Is there any news about that? It looks like a leak.No, it doesn't belong to T-629
If you look at the design details and lines, you will see that it is matching with T-629, not Attack II.
Is there any news about that? It looks like a leak.No, it doesn't belong to T-629
Is there any news about that? It looks like a leak.
If you look at the design details and lines, you will see that it is matching with T-629, not Attack II.
I understand, but I didn't see any source about that. If there is, ı would really appreciate it.Those are literally from the Atak-2 production line
Diyanet's video from TUSAŞ visitI understand, but I didn't see any source about that. If there is, ı would really appreciate it.
As you said military products aren't considered and evaluated like models in beauty contests, so it shouldn't bother you guys if somebody think it's ugly. Beauty is a personal taste and it's relative.It isn't right approach to look at a low resolution image and downgrade years of work in two sentences. Military products aren't considered and evaluated like models in beauty contests. The design processes of these machines are shaped according to the demands of Turkish armed force. End user lists the requirements and shares their experience. Most cockpits in many programs are even designed with wishes of our soldiers. If a design change had to be made, there was a technical reason for it or there was an additional need coming from force. It should be known that if another design will emerge during serial production phase, this will also be due to need that will arise as a result of an evaluation/test process.
I'm assuming that some of you don't dare to claim that Turkiye's largest aerospace deaign/engineering company can't think what members who have no experience in these matters on Twitter/forums think. It should be known that noone should go so far as to claim that effect of the gun smoke on Flir is unknown by Tusaş but discussed only by twitter guys. In this regard, I recommend that you should stay at certain levels in your comments and maintain your modesty instead of pushing the criticizing limits with conspiracy theories for strategic projects.
When T129 first appeared, some "smarty" said many things as well. FLIR is too bulky, obscures gunner's vision or the shooting accuracy is reduced due to the location of gatling gun, balance this or that...etc but Atak solution that was developed in line with our Army's requirements by Atak team was accepted and its mass production is still continuing and it is sold multiple countries abroad as well.
When Milgem showed up, someone were making a fuss as if ship had a balance problem. If i wrote what some "knowledgeble" people at the beginning of some programs was talking about in this field, it would probably be a novel today and some of you would be shocked as well but nowadays no one mention what they claimed at past so everyone should pay attention to the comments they write.
Of course. But we are just arguing with the data we have so far which is the point of forums.It isn't right approach to look at a low resolution image and downgrade years of work in two sentences. Military products aren't considered and evaluated like models in beauty contests by Armed Forces. The design processes of these machines are shaped according to the demands of Turkish armed force. End user lists the requirements and shares their experience. Most cockpits in many programs are even designed with wishes of our soldiers. If a design change had to be made, there was a technical reason for it or there was an additional need coming from force. It should be known that if another design will emerge during serial production phase, this will also be due to need that will arise as a result of an evaluation/test process.
I'm assuming that some of you won't claim that Turkiye's largest aerospace deaign/engineering company couldn't think what members who have no experience in these matters on Twitter/Forums think. It should be known that noone should go so far as to claim that effect of the gun smoke on Flir is unknown by Tusaş but discussed/revealed by twitter guys. In this regard, I recommend that you should stay at certain levels in your comments and maintain your modesty instead of pushing the criticizim limits with conspiracy theories for strategic projects.
When T129 first appeared, some "smarty" said many things as well. FLIR is too bulky, obscures gunner's vision, poor guy's obsolete solution, or shooting accuracy is reduced due to the location of gatling gun, balance this or that...etc but Atak solution that was developed in line with our Army's requirements by Atak team was accepted and its mass production is still continuing and it is sold multiple countries abroad as well.
When Milgem introduced, someone were making a fuss as if ship had a balance problem. If i wrote what some people at the beginning of some programs was talking in this field, it would probably be a novel today and some of you would be shocked as well but nowadays no one mention what they claimed at past so everyone should pay attention to the comments they write.
As you said military products aren't considered and evaluated like models in beauty contests, so it shouldn't bother you guys if somebody think it's ugly. Beauty is a personal taste and it's relative.
This is a forum where people can express their opinion. If it's not the case and a bandwagon to praise everything our companies do, what is the point of the having a forum. People here talking about the product based on the available data we have, some of you guys arguing how we should think and what we should say or not. When we have a clearer photo, we can discuss, maybe admit we were wrong and so. It's not dowplaying the effort of engineers, but engineers are also human and can make mistake, otherwise F-35 would have been a perfect aircraft, with companies that are building aircraft for many years and astronomical budget.
I guess neither T-129 nor Milgem are perfect designs which might have their flaws. But our comments here doesn't make them less useful.
Of course. But we are just arguing with the data we have so far which is the point of forums.
It should not be forgotten that engineers are also human just like us and they can make mistakes too.
