India UAV Programs

[Zapper]

Navy doesn’t seem to be interested in either rafale or f18. They were more interested in E2 hawkeye are still are

AWACS is a whole different ball game but they'd still need around 30 fighter jets for INS Vikrant. There's still a high possibility for the Rafale M's if IAF also opts for an additional 36 jets.

IAF could potentially go for additional Rafales if MWF gets significantly delayed

As per my knowledge only new lca’s or migs are going to compliment future air wings. Rafale has a chance if they could come up with folding wings but it’s high unlikely

IN already rejected N-LCA and there's no Naval version for the MWF yet. Also, they're keen on having a twin engine fighter which is what the TEDBF is about. Again, it's makes lil sense to develop a 4th gen platform like TEDBF from scratch where we'd be allotting significant time and resources wherein we could actually divert those resources and funds to AMCA and fastrack it's development

 

[kaykay]

Didn't India have a large range of UAVs?
Why are they leasing Predators?

Indian armed forces use IAI Searcher2 and Heron/Eitan drones in large numbers( 200-250) but here these SeaGuardian drone are selected coz they can also perform various naval operations including that of ASW etc. These drones are capable of deploying sonobuoys and receive data from those and various other tasks. A perfect complement to the P-8Is in IOR.

 

[Paro]

AWACS is a whole different ball game but they'd still need around 30 fighter jets for INS Vikrant. There's still a high possibility for the Rafale M's if IAF also opts for an additional 36 jets.

IAF could potentially go for additional Rafales if MWF gets significantly delayed

Post COVID I doubt they even have the budget to maintain the present airframes. I think MWF will take a fount seat now, IAF is looking and spending more into network centric warfare and with the new theater command structure it’s fair on their part to do so. My opinion.

 

[Zapper]

IAF is looking and spending more into network centric warfare and with the new theater command structure it’s fair on their part to do so

IAF realized the role of AWACS and EW centric capabilities post Balakot. While PAF has 10+ AWACS in active service with majority of em being the latest Saab Erieye 2000 which we have 4 AWACS with 7 times the land mass

One more DRDO Netra AWACS was supposed to be delivered but I guess DRDO requested to keep it as a test bed for future developments. IAF is supposed to procure 6 more Netra AWACS from DRDO but that deal is yet to be concluded and I don't expect IAF to ace the AWACS/EW game anytime soon

 

[Paro]

IAF realized the role of AWACS and EW centric capabilities post Balakot. While PAF has 10+ AWACS in active service with majority of em being the latest Saab Erieye 2000 which we have 4 AWACS with 7 times the land mass

One more DRDO Netra AWACS was supposed to be delivered but I guess DRDO requested to keep it as a test bed for future developments. IAF is supposed to procure 6 more Netra AWACS from DRDO but that deal is yet to be concluded and I don't expect IAF to ace the AWACS/EW game anytime soon

Radar coverage isnt really an issue. Its to do with geography, Same applies to indo sino front but for a different reason & different practical issue.

Try comparing the radar coverage on each side. Every jet taking off anywhere in pakistan is monitored 24/7. Even during balakot they were detected very early. India has a upper hand in number of ground radars anyway on the western front. They need way more on the chinese front.

Pakistan needs AWACS because they cant deploy as many numbers as india and even if they do deploy somehow they will be taken out with stand off weapons in the first days of the war. Secondly its to do with their airforce, their jf17s cant match the visible range to that of IAF. So they need AWACs to guide them to their vectors in the later days of the conflict while trying to keep their assets far away from the border due to geography.

 

[Jackdaws]

IAF realized the role of AWACS and EW centric capabilities post Balakot. While PAF has 10+ AWACS in active service with majority of em being the latest Saab Erieye 2000 which we have 4 AWACS with 7 times the land mass

One more DRDO Netra AWACS was supposed to be delivered but I guess DRDO requested to keep it as a test bed for future developments. IAF is supposed to procure 6 more Netra AWACS from DRDO but that deal is yet to be concluded and I don't expect IAF to ace the AWACS/EW game anytime soon

Are the DRDO Netras any good?

 

[Zapper]

Are the DRDO Netras any good?

No official sources but read in a few forums that they were pretty effective during Balakot. Indonesia also requested a systems demonstration for Netra AWACS last year.

