Latest Thread
China is ahead of Türkiye in every field of technology as of now. There are a few fields that we have better products in.On the fact that China can do what ever it wants with Pakistan. Remember that we’re talking about the Chinese. Their eagerness to copy, steal, and learn foreign critical tech is well known, they’re not even hiding it. Will be a good opportunity for them if they can get their hands on Kaan for sure.
While I understand your point quite well. I and many others still don't think including Pakistan into the project is necessary at this moment. Let's just say Pakistan can join in 2040.The world is on the eve of significant changes. Note August 22nd. The flare will be fired there. The world financial system, especially dollarization, may experience significant shock waves in the coming period. Forget linear growth projections and world economic forecasts for the 2050-2070s. The road is full of pitfalls and obstacles, and very few of those supposedly promising countries will make it to the finish line as predicted.
You need those African countries that you consider unimportant, where you have an officer stage a coup every 10 years on a Sunday morning. Because without that country, you will not have fuel rods for your power plants, your industry will not have the advantage of raw materials, and you will not keep their gold reserves in your own vault. You need it, you have to ensure it through cooperation, even if it cannot happen in a system of exploitation. TR is not a fully developed economy. But if the goal is to reach that finish line, we have to see which way the world is evolving. Economy, energy and food security, national security in the context of military capabilities... You can look at it from many different perspectives, you can't get everything by only fighting.
Regarding the KAAN project, I am not against opening this project to Azerbaijan and Pakistan. In fact, I am in favor of 'absolutely and positively' including Indonesia and secondarily Malaysia in this project in some way, through significant ToT agreements if necessary. We can also add some emerging economies of south/east Asia and the Latin region. And as far as I can see, the KAAN program (I'm talking about the whole concept, not just the aircraft itself) is on its way to becoming a euro-asian funded project. A security bond is the most lasting way to build a bond of trust. Sometimes it will not be enough to fight for yourself, you must also be able to liberate your friend.
TLDR, issues need to be approached holistically. Turkiye's indigenization efforts in aerospace and creating whole brand new independent*(as much as it can) industry are not the only necessary need to be done. There are issues such as energy, food security, macroeconomic stability. And even reaching up to the 'balance of terror' (you know what I mean) under the heading of Defense. There are some ways to accelerate these steps in a coordinated way. Or you can try to tackle them one by one with your limited resources and capacity: and all alone, ignoring the fact that you are blocked at every turn by those with whom you are formally allied.
The claim that Pakistan will leak KAAN to China is based on what fact ?
True. But the EU's idiocy helped a lot! For example they managed their relations with Russia and Türkiye very badly.Some 20 years ago, the EU region combined was about twice the size of the US economy. When the time came, the US moved a few stones in the security paradigm of regional geopolitics and pulled the EU's strings wherever it wanted. This is actually the most exemplary event in the political history of the last century.
Remember,everything we asked in the past which we didnt have they offered(better offer) right after we developed and produced it ourselves.My fear too is about likely embargo but logically US wouldn't embargo Turkiye for F110 engines. The platforms that engines are going to be integrated and country that the platforms (with US engine) are going to be used must be specified and guaranteed when obtaining permission for engine from US. In the future, if Pakistan gives a certain order for TFX for example, then embargo may be on the agenda for requested F110s, as it is the same case with LHTEC engines for Pakistan but not for Turkiye. In any way, Turkiye will continues on its course.
No,its not about money,its about forming a base for the future place of the country.It seems to me the Kaan Jet is all about making money rather than having a jet to be self sufficient.
When your country is under attack.
You cant fight with a bag of money.
No,its not about money,its about forming a base for the future place of the country.
Look at what the US did with all its money,weapons exported to or JV's with its allies.
All of them without any real weapons industry(except UK and France) are dependent on the US.
Using that logic , Turkey shouldn't trust anyone including Azerbaijan . What would guaranty that Azerbaijan won’t leak KAAN technology and information to Israel ? Israel friendship with Azerbaijan is deep and they sold them critical weaponry even before Turkey did .
I hope you don’t say ( brotherhood and turkic history etc ) . Just let me remind you with 2023 election beef between KK and Aliyev regarding Iran corridor .
International relation is complicated but the number 1 rule is nothing last forever
China is ahead of Türkiye in every field of technology as of now. There are a few fields that we have better products in.
Post 9234,im guessing you missed it?Bro the country is so corrupt that isis even bragged about how they can get nukes from Pakistan.
Because thats how easy it is to bribe them because corruption there is rife from top to bottom.
If Pakistan ''implodes'' as you put it then there is no deal(automatic cancellation) but if Pakistan makes it it will come out stronger.Honestly Im all for cooperation with Pakistan if they get their act together to be stable and not be dependant on China.
Right now it just wont work. That country is imploding.
In some parts of Pakistan you literally have TTP and Tribal people running certain parts of the country. Some parts are lawless.
Can you imagine where you cant even impose your laws and even rules in your own country.
Not to mention the economy and corruption then you have terrorism and extremism that is plaguing Pakistan.
If Pakistan is actually getting the Kaan cooperation they better give us something in return like Nukes and Icbms. Also their fertile lands.
I'm thinking everyone is aware of your comment's meaning at this point. But, two points. Having something already and having to ask for permission to get something are two very different things. F-16s also use F110s, we use them however we like. US did threaten us with cutting the supply but had to walk that back once we started gathering spares from all over the world. In the same light, had Turkey received its first batch of F-35s, US wouldn't be able to cut Turkey off the program as quickly. That was a major defeat for us. When you need the permission in the first place your hands are tied from the beginning. You have lots more leeways to explore when you have the thing in your hands.While, lets say, these aircrafts are in production for the air force, what past bond of trust makes us think that the US will continue to provide these engines when the need arises to hot-contact in Greece, the western-backed structure in south Cyprus or, in a much more extreme example, in Armenia, or even, in a much more grave example, when a complete sweep operation is required against the terrorist organization in our southeast?
Technically, as long as you are dependent on the US, you cannot use the systems you have against US interests. You can throw away license agreements, you can act outside the international system. But that doesn't change the meaning of anything: You are equally constrained in your ability to act outside US interests as you are in your ability to export military strategic exports that are not in US interests. To emphasize one and completely ignore the other is pure Atlanticist thinking. Don't sell to anyone, keep buying from me, and if you need to use it, then we'll talk.
Reducing security dependency is first and foremost a question of survival. Some 20 years ago, the EU region combined was about twice the size of the US economy. When the time came, the US moved a few stones in the security paradigm of regional geopolitics and pulled the EU's strings wherever it wanted. This is actually the most exemplary event in the political history of the last century.
But would they act logically, or would they take the chance to cripple the project by blocking the sale of engines altogether? With one embargo on engines they can set us years back on production and testing, and not just on Kaan but also on Hürjet if they choose to do so. We are giving them an ace to keep in their sleeve so that they can hold it over our heads.
I fail to see how the US can tamper with the development process of the TF-35K. They already tried what they possibly could do with the development of the TF-6K, and they managed to delay the progress for... 6 months.and also need the TF35000 be ready in time. None of this is possible unless US plays ball.
We should conduct a conclusive op into Syria while the winds are this favorable. I know its off-topic but I want this to be known.general conjuncture signals that US wants to avoid conflict route with Turkiye at present so they want to keep CATSAA and S400 off agenda, bring up joint cooperation mechanisms and try to direct all their concentration to Russia. They are losing Gulf Arabs, bleeding some regions in Africa.