TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Cabatli_TR]

But would they act logically, or would they take the chance to cripple the project by blocking the sale of engines altogether? With one embargo on engines they can set us years back on production and testing, and not just on Kaan but also on Hürjet if they choose to do so. We are giving them an ace to keep in their sleeve so that they can hold it over our heads.

Indeed they can do but when they want to impose an embargo on F110, you know, they don't need any reason. They can put forward any reason such as our presence in "Cyprus"/Libya, our operations in Syria, our "destabilizing role" in Eastern Med, problems with Greece in Aegean, re-heating of S400s, our trade with Russia..etc. If their intention is not to qpprove engines, Pakistan will only have +1 more reason to put forward but general conjuncture signals that US wants to avoid conflict route with Turkiye at present so they want to keep CATSAA and S400 off agenda, bring up joint cooperation mechanisms and try to direct all their concentration to Russia. They are losing Gulf Arabs, bleeding some regions in Africa. The biggest challenge is still rising in Far East and they can't prevent emerging challenges in any geographies at present so I do not think that Pakistan's partnership for Kaan will reverse this developing situation with Turkiye but it is true that we will always be at risk for one reason or another as long as we depend on US for Engine. They need us more than ever so I see embargo less likely today but the situation may change and their reaction may be totally different tomorrow. The reason for existence of Tf35K is to remove this dependency forever and prepare for all possibilities of tomorrow.

 

[Heartbang]

and also need the TF35000 be ready in time. None of this is possible unless US plays ball.

I fail to see how the US can tamper with the development process of the TF-35K. They already tried what they possibly could do with the development of the TF-6K, and they managed to delay the progress for... 6 months.

 

[uçuyorum]

I'm against selling to whomever just in order to say we were able to export it. Exporting something to pakistan or partnering with them won't impress anyone.

 

[Heartbang]

general conjuncture signals that US wants to avoid conflict route with Turkiye at present so they want to keep CATSAA and S400 off agenda, bring up joint cooperation mechanisms and try to direct all their concentration to Russia. They are losing Gulf Arabs, bleeding some regions in Africa.

We should conduct a conclusive op into Syria while the winds are this favorable. I know its off-topic but I want this to be known.

 

[B_A]

Btw,Chinese,just like other eastern Asian countries(japan and others)

They only think the West and Russia as their rival,they see others are backward countries.

Actually in Chinese they only see KAAN as a toy which i post many news before.

Chinese still think their UAV and J20 light years better than us.

Sadly we still need many work to prove ourselves.

 

[Bogeyman]

When you talk about Pakistan, you mean a country ready to shed its blood with us in Cyprus. The effort of the people of this country to spend their friends is exemplary. Fortunately, this country is not governed by the opinions of certain friends in this forum.

 

[Numberone]

I am getting sick of these 'ummah' loving people. The only positive thing about Turkey is the defense industry and they are going to fuck up this industry aswell. Pakistan is not our brother country nor do we have anything common with them. They will not bring any benefits to this project but only EMBARGOES!

 

[cr33pt3d]

I see no problem adding Pakistan to Kaan, i don't think we will let anyone access sensitive stuff, most probably some parts could be built elsewhere, the only problem i have is the money, they are in a worst economic situation than us, what kind of money can they put on the table ? we will probably need to put a credit line to make them partners. what is the point? they are already heavily invested with china , because china lend the money, but we can't.
unless some of the gulf countries join the party, it's gonna be difficult.
let's suppose first planes cost 100M$ - 130M$ per plane, how quick can we add those to inventory, let's assume 2 plane par month that means 24 a year something between 2.4B$ to 3.1B$ a year.
There is TF2000 on agenda, SIPER in big numbers, something around the 10 - 14 batteries, next Drone LHD, Altay etc ....
i will stop here because we have a shitload off stuff that needs to enter inventory. we need people with money, no broke partners .

 

[Bürküt]

On the fact that China can do what ever it wants with Pakistan. Remember that we’re talking about the Chinese. Their eagerness to copy, steal, and learn foreign critical tech is well known, they’re not even hiding it. Will be a good opportunity for them if they can get their hands on Kaan for sure.

Just looking at what they did to get training from western pilots is enough.

