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Nilgiri

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The last thing I expected was an India-Canada diplomatic row.
In India, it seems to us that Trudeau is merely catering to his vote bank. If Indian agencies were given a greenlight to carry out a hit, I reckon it is more likely they would have targeted Dawood or Hafiz Saeed in Pak. Would be profoundly stupid to carry out a hit in a Western nation, that too a NATO member with already so much heat on India because of Russian oil.

Afif is correct that this could all really backfire on Trudeau if this is some loose stunt to votebank/pander upon given seriously bad polling numbers currently (dipping close to 30% support now nationally).

When Trudeau goes with "allegations to potential link" (i.e not evidence) and they overtly name a diplomat they are expelling (now putting him under a haze of threat for rest of his life since his name etc is now out there) without evidence presented, he better deliver the goods on all of this in the end commensurate to these actions.

It is already bad these actions were done in first place prior to actual evidence case file from RCMP etc. In fact its quite telling what was done in prior 3 months statements wise that suddenly changed after G20 meet now.

I don't put him down as that petulant or stupid (that large parts of Canadian society do view him as), so there is probably something that caused him to rush the gun like this (that opposition leader has already called out as something Trudeau didnt do with vast array of evidence regarding the Chinese interference stuff in comparison).

It just likely will be something tenuous in the end (otherwise why jump the gun if something solid was being built) and India will deny it and wait for next Canadian administration to rebuild ties.

That course of events gives just enough posturing for both establishment sides to indulge for while and move on from....though the damage to relations will stick for some time that will have effect on regular people which has clumsily not been factored in by liberals in this rush to announce "allegations to potential link" and the expelling method they elected for.

He is saying things like "doesn't seek to escalate with India" since etc. too (after noticing muted response from other western countries).

This can't finish what you started + jumping the gun is part of his spoiled brat daddy-name character that lot of my Canadian friends keep bringing up with me for quite some time now....and is large part of his heavy unpopularity in the electorate. All part of the approach he is taking here.

BTW you should watch this when you have a chance if you have not already (and also read the national post article I posted earlier):

 

Jackdaws

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Yeah, but there is also a big risk for Trudeau too. If can’t present sufficient evidence it will back fire on him.
He has chosen his words carefully. Plausible deniability. @Nilgiri @Afif see the deshbhakt (Akash Bannerjee) video on this. I can't post it here since it's in Hindi
 

DAVEBLOGGINS

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It is a forum and this is a heated issue....so the anger and tension is to be expected sometimes.

I will keep a closer eye on things to make sure this thread proceeds under the rules of the forum.

I can only intervene if rules are broken (I edited out ad-hominem directed your way)...and I will keep an eye out (and appreciate any members pointing out such things to help me).

You are always welcome here to contribute your opinion Dave.

It is a heated topic of course (even within the rules) as tempers are high. Little I can do about that (there are many such topics like it in the forum within the rules).
Agree totally Nilgiri!:)
 

suryakiran

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@Nilgiri lists are already being created in the MEA of people from Canada. Even if the Conservatives come back to power in Canada, you will see these lists being implemented and visas being denied.
 

Afif

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India-Canada row: Justin Trudeau repeats allegation against India amid row​


1695405630660.png


Canadian PM Justin Trudeau has reiterated that there are "credible reasons" to believe that Indian agents may have been behind the murder of a Sikh separatist on Canadian soil.
He first made the allegation on Monday, which India has strongly rejected, calling them "absurd".
Hardeep Singh Nijjar - who India designated a terrorist in 2020 - was shot dead outside a temple in June.
Tensions between the two countries have flared after the allegation.
The Indian government has often reacted sharply to demands by Sikh separatists in Western countries for Khalistan, or a separate Sikh homeland.

Though India designated Nijjar a terrorist, his supporters reject the claim, saying he was a peaceful activist who backed the demand for a separate homeland for Sikhs.

Mr Trudeau's accusation has fuelled an ugly diplomatic row between India and Canada, two countries that have historically shared close ties and good trade relations.

Both countries have expelled a diplomat each of the other nation and on Thursday, India suspended visa services for Canadians.

Meanwhile, Canada has reduced its personnel in India saying some diplomats had received threats on social media.

On Thursday, Mr Trudeau spoke to reporters in New York at the sidelines of the UN General Assembly and repeated some of his earlier claims.
"As I said on Monday, there are credible reasons to believe that agents of the government of India were involved in the killing of a Canadian on Canadian soil," he said and added that by doing so, the country is standing up for the "rules based international order that we believe in".

When asked by a reporter to characterise "how extensive and solid" the evidence was, Mr Trudeau didn't give a direct answer but said that Canada had a "rigorous and independent justice system" and "we allow those justice processes to unfold themselves with the utmost integrity".

He also said that the decision to share these allegation was not done lightly but with "the utmost seriousness".
When asked if Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had confirmed or denied these allegations, Mr Trudeau said he had had a "direct and frank conversation" with Mr Modi "in which I shared my concerns in no uncertain terms".
Mr Trudeau visited India earlier this month for the G20 summit during which he had a tense meeting with Mr Modi.
India had then issued a sharp statement saying that it had "strong concerns about continuing anti-India activities of extremist elements in Canada" who it accused of "promoting secessionism and inciting violence against Indian diplomats".
Mr Trudeau said Canada would always defend "freedom of expression" while acting against hatred.

1695405683107.png


Hours before Mr Trudeau spoke to the press on Thursday, Arindam Bagchi, a spokesperson for India's foreign ministry, told reporters that India had made it clear that "we are willing to look at any specific information that is provided to us. But so far we have not received any such specific information."

