TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[YeşilVatan]

The Americans have decades of experience with aerospace and aviation that qualify them to make a drone 100x better than KE in the same timespan of KE.

SpaceX did extensive testing that took them around 4 years for the first successful launch before their first mission in 2012 and it was mini NASA cargo mission.

Baykar with 0 experience in the Jet and stealth business announcing that 2024 will deliver KE is utterly ridiculous.

Yet it was the Turkish drone doctrine that changed the course of 3-4 conflicts while Americans droned Afganistan to bits with no results. No one here is saying American's can't produce an absolute monster if they put work into it. They just don't. There are reasons for it.

USA had the technology and the means to produce something like that in their war on terror during 00s. If they utilized something like Turkey did, their invasions of both Iraq and Afghanistan would fare WAY better and cheaper. This docrinal stiffness partly originates from being the dominant superpower, but also from how their MIC operates. Their MIC is geared towards pleasing the Pentagon, the shareholders and PR people. This means they make very, very good stuff but achieve very little in doctrinal breaktroughs such as Turkish air-land drone warfare concept. Kızılelma is one such example. Air Force bigwigs insist manned aircraft is the centerpiece, and will continue to be for the next two decades. But is it? Or are they just change-averse?

The other thing is, US defence contractors have ZERO start-up energy. Everything goes through a commission. Their checks-and-balances system is good when it comes to filtering out useless stuff, so they manage to produce robust platforms, but it consumes A LOT of money. Putting aside the PPP problem, do you not think that the costs they have is not wildly overblown? And is it so hard to think that this might also be a problem when it comes to R&D timetables, too?

And lastly, US drone development was affected for at least a decade from acute politicization. Do you remember the "morality of drone strikes" debate? It was a huge thing in both later Bush years and also Obama years. If you were an Air Force decision maker, and you had the endless resources to do the same job but manned, would you not choose the non-drone option just to avoid politics of it? I strongly believe that's what they did, and it set US drone advancement at least a decade back.

Anyway, you are free to believe we are neanderthals who can't produce tech, but I suspect you wil be humbled in the future.

 

[AWP]

@YeşilVatan

I genuinely don't understand how you and others concluded this ( who can't produce tech ) notion here.

My criticism to Baykar that a company with no experience in a whole new sector for them just develop and deliver a unmanned stealth drone in just 3 years. this has nothing to do with Baykar only but with any company that make such a claim. I don't doubt Baykar ability to pull that off, but for such drone they need a long time and others help. from what I see, KE is just Akinci but with new body !

On the other hand TAI can be trusted with Anka-3 to deliver the expected. TAI have an aerospace manufacturing experience and most importantly they will use what they have learned in KAAN project into the Anka-3.

If the government hold a competition between TAI and Baykar for a drone that fit the same KE capability, honestly who would win ?

 

[Afif]

If the government hold a competition between TAI and Baykar for a drone that fit the same KE capability, honestly who would win ?

But they are NOT the same. KE and ANKA-3 offer different capabilities.

 

[AWP]

But they are NOT the same. KE and ANKA-3 offer different capabilities.

read again

 

[wolveray1]

Tbh Baykar will win.
Somehow Baykar kinda inspire confidence ,pionering spirit and can do attitude.
While Tai is an established company that need to go through a lot of bureaucracy to acheived it objective.

 

[Zafer]

Baykar's capabilities stacked up rapidly. Their intial success fueled their confidence to move faster. But they are not the only ones. Predator drone inventor Abraham Karem had told that in their early days they could put a drone togather in just 3 months. Standards at those times were non existent but still they were up to US military stabdards. So why not.

 

[boredaf]

@YeşilVatan

I genuinely don't understand how you and others concluded this ( who can't produce tech ) notion here.

My criticism to Baykar that a company with no experience in a whole new sector for them just develop and deliver a unmanned stealth drone in just 3 years. this has nothing to do with Baykar only but with any company that make such a claim. I don't doubt Baykar ability to pull that off, but for such drone they need a long time and others help. from what I see, KE is just Akinci but with new body !