Avustralya, Çinli savaş pilotlarını eğiten İngiliz subayların peşinde

Avustralya’da emekli İngiliz savaş pilotlarının yüksek ücretler karşılığında Çin Hava Kuvvetleri personelini eğittiği yolundaki suçlamalarla ilgili bir İngiliz eğitim pilotunun evine baskın düzenlediği ortaya çıktı

tr.euronews.com

İngiliz pilotlar Batı savaş uçaklarını alt etmek için Çinli pilotları eğitiyor

Çin, Silahlı Kuvvetlerine Batı savaş uçaklarını ve helikopterlerini “İngiltere'nin çıkarlarına yönelik bir tehdit” olarak nasıl yeneceğini öğretmek için düzinelerce eski İngiliz askeri pilotunu işe aldı.

gdh.digital

Eski ABD pilotu Çin pilotlarına eğitim vermekle suçlanıyor

Avustralya'da tutuklanan eski ABD Deniz Piyadeleri pilotu Daniel Duggan, yasa dışı şekilde Çin askeri pilotlarına uçak gemilerine iniş yapmak dahil deniz havacılığı eğitimi vermek suçundan yargılanacak.

www.trthaber.com

 

[Merzifonlu]

There is another possibility. Let's say the GE F110 engines did not come, for our Kaan block 10s. Then, until the TEI TF 35000 engine is finished, we will host the planes produced by Pakistan with Chinese engines equivalent to F110. The planes are Pakistani and the pilots are Pakistani, just like on Qatari planes.

 

[Radko]

All aircraft delivered to TurAF for the first batch -apart from prototypes- will be Block 10s, not 0

 

[Merzifonlu]

All aircraft delivered to TurAF for the first batch -apart from prototypes- will be Block 10s, not 0

Thanks, I corrected it.

 

[B_A]

I see no problem adding Pakistan to Kaan, i don't think we will let anyone access sensitive stuff, most probably some parts could be built elsewhere, the only problem i have is the money, they are in a worst economic situation than us, what kind of money can they put on the table ? we will probably need to put a credit line to make them partners. what is the point? they are already heavily invested with china , because china lend the money, but we can't.
unless some of the gulf countries join the party, it's gonna be difficult.
let's suppose first planes cost 100M$ - 130M$ per plane, how quick can we add those to inventory, let's assume 2 plane par month that means 24 a year something between 2.4B$ to 3.1B$ a year.
There is TF2000 on agenda, SIPER in big numbers, something around the 10 - 14 batteries, next Drone LHD, Altay etc ....
i will stop here because we have a shitload off stuff that needs to enter inventory. we need people with money, no broke partners .

Didnt pakistan had the arab money to buy plane?How did they pay our T-129 and Ada class before?

 

[cr33pt3d]

Didnt pakistan had the arab money to buy plane?How did they pay our T-129 and Ada class before?

i dont' think there is any payment for t129 , i don't know the details of the milgem contract. i know that they received 3B$ from China and 2.5B$ from saudis recently, don't think it's for military purchase.

 

[No Name]

It isn't clear whether or not they are going to operate the KAAN fighter anytime soon or not, Their entry into the project may be more about creating an off-shore supply chain to offset the cost rather than a sale.

As for the risk of advanced Turkish tech getting into the Chinese hand. It Is possible that a less capable version (-5th gen fighter) is sold to Pakistan which is not an uncommon practice in fighter sales, in fact, the US was going to sell a less advance version of the F35 to the UAE.

 

[Afif]

It isn't clear whether or not they are going to operate the KAAN fighter anytime soon or not, Their entry into the project may be more about creating an off-shore supply chain to offset the cost rather than a sale.

As for the risk of advanced Turkish tech getting into the Chinese hand. It Is possible that a less capable version (-5th gen fighter) is sold to Pakistan which is not an uncommon practice in fighter sales, in fact, the US was going to sell a less advance version of the F35 to the UAE.

Well, if it becomes too 'less', they may turn toward PRC. (Which likely to offer J-35)

Remember, nothing is final yet.

 

[B_A]

i dont' think there is any payment for t129 , i don't know the details of the milgem contract. i know that they received 3B$ from China and 2.5B$ from saudis recently, don't think it's for military purchase.

I know finally they didn’t pay the T-129 but in case we sell them how will they pay back the 1.5billion usd?

 

[cr33pt3d]

I know finally they didn’t pay the T-129 but in case we sell them how will they pay back the 1.5billion usd?

probably loan from EximBank, at least that how it's done in every arm exporting countries.

 

[Heartbang]

Pakistan is not our brother country nor do we have anything common with them.

A-duh. You dutch are a world apart indeed.

 

[TheInsider]

Pakistan can't contribute with money, can't contribute with expertise/tech. We can always hire Pakistani engineers if need be no need to make them a partner. Pakistan can contribute with low production costs for some low-tech structural parts but again Turkiye doesn't need to make Pakistan a partner for this.

Here is my offer. We should give them an industrial work package that benefits us and keep the costs in check. This way Pakistan will also earn some money. Turkiye should also offer the right to priority purchase after Turkiye. This way Pakistan will have access to a 5th gen air superiority platform in the 2030s and we should sell those two little things big. Initially, Pakistan will order a small amount of Kaan anyway.

Azerbaijan can contribute with money and people shouldn't forget that we signed and ratified Shusha Declaration 2 states are officially allies of the closest kind. We will have a single airspace in the future.