Nevertheless, it's always a good sign to invest and induct indigenous systems to reduce foreign dependency and improve self-reliance

https://www.militer.or.id/1630/indonesia-gets-in-line-for-indias-new-aewc-jet/

 

[Jackdaws]

No official sources but read in a few forums that they were pretty effective during Balakot. Indonesia also requested a systems demonstration for Netra AWACS last year.

Nevertheless, it's always a good sign to invest and induct indigenous systems to reduce foreign dependency and improve self-reliance

https://www.militer.or.id/1630/indonesia-gets-in-line-for-indias-new-aewc-jet/

I agree. But I would prefer if firms like Mahindra, L&T and Tata are more involved than a firm run by Govt. bureaucrats.

 

[Zapper]

I agree. But I would prefer if firms like Mahindra, L&T and Tata are more involved than a firm run by Govt. bureaucrats.

It takes a while for them to develop AWACS tech from scratch even if they hire consultants and/or DRDO scientists. DRDO should head the research while all production contracts should be given to private Indian firms. For instance, Pinaka rockets were developed by DRDO but are now being produced by 5 private firms. The same with Tejas where most of the indigenous components have been outsourced while HAL acts as the lead integrator. The recent self arms embargo by MoD is a good move and this should considerably improve induction of indigenous platforms

 

[crixus]

IN is more interested in a medium sized twin engine fighter jet. The F-18 is significantly larger on the lines of an Su-30

The only reason F-18 will be the least bad choice because of the easiness in the integration of different sensors and better sensors (naval specific) on F-18 , incase they get growlers that will be a generation jump in jammers , future wars in Asia will be in IOR so F-18s will provide better coordination with other quad navies

 

[Zapper]

The only reason F-18 will be the least bad choice because of the easiness in the integration of different sensors and better sensors (naval specific) on F-18 , incase they get growlers that will be a generation jump in jammers , future wars in Asia will be in IOR so F-18s will provide better coordination with other quad navies

While Growlers and Super Hornets are great birds which will multiply the capabilities of IN, it doesn't make a lot of sense unless they're procured in significant numbers i.e., all near future IN's fighter jet acquisitions for INS Vikrant (30+) and possible IAC-3 INS Viraat (54) should be Super Hornets with active support from the Growlers.

IAC-3 has been put on hold due to cash crunch and IN isn't actively scouting for a fighter jet currently. Recent reports like F-18's ski jump for IN's next carrier and other such news have always popped up since they're paid media. Even if IN goes for F-18s, the entire negotiation process along with signing of the deal would take a ton of time and we could only expect our first jet in 7-10yrs which makes little to no sense since major military powers would start phasing out 4th gen and start inducting 5th gen fighters.

I believe IN will go for additional Mig-29s until TEDBF or AMCA becomes a reality

 

[crixus]

While Growlers and Super Hornets are great birds which will multiply the capabilities of IN, it doesn't make a lot of sense unless they're procured in significant numbers i.e., all future IN's fighter jet acquisitions for INS Vikrant (30+) and possible IAC-3 INS Viraat (54) should be Super Hornets with active support from the Growlers.

IAC-3 has been put on hold due to cash crunch and IN isn't actively scouting for a fighter jet currently. Recent reports like F-18's ski jump for IN's next carrier and other such news have always popped up since they're paid media. Even if IN goes for F-18s, the entire negotiation process along with signing of the deal would take a ton of time and we could only expect our first jet in 7-10yrs which makes little to no sense since major military powers would start phasing out 4th gen and start inducting 5th gen fighters.

I believe IN will go for additional Mig-29s until TEDBF or AMCA becomes a reality

The Russian weaponry is comparable with the Chinese so we need some technical edge to defend the superiority in IOR, Naval Rafales are great but too costly, and maybe we will have integration problems with American surveillance platforms, my only point is American platforms are refined platforms even if we get water down F-18 they will still be far better then anything Chinese have, 57 F 18s with some growler configuration will give enough breather to Navy to work on future indigenous fighters. Navy is really good in the procurement process if the F-18 meets the Naval requirements ( 2-3 years we will start getting them) then it will bring the strategic edge in IOR ......

