TR Navy Naval Programs

[Saithan]

So it’s still he same. We need cost effective solutions that scares our opponents.

I still believe that we should have more Ada class corvettes with multirole functions. Think ahead, we could refurbish them and sell or donate them to friendly countries later on as capable vessels. With 16 vls or Short range AD they could funtion as drone killers. If our Frigates are going to be AAW and ASW types our Ada could become more versatile in the support role. We just need to build enough of them. And as it was pointed out our Navy is slightly smalle compared to pur Mavi Vatan Doctrin.

 

[UkroTurk]

TCG ANADOLU could be converted mother ship of unmanned subs, USV etc. This mission is better than landing task.

I am also thinking about cargo planes carrying ASW USV. Imagine such a Naval rapid strike force.

In one hour 4 cargo planes drop USVs far from our shores.

 

[Oublious]

 

[dBSPL]

TCG ANADOLU could be converted mother ship of unmanned subs, USV etc. This mission is better than landing task.

View attachment 61724
I am also thinking about cargo planes carrying ASW USV. Imagine such a Naval rapid strike force.

In my humble opinion, rather than TCG Anadolu, we should work on a drone carrier concept equipped with firepower and electronic systems equivalent to a multirole frigate with a displacement range of 6-9k and capable of performing forward patrol on risky zones, and 3-4 units should be construct over this new class.

 

[No Name]

So it’s still he same. We need cost effective solutions that scares our opponents.

I still believe that we should have more Ada class corvettes with multirole functions. Think ahead, we could refurbish them and sell or donate them to friendly countries later on as capable vessels. With 16 vls or Short range AD they could funtion as drone killers. If our Frigates are going to be AAW and ASW types our Ada could become more versatile in the support role. We just need to build enough of them. And as it was pointed out our Navy is slightly smalle compared to pur Mavi Vatan Doctrin.

If you want numbers and to be cost-effective then rather than an Ada class corvette which costs $250 million per ship you are better off going with MDUSV like Sea Hunter as it costs $35.5 million.

That way you get a much larger size fleet, which can have its own advantage, not to mention crew means no risk of casualties in case one is lost in battle.

 

[boredaf]

In my humble opinion, rather than TCG Anadolu, we should work on a drone carrier concept equipped with firepower and electronic systems equivalent to a multirole frigate with a displacement range of 6-9k and capable of performing forward patrol on risky zones, and 3-4 units should be construct over this new class.

By drones do you mean UAVs or USVs? While I agree, a new class of mothership for USVs make sense, I don't think we can make something else for UAVs, other than maybe also building Trakya and specializing it further for UAVs.

 

[dBSPL]

By drones do you mean UAVs or USVs? While I agree, a new class of mothership for USVs make sense, I don't think we can make something else for UAVs, other than maybe also building Trakya and specializing it further for UAVs.

I mean a frigate form ship, capable of tactical UAVs with some kind of rocket/catapult assisted take-off, meanwhile capable of carrying multiple USV. More precisely, a hybrid class, a warship that can deploy to hot zones without the need for escort, with less personnel and lower sustainment costs. I posted some concept drawings on the forum with my old account. I'll post them again if I can find them.

 

[boredaf]

I mean a frigate form ship, capable of tactical UAVs with some kind of rocket/catapult assisted take-off, meanwhile capable of carrying multiple USV. More precisely, a hybrid class, a warship that can deploy to hot zones without the need for escort, with less personnel and lower sustainment costs. I posted some concept drawings on the forum with my old account. I'll post them again if I can find them.

It would still require at least some runway to allow them to land though, which is why I think a hybrid would lose effectiveness in both sides of the isle. Unless we come up with a VTOL UAV that can also carry substantial payload, that would be amazing. Also, I'd love to see those concepts if you can find them.

And I think one thing we absolutely need to do in all of warships is putting launchers for Alpagut (if it is successful) or some similar loitering munition. It is twice as heavy as MAM-L and heavier than Umtas, it would be great against USV or other asymmetrical threats.