Otherwise, the Hürkuş 2 project wouldn't be carried out right now.
Or we can look at the UK's AFV project.
I disagree about Hürkuş. It is not ''problematic'', of course. But if Hürkuş had fully met the requirements of TURAF, the Hürkuş 2 project would not have been made.Of course, engineers are human too but these people are all qualified in their departments and work in teams of hundreds of people to create a common synergy for each sections that they were charged. Each design line is repeatedly reviewed and tested in a computer environment. The stresses that will apply to each section are calculated and then prototypes are developed and they look at how well the numerical datas they gain match the facts of prototypes. They go to re-optimization on the necessary issues and a similar process starts again. As a result, there is a light year difference between those who comment on keyboards and those who are in this project.
Fault finding is a matter that requires in-depth technical knowledge. You have to be an expert in that field in order to find what has escaped hundreds of engineers so what I said is only Turkish engineering processes need to be respected. There's no point playing "engineering" on a low resolution photo. There is no relationship between the Hurkus project and the development of Hurkus-2 and this issue. Hurkus-2 was developed not because Hurkus-1 was problematic.
A comparison to TF-X here is not fitting, as TF-X is a never seen before milestone. T929 however is to be TAI's swansong on helicopter department with its years of experience with T129, very close cooperation with Leonardo and T625. Thousands of manhours, brilliant engineers coming up with plans can and still create mistakes that waste time and lose millions in Turkey and abroad. It happens. There may be multiple reasons for this setup. What is certain is that for some reason, from what we can see from the photo, at this current setup, EO will have flashes when that 30mm opens up and when T929 moves forward nose tilted down, EO will interrupt the gun's FOV. This was obviously a design choice to account for something else. I just want to learn why.
As said, we will see and probably learn more when she's rolled out.
Agreed on the first two paragraphs.Engineering is the profession of solving problems with processes. Thqt's why ITR, ASR, PDR, CDR, IOC and FOC are followed in all projects. that's why prototypes are developed and tested, problems are gradually found, resolved, submitted for approval and a series of problems are re-dealt with until best is reached. In front of customer, it must be seen that requirements are fully met and thrn production approval is given. Besides, If you want a platform to take heavier load, it can be bulky or if you want it to be very agile, there are many issues that you have to waive. There is no such thing as perfection so we are talking about demands all the time for all projects.
But our issue here is different. Many people squabble about project just by looking at a low-resolution photo frame without answering questions of what, why and how about Atak2. Some are politicizing project and a complete culture of lynching is being developed for projeect. It is out of the question for us to allow it in this platform because this state of debate is clearly disrespectful to engineers. No one should consider himself superior in terms of knowledge and experience due to the design choices made by hundreds of engineers in line with requirements while sitting in front of the computer screen. Tusaş that not evaluating effect of the gun's gas/flash is out of the question for me in this design but Criticism of this situation will only emerge if such an issue is encountered in actual tests. It would not be a healthy criticism to come to this conclusion by looking at such a low resolution photo. If a problem occurs in trials, the eng. process I have already mentioned will be reversed and re-modification will be made of course, but we don't have any data on such an issue at present.
If we are going to talk about the effect of gun's position on Flir, it is useful to examine AH-1Z example. In this regard, it may be thought that AH1Z's gun blocks FlIR image when it fires while cruising forward but we don't know what realities are in operational terms and we dont know demands of US army as well. this helicopter is one of the most famous in the world and it was built over the experiences of the year. That's why commenting with images doesn't give healthy results.
Now imagine, if we assume that Atak-2 prototype is this image, who knows what our "wise" people would talk about.
If memory serves, this was the mock up of an unmanned battery powered t-629 helicopter project that did not go any further than what you see in this picture.This seems to belong to the T629.
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This is such a good-sounding idea that I will be disappointed if there is no radar in the nose.what if tomorrow it is revealed that the helicopter has an AESA radar in the nose?
LOL ain't it?This is such a good-sounding idea that I will be disappointed if there is no radar in the nose.
A massive AESA radar in the nose cone and possibliy antennas distributed throughout the helicopter, like MMU. Powerful EW, CM, long-range intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition and also BLOS loitering attack systems to be developed specifically for the chopper. You have shone such a light in my head that even as I imagine it, a smile forms on my face.LOL ain't it?
I criticized the criticizers here with the question "what if".
Everyone has the right to criticize but why criticize things from just a photo without a knowledge of what is installed in that nose. Criticize if must but don't give empty critics without waiting for official explanations. It's like criticizing a sniper gun: "why is the barrel length 80cm, 30cm would have looked better" without even knowing the reason why a 80cm barrel is chosen.
Criticizing is good but do it with some backup knowledge, not out of empty stoma. Have a bit patience guys.