On the other hand TAI can be trusted with Anka-3 to deliver the expected. TAI have an aerospace manufacturing experience and most importantly they will use what they have learned in KAAN project into the Anka-3.

If the government hold a competition between TAI and Baykar for a drone that fit the same KE capability, honestly who would win ?

What exactly is your argument here? They are experienced in drone technology, they made KE and it has been flying for months now? What is supposed to be the scam here? Oh, also, if you think it is just Akıncı with a new body, you need your eyes checked asap. Baykar's products also delivered what they promised so far, why would they fail with KE, because it is different?

Anka-3 hasn't even flown yet, and it is a completely new design for Tusas as well. Flying wing is not a simple thing, there is as much chance as Anka-3 failing as KE, if not more. Stop being biased against companies because of your politics, it is childish.

 

[Kitra]

My criticism to Baykar that a company with no experience in a whole new sector for them just develop and deliver a unmanned stealth drone in just 3 years.

The company which you state have zero experiance is the worlds BIGGEST drone manufacturer with the BEST drones in the world in their classes with both TB2 and Akinci being second to none. Both these drones can compete in capability with any american drone in their class, specifically if you consider price as well.

Then, you don't seem to understand what makes a good drone. The fuselage is just a small part of it with little to hide from prying eyes as we all know how the f22/f35/... looks like. However, the easily copied fuselage is not enough to make a good drone. You also need very good software, a large set of good ammunition, sensor, material knowledge for the fuselage and more. You also need political support and an agile company which can adopt to changing condition. Baykar has all this.

As a final word. You make a good product by producing a basic unit and then continuously improve on it by getting feedback from the user. this is called fast development cycle. Most aviation companies don't have it but Baykar have had this philosophy from day one.

 

[Anmdt]

So why call it ''mass production'' then?
''Seri üretim''

Sounds better than telling LRIP in turkish.
Same is done for other platforms or weapons by different companies as well, they mention of serial production -seri uretim- instead of LRIP.

 

[Sanchez]

Sounds better than telling LRIP in turkish.
Same is done for other platforms or weapons by different companies as well, they mention of serial production -seri uretim- instead of LRIP.

Tbh, if we do a deep dive, a majority of our products that start serial production are actually just LRIP whether it's vehicles, munitions, missiles, etc.

 

[Yasar_TR]

As far as I understand, Mr Bayraktar has said “serial production”. Not mass production.
Serial production of a complex machine like a plane is never the same as producing prototypes. You need to get the eco system to feed the production line, ready. You need to straighten out the kinks in production.
There will be many obstacles and hurdles that need to be sorted before a fully fledged KE is in production. This bird is not a TB2 and not the same as Akinci. Akinci is a stable and slow flying machine. KE is an unstable jet engine powered fighter plane with a potentially supersonic airframe. It may be ready for Low Rate Initial Production run trials. But it will still need a lot of tweaking before it is fully combat ready.
Personally I can’t wait to see the engine with after burner fitted to this plane. Especially when the TF10000 is ready. It will be a monster and a game changer level aircraft.

 

[Anmdt]

As far as I understand, Mr Bayraktar has said “serial production”. Not mass production.

There is no difference in Turkish language, i have never seen mass production to be called "toplu üretim", it is always referred as "seri üretim/imalat".
What is going to happen perfectly fits to definition of LRIP as well, the platform has not been, yet, tested by TurAF or TN.

 

[Yasar_TR]

There is no difference in Turkish language, i have never seen mass production to be called "toplu üretim", it is always referred as "seri üretim/imalat".
What is going to happen perfectly fits to definition of LRIP as well, the platform has not been, yet, tested by TurAF or TN.

100% correct.
In Turkish language there is no specific difference.
However, in mass production, the production of article in question is continuous.
In serial production, a specific batch of goods is produced, then there is a downtime. After the downtime, production system may be altered or upgraded and prepared to produce brand-new articles by restarting or stopping altogether until as and when the next order comes in.
As we are communicating in English we should be interpreting his speech within the context he is using, rather than translating it word by word.

 

[B_A]

The Americans have decades of experience with aerospace and aviation that qualify them to make a drone 100x better than KE in the same timespan of KE.