 

[Zapper]

The Russian weaponry is comparable with the Chinese so we need some technical edge to defend the superiority in IOR

Agree but not unless we have considerable numbers. With the current economic situation, I doubt it'd be similar to IAF's Rafale numbers if we ever go ahead

Naval Rafales are great but too costly

If IAF goes for additional Rafales...maybe another batch of 36, IN could go for Rafale-M's and opt for local production

and maybe we will have integration problems with American surveillance platforms

Should be able to work with the French and Yanks to optimize integration even though it wouldn't be on par with F-18s. That's still a better option to maintain uniformity and commonality among our fleets instead of adding a whole new jet which requires new workshops, maintenance facilities, dealing with another country for spares, training etc. Also, we've seen how Turkey was kicked outta the F-35 project for procuring the S-400. If we ever go against American interests, particularly our weapons systems are primarily Russia including the upcoming S-400 and signing of CAATSA...there's a high possibility for the Yanks to stop our supplies

my only point is American platforms are refined platforms even if we get water down F-18 they will still be far better then anything Chinese have, 57 F 18s with some growler configuration will give enough breather to Navy to work on future indigenous fighters

Diverting funds to F-18s will significantly delay TEDBF and might even kill the whole project. Even if TEDBF sees light, that'll be another 15 years where 4th gen fighters will become obsolete. The current Mig29s should suffice for the foreseeable future. IN has been inducting indigenous naval platforms over the last two decades and that should set an example for the other two. If we keep inducting foreign weapons, our indigenous defence industry can never take off

Navy is really good in the procurement process if the F-18 meets the Naval requirements ( 2-3 years we will start getting them) then it will bring the strategic edge in IOR

IN is indeed the best when it comes to procurements but you're being way too optimistic with your timelines. There'd be political opposition and with MII/Atmanirbhar...GoI might want to include ToT & localized production which'll further complicate the procurement process

 

[Nilgiri]

The current Mig29s should suffice for the foreseeable future. IN has been inducting indigenous naval platforms over the last two decades and that should set an example for the other two. If we keep inducting foreign weapons, our indigenous defence industry can never take off

tbh, IN should have gone with Naval LCA to use alongside Mig-29K (given Mig 29 K problems in this high stress environment where it was kind of rammed into without same finesse you get in western platform).

This way Mig-29K can be less stressed and their service more comfortably drawn out (by using N-LCA to log hours and presence as needed) till we can develop and/or operationalize next gen options. Money savings can also go to higher bang for buck things like P-8, SSN program and shipyard expansion for example. LCA also would get much needed experience and deployment in different setting and environment to re-invest that experience into later platforms.

Instead navy is now stressing out Mig 29 K more than it ought to be (we just had one more crash recently) and looking for replacement that will be far more expensive than N-LCA (and money and direct experience is not recirculated internally into indian MIC either).

Indian military (even navy which is supposed to best out of the services on this) is nowhere near getting good return on investments it makes.

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335059506984747013

 

[Nilgiri]

 

[crixus]

L&T tactical UAV :

Features :

Tactical UAV​

L&T is developing an in-house Tactical UAV system to offer to the Indian Armed forces. Our design will have several advantages such as Automatic take-off / landing from standard runway at 10,500 ft. with full payload, will be built to STANAG 4671 standard and designed for Indian conditions.

System Description :

• 2 Aerial Vehicles
• Payload Suite
• Gimballed Electro-optic/Infrared (EO/IR) camera
• Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR)
• Electronic Warfare Support Measures (ESM)
• 1 Ground Control Station
• 1 Ground Data Terminal
• 2 Remote Video Terminals

Key Specifications :

• Max take-off weight - 700 kg
• Wingspan - 15 m
• Max. payload - 140 kg
• Max. endurance - 11 hours
• Maximum speed - 60 m/s (115 knots)
• Service ceiling - 7.6 km (25,000 feet)

L&T India | Larsen & Toubro

Larsen & Toubro is an Indian multinational engaged in EPC Projects, Hi-Tech Manufacturing and Services. It operates in over 50 countries worldwide.

www.lnt-defence.com

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348236187748675584

 

[Raptor]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1348236187748675584

Would this SWiFT contain electronics in its first flight in 2021?

 

[Zapper]

Would this SWiFT contain electronics in its first flight in 2021?

Initial flight tests will consist of Flight controls and other electronics to ensure all parameters are met during flight and to assess it's air worthiness. Other recon, surveillance and weapons related sub-systems would be integrated subsequently