 

[Saithan]

If you want numbers and to be cost-effective then rather than an Ada class corvette which costs $250 million per ship you are better off going with MDUSV like Sea Hunter as it costs $35.5 million.

That way you get a much larger size fleet, which can have its own advantage, not to mention crew means no risk of casualties in case one is lost in battle.

In wartimes sure. But it’s necessary to have good old vessels with crews. Both for presence but also for diplomacy. People interacting with eachother maintaine bonds. Seafaring has been the best proof of these interactions good and bad.

 

[No Name]

In wartimes sure. But it’s necessary to have good old vessels with crews. Both for presence but also for diplomacy. People interacting with eachother maintaine bonds. Seafaring has been the best proof of these interactions good and bad.

I'm not saying to replace every ship in the navy, what I'm saying is to use MDUSV to enhance the number of ships. people here are complaining that Türkiye needs more ships, and the current destroyers are too expensive and too few in number.

the solution I brought up is a way for Türkiye to have its cake and eat it too.

 

[dBSPL]

It would still require at least some runway to allow them to land though, which is why I think a hybrid would lose effectiveness in both sides of the isle. Unless we come up with a VTOL UAV that can also carry substantial payload, that would be amazing. Also, I'd love to see those concepts if you can find them.

And I think one thing we absolutely need to do in all of warships is putting launchers for Alpagut (if it is successful) or some similar loitering munition. It is twice as heavy as MAM-L and heavier than Umtas, it would be great against USV or other asymmetrical threats.

I couldn't find all of them, but some of them I remember were concept works by Rachel Pawling, her works mostly not a bad idea at all.

https://twitter.com/R_P_one

In general, I tend towards hybrid designs. For example, the Absalon class, which is a kind of hybrid landing platform / multi-role frigate, is a design that I like very much. Dedicated platforms are of course much more ideal, but with limited resources and a mountainous list of pending requirements, I am in favor of keeping multi-role and modular flexible design philosophies in mind.


There is already a need for a task force for jet-powered strike UAVs, we can meet this with TCG anadolu or TCG Trakya as an advanced variant derived from it, but we can expand towards more multi-role and economical designs for tactical classes or perhaps UAVs that can take off and land with rocket-assisted take-off and capture mechanisms. For example, for the Hisar class, Batch-II can be created in a 20% enlarged form, and the planning of 2+8 can proceed as 2+4 Hisar-I and 2+2 Hisar-II OPV mothership.

 

[uçuyorum]

I think all these are too big and expensive for what they do. The thing with any platform that is going to be used as some form aircraft carrier the most valuable thing is surface area of the deck for more aircraft. You could instead go for a smaller destroyer with slightly larger hangar for 2-3 helicopters rather than 1 and a few usvs, a few launchers for loitering munitions, then you could have your actual flat top carriers be specialized and more effective for their primary duty plus you wouldn't have to deploy that excessive capability to every mission. Cost effectiveness is more relevant to me. Such large ships are also more useful for oceans and long endurance, higher sea states etc. And I mean what the hell is a stealth aircraft carrier

 

[boredaf]

I couldn't find all of them, but some of them I remember were concept works by Rachel Pawling, her works mostly not a bad idea at all.

https://twitter.com/R_P_one

In general, I tend towards hybrid designs. For example, the Absalon class, which is a kind of hybrid landing platform / multi-role frigate, is a design that I like very much. Dedicated platforms are of course much more ideal, but with limited resources and a mountainous list of pending requirements, I am in favor of keeping multi-role and modular flexible design philosophies in mind.


There is already a need for a task force for jet-powered strike UAVs, we can meet this with TCG anadolu or TCG Trakya as an advanced variant derived from it, but we can expand towards more multi-role and economical designs for tactical classes or perhaps UAVs that can take off and land with rocket-assisted take-off and capture mechanisms. For example, for the Hisar class, Batch-II can be created in a 20% enlarged form, and the planning of 2+8 can proceed as 2+4 Hisar-I and 2+2 Hisar-II OPV mothership.