The UK, Australia and the US have expressed concern over Canada's allegations.
On Thursday, US National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan, said that the US was consulting closely with its Canadian counterparts and has been in touch with the Indian government as well.
"I firmly reject the idea that there is a wedge between the US and Canada. We have deep concerns about the allegations, and we would like to see this investigation carried forward and the perpetrators held to account," he said.






It is getting interesting. @Nilgiri @DAVEBLOGGINS @Jackdaws

Two thing I am gonna be following closely for upcoming months, BD's National election and this diplomatic stand-off between Canada and India.
How United states is able to handle them will tell lot about how much world has changed and balance of power has shifted to this so called emerging multiple poles in today’s geopolitical landscape. We shall know if US soft power is still decisive.

On another note, I know Contemporary US and India's strategic reaproachment to each other on the basis of my 'enemy's enemy is my friend' working out relatively well, but I am not convinced it will remain effective in the long run.

Let's be honest, despite both countries being democratic, India and USA are vastly different. And over time India will get stronger, both economically and militarily. When India's economy is $15 trillions/$20 trillions, there will be a time when both titans will fail to reach compromise on their conflicting interests. From a realpolitik perspective, i think it is bound to happen. Unlike 20th century great power competition, In a multi-polar world, geopolitical landscape would be inherently much more volatile.

Now for me the big question is, if India's policy Makers are cautious about this from the very beginning.
 
Last edited:

Jackdaws

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India-Canada row: Justin Trudeau repeats allegation against India amid row​


View attachment 61343

Canadian PM Justin Trudeau has reiterated that there are "credible reasons" to believe that Indian agents may have been behind the murder of a Sikh separatist on Canadian soil.
He first made the allegation on Monday, which India has strongly rejected, calling them "absurd".
Hardeep Singh Nijjar - who India designated a terrorist in 2020 - was shot dead outside a temple in June.
Tensions between the two countries have flared after the allegation.
The Indian government has often reacted sharply to demands by Sikh separatists in Western countries for Khalistan, or a separate Sikh homeland.

Though India designated Nijjar a terrorist, his supporters reject the claim, saying he was a peaceful activist who backed the demand for a separate homeland for Sikhs.

Mr Trudeau's accusation has fuelled an ugly diplomatic row between India and Canada, two countries that have historically shared close ties and good trade relations.

Both countries have expelled a diplomat each of the other nation and on Thursday, India suspended visa services for Canadians.

Meanwhile, Canada has reduced its personnel in India saying some diplomats had received threats on social media.

On Thursday, Mr Trudeau spoke to reporters in New York at the sidelines of the UN General Assembly and repeated some of his earlier claims.
"As I said on Monday, there are credible reasons to believe that agents of the government of India were involved in the killing of a Canadian on Canadian soil," he said and added that by doing so, the country is standing up for the "rules based international order that we believe in".

When asked by a reporter to characterise "how extensive and solid" the evidence was, Mr Trudeau didn't give a direct answer but said that Canada had a "rigorous and independent justice system" and "we allow those justice processes to unfold themselves with the utmost integrity".

He also said that the decision to share these allegation was not done lightly but with "the utmost seriousness".
When asked if Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had confirmed or denied these allegations, Mr Trudeau said he had had a "direct and frank conversation" with Mr Modi "in which I shared my concerns in no uncertain terms".
Mr Trudeau visited India earlier this month for the G20 summit during which he had a tense meeting with Mr Modi.
India had then issued a sharp statement saying that it had "strong concerns about continuing anti-India activities of extremist elements in Canada" who it accused of "promoting secessionism and inciting violence against Indian diplomats".
Mr Trudeau said Canada would always defend "freedom of expression" while acting against hatred.

View attachment 61344

Hours before Mr Trudeau spoke to the press on Thursday, Arindam Bagchi, a spokesperson for India's foreign ministry, told reporters that India had made it clear that "we are willing to look at any specific information that is provided to us. But so far we have not received any such specific information."

The UK, Australia and the US have expressed concern over Canada's allegations.
On Thursday, US National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan, said that the US was consulting closely with its Canadian counterparts and has been in touch with the Indian government as well.
"I firmly reject the idea that there is a wedge between the US and Canada. We have deep concerns about the allegations, and we would like to see this investigation carried forward and the perpetrators held to account," he said.






It is getting interesting. @Nilgiri @DAVEBLOGGINS @Jackdaws

Two thing I am gonna be following closely for upcoming months, BD's National election and this diplomatic stand-off between Canada and India.
How United states is able to handle them will tell lot about how much world has changed and balance of power has shifted to this so called emerging multiple poles in today’s geopolitical landscape. We shall know if US soft power is still decisive.

On another note, I know Contemporary US and India's strategic reaproachment to each other on the basis of my 'enemy's enemy is my friend' working out relatively well, but I am not convinced it will remain effective in the long run.

Let's be honest, despite both countries being democratic, India and USA are vastly different. And over time India will get stronger, both economically and militarily. When India's economy is $15 trillions/$20 trillions, there will be a time when both titans will fail to reach compromise on their conflicting interests. From a realpolitik perspective, i think it is bound to happen. Unlike 20th century great power competition, In a multi-polar world, geopolitical landscape would be inherently much more volatile.

Now for me the big question is, if India's policy Makers are cautious about this from the very beginning.
India has always been reluctant to be in any camp as such and it's alliance with the West works strategically as a win-win. If interests collide, both sides will not be averse to charting their own course while still maintaining a strategic alliance in areas where interests overlap - like dealing with China.

Regarding Canada - yea. It's getting interesting. Too many smokes and mirrors right now.
 

Nilgiri

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Good update on how things stand so far from the overall Indian perspective:

 

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