TR UAV/UCAV Programs | Anka - series | Kızılelma | TB - series

[AWP]

Anka4 is meant to be a superior fighter jet to Kızılelma.

and the problem is ?

 

[Zafer]

and the problem is ?

It will kill piloted planes and nobody is ready for this.

 

[Rodeo]

It will kill piloted planes.

I presume you say this in a tongue-in-cheek manner and not really expecting a serious answer.

 

[TR_123456]

Anka-4 will spell the end for manned fighters. If you want to kill Hürkuş, Hürjet and even Kaan go ahead and start Anka4, that's shooting oneself on the foot. Such a capable unmanned fighter can even eliminate the need for a large air force. Is the US making one or the Brits, where is an example?

This post makes no sense at all,what is your objective here?

 

[Zafer]

This post makes no sense at all,what is your objective here?

You make a powerfull unmanned fighter and once you have it you don't want to deploy your manned fighters anymore. You only want manned fighters as a backup and you want less and less of them as it is costly. A fast paced transition to unmanned fighters will trigger the west against it as it will take the place of lucrative manned fighter market. You want to take it slow to make the most of the market demand. You want to distrupt but distrupt nicely, not aggressively.

 

[Zafer]

I presume you say this in a tongue-in-cheek manner and not really expecting a serious answer.

Let's say piloted plane market.

 

[what]

If someone is going to develop drones that will supplement KAAN, its going to be TAI. They will not let those cross-sell / upsell opportunities go to competition. So of course they will develop Anka 3 and 4 and eventually 5.

 

[Kaan Azman]

ANKA-4 would either be the full scale air superiority unmanned fighter or the enlarged ANKA-3.

• For the first case, it will have to match KAAN in flight/combat/stealth performance but KIZILELMA would remain a more cost effective platform even with twin engine variant due to the design being overall simpler and earlier. Competition would be an unhealthy way of wording it as ANKA-3 and KIZILELMA represent the workshare of TAI and Baykar in jet powered UAV field by filling both gaps.
• For the second case, I gave it a possibility as AKSUNGUR, ANKA's larger brother was once called ANKA-2. Another reason is there are already plans to make a larger variant with greater payload (Aka the bomber UAV that is among our sweetest dreams)

 

[Rooxbar]

It's not like Temel Kotil woke up yesterday and decided he wants an Anka-4 as a treat for Christmas. This timeline for TAI products was shared in 2015:

As you can see a smaller air-to-ground bomber (Anka-3) is supposed to be ready by 2024 (?) to be developed into a mature and bigger bomber by 2027 or 2028. And a parallel air-to-air one (Anka-4) is supposed to be ready before 2025 to be developed into the mature version by 2030. They are ahead of the schedule on Akna-3, and presumably started work on Anka-4 right after work on Anka-3 started more than 2 years ago because they are supposed to follow each other rather closely in terms of schedule. So yeah these are deep plans and serious strategic goals and everything going according to plan on the timeline front. (except mass brain drain of engineers due to Nas economy and social pressure on libs [which most well-educated but politically naive people are, so you shouldn't mess with their concerts and bars and shit] )

 

[CAN_TR]

RED KAAN's loyal wingman???
PURPLE unmanned fighter???

 

[Kaan Azman]

I'd say just both anyway since whatever TUSAS has planned for an unmanned air superiority platform, it should match KAAN MMU in overall performance to keep up with the leader.

 

[Anmdt]

RED KAAN's loyal wingman???
PURPLE unmanned fighter???

View attachment 60676

It more refers to an evolution given in the roadmap that first product is rather small from the actual dimensions and made to mature technology, strategy and CONOPS. Built faster, tested faster. Yet this still can be a product but not fulfilling the whole capability of the concept.

 

[zio]

I guess anka4 will not be an unmanned fighter like kızılelma,it must be a bigger version of anka3 with two engine ,thats a big step but with little effort

 

[boredaf]

So, T925, 10t utility helicopter, possibly T629, Hürkuş-2, Hürjet, Kaan, Anka-3, Özgür and Süper Şimşek (or whatever it is called) isn't enough, Temel Kotil wants to add another project. And I haven't even mentioned stuff they are producing right now or the engine projects we have to be running (not directly Tusas, I know).

It is starting to feel like he is trying to juggle too many balls unnecessarily.

 

[uçuyorum]

So, T925, 10t utility helicopter, possibly T629, Hürkuş-2, Hürjet, Kaan, Anka-3, Özgür and Süper Şimşek (or whatever it is called) isn't enough, Temel Kotil wants to add another project. And I haven't even mentioned stuff they are producing right now or the engine projects we have to be running (not directly Tusas, I know).

It is starting to feel like he is trying to juggle too many balls unnecessarily.

He has stated before he wants to grow TUSAŞ and basically compete with lockheed in aerospace. And it is meaningful to have future projects being worked on with less focus at conceptual stage at all times, only issue here is stating it too early to public. I appreciate the ambition at least. But obviously they weren't gonna just do Anka 3 and stop there. I don't know why anyone is surprised.

 

[boredaf]

He has stated before he wants to grow TUSAŞ and basically compete with lockheed in aerospace. And it is meaningful to have future projects being worked on with less focus at conceptual stage at all times, only issue here is stating it too early to public. I appreciate the ambition at least. But obviously they weren't gonna just do Anka 3 and stop there. I don't know why anyone is surprised.

Because they haven't done Anka-3, or any of the projects I mentioned. Anka-3 is still on the ground and it won't be done once it flies either.

 

[Agha Sher]

If Baykar made those statements we would see different reaction

Of course reaction would be different. Baykar is more the cherry on top while TAI is the workhorse of Turkiye's aviation industry. Baykar fails in something, no big problem. TAI failing in their crucial projects will have huge consequences for Turkiye.

What TAI is doing is simply too important. Turkiye cannot afford a TAI not living up to expectations.

 

[uçuyorum]

Because they haven't done Anka-3, or any of the projects I mentioned. Anka-3 is still on the ground and it won't be done once it flies either.

Do you know what a product pipeline is?

 

[uçuyorum]

Do you know what a product pipeline is?

Actually I should expand: a pipeline consists of several different stages during development of a new product. These stages require different resources. Pipelining is when you have multiple products and in parallel and you have different stages of products running in parallel so as to not have idle resources and speed up the process but also make sure they don't cannibalize resources of each other. That's why its important to think ahead. This approach is needed for efficirntly using resources.

 

[boredaf]

Do you know what a product pipeline is?

I know and understand what it is, I simply don't believe Tusas has the resources or the capability to handle so many projects at the same time without compromising and slowing them down. Imo, this is just Temel Kotil acting like "sütten ağzı yanan yoğurdu üfleyerek yermiş", as Tusas lost engineers before because they couldn't support them with projects. But this time in trying to prevent that he is going to the other extreme.