SpaceX did extensive testing that took them around 4 years for the first successful launch before their first mission in 2012 and it was mini NASA cargo mission.

Baykar with 0 experience in the Jet and stealth business announcing that 2024 will deliver KE is utterly ridiculous.

Newcomers defeat the old giant is very normal in the world.

1950-70s,The American and British have decades of experience with Automotive Industry then easily defeated by Japanese.

1990-2000s The Japanese household appliances makers which have decades of experience defeated by Chinese and Korean company.

 

[Oublious]

@YeşilVatan



On the other hand TAI can be trusted with Anka-3 to deliver the expected. TAI have an aerospace manufacturing experience and most importantly they will use what they have learned in KAAN project into the Anka-3.

If the government hold a competition between TAI and Baykar for a drone that fit the same KE capability, honestly who would win ?

Why is ANKA-3 still not flying? What if ANKA-3 never will fly? Or maybe 1 year later?

 

[Oublious]

Our neighbour and ther rental drone...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1694748928539783329

 

[Agha Sher]

Selcuk Bayraktar given a tour on board USS Ford. Meanwhile, TB3 is counting days for first flight.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1694999522638774739

 

[dBSPL]

A new sub-cloud VTOL system:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1695136505130291685

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1695381400281636925

GÖKHUN is getting ready for duty:
- Positioned between tactical and mini UAVs, GÖKHUN Unmanned Aerial Vehicle System will be able to operate in ship and land-based operations with "the highest payload and endurance in its class".
- 110kg maximum take-off weight
- 18 kilograms payload capacity
- 16 hours in the air with 12 kilograms payload


I think one more system's images will be shared during the day. The experience and know-how accumulated in semi-military and military UAV systems in the tactical-to-mini range, as well as the interest in indigenisation and investment, show that the sector is now on its way to becoming a global supplier. Soon such things will become daily news, and I think it has already started to happen.

Edit:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1695400346611306613

 

[Quasar]

A new sub-cloud VTOL system:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1695136505130291685

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1695381400281636925

GÖKHUN is getting ready for duty:
- Positioned between tactical and mini UAVs, GÖKHUN Unmanned Aerial Vehicle System will be able to operate in ship and land-based operations with "the highest payload and endurance in its class".
- 110kg maximum take-off weight
- 18 kilograms payload capacity
- 16 hours in the air with 12 kilograms payload


I think one more system's images will be shared during the day. The experience and know-how accumulated in semi-military and military UAV systems in the tactical-to-mini range, as well as the interest in indigenisation and investment, show that the sector is now on its way to becoming a global supplier. Soon such things will become daily news, and I think it has already started to happen.

Edit:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1695400346611306613

ESEN seems to be one of the hidden gems

in addition to the unmanned aerial systems they have, they are also dealing with some important sub systems and products as well, For instance,

• ESEN has confirmed that it has tested its GöRDES Vision-Based Navigation (VBN) system on a range of different UAS (unmanned aerial systems) at altitudes from 1000 to 15,000 feet AGL. The platforms used for the trials included the NATO Class III ANKA MALE (medium altitude long endurance) UAV, as well as Class I small UAS. Althought it is not new or unique the good new is the number of our companies dealing with similar systems or products are increasing and such systems are becaming a common feature.

GöRDES Vision-Based Navigation System provides accurate and real time position, velocity and attitude information for aerial vehicles under GNSS denied conditions via onboard imaging and image processing.​

However, GNSS signals are widely subject to jamming and spoofing under operational conditions. To mitigate this vulnerability, alternative ways of navigation are needed. Thanks to advances in image processing, photogrammetry, and computer vision, studies on image-based navigation systems have come to the fore as complementary systems.​

By using image processing and computer vision algorithms, GöRDES provides position, velocity, and attitude information by matching the previously captured onboard satellite/aerial images with the images taken from the GöRDES camera system of the aerial platform. GöRDES provides accurate positioning and attitude information for aerial vehicles to complete their mission and safely return home.​

 

[Sanchez]

Second TB3 prototype, from Teknofest Ankara.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1696547073858945481