with conspiracy theories for strategic projects.

When T129 first appeared, some "smarty" said many things as well. FLIR is too bulky, obscures gunner's vision, poor guy's obsolete solution, or shooting accuracy is reduced due to the location of gatling gun, balance this or that...etc but Atak solution that was developed in line with our Army's requirements by Atak team was accepted and its mass production is still continuing and it is sold multiple countries abroad as well.

When Milgem introduced, someone were making a fuss as if ship had a balance problem. If i wrote what some people at the beginning of some programs was talking in this field, it would probably be a novel today and some of you would be shocked as well but nowadays no one mention what they claimed at past so everyone should pay attention to the comments they write.

The world is unfortunately full of Karens who beleive they know better from the hard-working engineers at our defence companies.

 

[Agha Sher]

Wouldn't an AESA radar on a helicopter be overkill and unnecessarily expensive?

 

[uçuyorum]

Wouldn't an AESA radar on a helicopter be overkill and unnecessarily expensive?

Maybe as an alternative to Meteksan Mildar / Longbow Radar?

 

[dBSPL]

Wouldn't an AESA radar on a helicopter be overkill and unnecessarily expensive?

Navy helicopters are already in the process of transitioning to the next generation AESA radars. Up to SAR variants, the AW101 naval versions development programs are one of the platforms where this is clearly visible. But up to US' unmanned helicopters studies, There is wide range of oppotunities thanks to energy effiency.

AESA tech allowing the radar to perform multiple tasks simultaneously, for example carrying out maritime surveillance while at the same time monitoring weather along an aircraft's flight path. So they offer air-to-air and air-to-ground capabilities with a variety of advanced modes including from small target detection capabilities up to counter measure against incoming threats.

Next-generation AESA radars are indeed technologically advanced, but they may not be as additional huge cost as one might think due to their advantages in terms of weight/energy requirements and ease of scalability.

 

[Sanders]

If memory serves, this was the mock up of an unmanned battery powered t-629 helicopter project that did not go any further than what you see in this picture.
View attachment 56438

There were 2 variants ; an unmanned electric variant as per picture above. And a conventional variant as per picture below.

View attachment 56439

Yeah, you are right.
It seems Radonsider's picture really belongs to Atak 2 though it is very different than what we saw in 3D and mock-ups. We have to wait to understand what TAI really aims for in that design.

 

[Cypro]

"Rushed for election" doesn't make sense as this design was decided upon for around a year ago? We even had photos from the design phase and later schematics...

May be that design was not "buildable" at the moment, and they had to do what they can to meet the deadline pushed by someone.. just a theory..

 

[CAN_TR]

The first design of ATAK-II changed a long time ago to this...

 

[Sanders]

The first design of ATAK-II changed a long time ago to this...

View attachment 56455 View attachment 56456
View attachment 56457

Still, the nose section doesn't resemble this.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1648573832809050113

 

[Afif]

Still, the nose section doesn't resemble this.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1648573832809050113

No, but i suspect this nose shape is better for stealth.

 

[Sanders]

No, but i suspect this nose shape is better for stealth.

Just because you changed the EO and machine gun placement from this:

to this:

the helicopter won't be more stealthy.

 

[Afif]

Just because you changed the EO and machine gun placement from this:
View attachment 56461
to this:
View attachment 56462

the helicopter won't be more stealthy.

It would definitely reduce the RCS from the frontal angle, at least to some extent.

 

[MADDOG]

ATAK-2

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1649447187598680065

 

[MADDOG]

There doesn't seem to be any detailed cuts
It just looks like a rough metal block.

I mean I like ugly designs but this doesn't looks like a design at all.

But again I wait for the better picture and final product to make my judgement.

Nope, you're wrong. Wait for better images.

 

[CAN_TR]

Gentlemen this is the first prototype... if TSK doesn't like the FLIR/Gun placement they they will make changes.

 

[TheInsider]

Gökbey conducted its first flight with 2xTS-1400.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Gökbey conducted its first flight with 2xTS-1400.

Any video?

 

[Merzifonlu]

FLIR looks like it was hastily screwed into the nose of T-929. Is this weird, right?

 

[Sanders]

It would definitely reduce the RCS from the frontal angle, at least to some extent.

Maybe, but it doesn't have to as it is a very classical design since the beginning.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

The FLIR's placement limits the gun's angle of fire too much when the helicopter is in motion. Arda Mevlütoğlu also complains about this, but I think it is wrong to make this part of the comments without a clear and detailed image.

None of the "problems" mentioned here are actually a problem yet. I've been trying to explain this since beginning. Some people are talking as if they are the experts of those matters with datas they have little to none and abuses the years of efforts to seem "smart" to their followers. The problem is this. We are talking about a product whose engineering processes are still continue and which has reached prototype stage and its maturation process will maybe continue 2/3 years more but webpage you mentioned talks about experiences of pilots on flying and matured products and giving feedbacks. It is the right move to live all these experiences for Atak-2 as well and to start a new engineering process with feedbacks if there really is a "problem". On the aforementioned site, no one shares their "experiences" with a product that is unborn but has just a blurry photo with an unclear angle of shot.

The second issue is that "FLiR will blocl the angle of the 30mm gun". This issue consists entirely of empty analysis as well. Neither degrees they give nor comments they make are of no value from techical aspect. In order to make such an angular technical analysis, first of all the horizontal distance between 30mm gun's attachment point and FLIR should be known from shared image and vertical distance between bottom end of FLIR and 30mm gun's barrel parallel to the ground should be measured So does this photo provide us with this information? Of course NOT! No one can do such trigononetric calculations by referencing mentioned image but I can show you a concept of Atak2 introducing a better view of distance between FLIR and Gun (take the line of connection of Flir to fuselage as horizontal reference to find horizontal line the barrel should stay in normal conditions) in a clearer way from a better angle (even if we don't know whether this is the final concept as well) and this will actually provide better understanding about angle of gun's vertical elevation to compete with their counterparts.