We are at the opposite ends of this issue I understand why you want hybrid platforms and it makes sense, (in fact, it's usually what I do with cruisers in Hearts of Iron 4 when I play Turkey lol) but I believe our limited resources would be better spend in warships specialised in one area.

These designs have some ideas I really like though. Like side bays for USVs, and what I assume to be loitering munition launcher. I hope we'll see some more ideas from our Navy about all the USVs our firms keep designing/building.

 

[Anmdt]

NSSAF is named as GEMED officially by STM. Just a teaser of what the final framework will be capable of;

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1516435058747482114

Ship Combat Efficiency and Assessment Model - Framework, will enable simulation&analysis of decision-making mechanism for strategy-tactics development, assisting ship design and modernization processes.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712412588565246350

GEMED has been through acceptance tests and now in service. Will be used to assess survivability of ships and operational planning of current vessels for certain scenarios and missions. Also will be used for maturing design (components, weapon systems, sensors) for modernization and new buildings.

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712412588565246350

GEMED has been through acceptance tests and now in service. Will be used to assess survivability of ships and operational planning of current vessels for certain scenarios and missions. Also will be used for maturing design (components, weapon systems, sensors) for modernization and new buildings.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712407136985079967

Gonna guess this is just an random design/concept they threw in?

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712407136985079967

Gonna guess this is just an random design/concept they threw in?

Actually it is an OPV/Corvette they have been experimenting on through last 10 years and used this software to optimize it. Might have been offered for Hisar Class as well.

 

[Saithan]

Isn’t the Helideck smaller than usual, or is it the angle ?

 

[Anmdt]

Isn’t the Helideck smaller than usual, or is it the angle ?

It is only for UAVs but it gets larger by shrinking hangar. The design is/was being worked as highly modular.

 

[Anmdt]

News Release by STM

Acceptance tests have been completed for the Naval Warfare Effectiveness Analysis Model (GEMED) Project. The developed simulation system will strengthen the capability of the Turkish Naval Forces in the analysis and procurement phases of system and tactical development processes. The GEMED Model will increase the Turkish Navy's combat readiness level, allowing analysis of battle scenarios through batch runs in a virtual environment before actual field application.

Developing advanced technologies in the Turkish defence industry, STM Savunma Teknolojileri Mühendislik ve Ticaret A.Ş. continues to equip the Turkish Army with indigenous and innovative software systems. STM has successfully completed the acceptance tests of the Naval Warfare Effectiveness Analysis Model (GEMED).

Operations will first be experimented in virtual environment before actual field application

Commenting on the project, Özgür Güleryüz, General Manager of STM, reminded that STM has significant experience in the creation of simulation and decision support solutions.
“We are strengthening our Navy by producing modern, national platforms. In addition to that, we are developing software systems that will add intelligence to these platforms and supply decision support to their headquarters. As a simulation-based decision support solution, GEMED will allow our Naval Forces to evaluate the combat effectiveness of existing -or designed- military platforms and their applied -or proposed- tactics by providing scientific decision support . We have developed models of nearly 100 combat elements and their subsystems. These platform, sensor, weapon, and countermeasure models will allow effectiveness analyses for surface, underwater and air operations. Battle scenarios might be tested many times in a virtual environment before being actually applied in the field. GEMED will increase our Naval Forces’ combat readiness level”, Güleryüz said.

More than 40 different operations have been tested in GEMED Model

Developed by Turkish engineers, GEMED provides decision support for ship design/modernization, procurement and tactical development. More than 40 operations, in naval, air and underwater domain, have been ran and tested so far. The analysts can assign different tasks to relevant platform models and even create conditional plans. Through multiple runs, experimental design and multi-criteria decision-making techniques; different platform-system configurations and tactics might be inspected in varying environmental conditions.

Streamable

streamable.com

 

[boredaf]

As a simulation-based decision support solution, GEMED will allow our Naval Forces to evaluate the combat effectiveness of existing -or designed- military platforms and their applied -or proposed- tactics by providing scientific decision support

Is there a chance that this might change the design of our upcoming ships in any way? It sounds like a very interesting and useful tool.