TR Naval Programs

[uçuyorum]

Won't happen!

It is like did we build engines before building armored vehicles, tank??? Did we build ship engines, VLS before building frigates? Do we build naval aircraft before and aircraft carrier?

Some things are build when there is a demand, when there is a need. An aircraft carrier will act as an engine that produces needs. Sounds odd but things work like this, when an aircraft carrier needs a battle group it will be build, not the other way around.

And how did that work for us so far?
That's not how planning should work. We should think all aspects ahead of time. It has cost us many things, and may cost us a defeat

 

[Zafer]

Defending Turkish mainland we have land based platforms being made, so it is not necessary to rely on the Navy for coastal defence.

 

[UkroTurk]

Defending Turkish mainland we have land based platforms being made, so it is not necessary to rely on the Navy for coastal defence.

The Egean Sea consists of Islands, also Cyprus is an island. Need to chase them .So you couldn't just send land based ATMACAs over enemy warships. TN need frigates,MPACs etc. And what about Mavi Vatan which reaches to Libya? How to fight around Crite Island. Do you need land based ATMACA or FAC or frigate?

 

[Zafer]

The Egean Sea consists of Islands, also Cyprus is an island. Need to chase them .So you couldn't just send land based ATMACAs over enemy warships. TN need frigates,MPACs etc. And what about Mavi Vatan which reaches to Libya? How to fight around Crite Island. Do you need land based ATMACA or FAC or frigate?

That goes beyond coastal.
Thinking in the context of being able to reserve naval assets to join aircraft carrier groups the remaing assets will still be able to defend coastal waters.

As a nation that can equip its entire arned forces at 95% indigenous level which we expect to achieve in 5-6 years time it is ridiculous to think we can't do this. We can build as many systems as we need and we still return a profit as we can also export these systems. We can also expand our building capacity as we want as we have every means to do so.

 

[uçuyorum]

But how could we save MAVİ VATAN while our limited frigates would have to secure our Aircraft Carrier around the Africa or somewhere else?

Normally submarines and airforce

 

[CAN_TR]

CAFRAD was most likely only tested with ESSM so far we still need tests with HISAR-RF and long range SIPER missiles and i don't think that they will start with the construction before all weapons and subsystems were tested throughout, somehow i have the feeling that "I-class +" will be considered before TF-2000.

The 4 I-class which are under construction right now will replace the 4 Yavuz-class frigates, the additional 4 I-class from SSIK will likely replace 4 Gabya to be precise TCG Gökceada/Gelibolu/Gemlik/Giresun. The remaining Gabya's will either replaced by TF-2000 or "I-class +" depends on which one has priority...

 

[Anmdt]

CAFRAD was most likely only tested with ESSM so far we still need tests with HISAR-RF and long range SIPER missiles and i don't think that they will start with the construction before all weapons and subsystems were tested throughout, somehow i have the feeling that "I-class +" will be considered before TF-2000.

The 4 I-class which are under construction right now will replace the 4 Yavuz-class frigates, the additional 4 I-class from SSIK will likely replace 4 Gabya to be precise TCG Gökceada/Gelibolu/Gemlik/Giresun. The remaining Gabya's will either replaced by TF-2000 or "I-class +" depends on which one has priority...

I take a bit of exception to the argument that CAFRAD must be complete and tested before construction starts. In order to go through the detailed design phase, only a few inputs related to the radar systems are necessary. The rest of the job is fine tuning, and irrelevant to the platform itself. CAFRAD will be ready for integration by 2030-2031, followed by a few more years to mature on the platform. Construction will probably start, in 2026. If I remember correctly, in addition to the CFR/AYR modules, the UMR module was tested somewhere, somehow. Could be confusing with Cenk, EIRS as well.

In addition to all those, now we may expect a TF2000+.

 

[uçuyorum]

Everyone is talking about such long period for TF2000, i'm a bit surprised. If the shipbuilding starts later this year or early next year, at least the hull should take shape in a couple years, even if the actual delivery takes long, it shouldn't be 2030 until we have a physically built ship. The integration of systems may takr longer and I mean in that time Siper missiles and Çafrad would be ready many times over, we already have EIRS and ÇFAKR which share the same components with Çafrad. TF2000 is basically siper on a ship

 

[boredaf]

If the shipbuilding starts later this year or early next year

With what shipyards exactly? We are building 3 İstifs, plus 4 more will be built, on top of OPVs, possibly FACs pretty soon, landing ships as well apparently and we have export orders. There are probably few others I missed as well.

 

[Huelague]

it is not necessary to rely on the Navy for coastal defence.

Absolutely wrong.

 

[uçuyorum]

With what shipyards exactly? We are building 3 İstifs, plus 4 more will be built, on top of OPVs, possibly FACs pretty soon, landing ships as well apparently and we have export orders. There are probably few others I missed as well.

Istanbul Shipyard

 

[Zafer]

Absolutely wrong.

You should be able to say more than just a couple of words.

 

[Huelague]

With what shipyards exactly? We are building 3 İstifs, plus 4 more will be built, on top of OPVs, possibly FACs pretty soon, landing ships as well apparently and we have export orders. There are probably few others I missed as well.

We have enough shipyards.

 

[Huelague]

You should be able to say more than just a couple of words.

Turkiye as a peninsula with 8000 km coast, needs of course a Navy to defend themselves.

 

[boredaf]

We have enough shipyards.

Istanbul Shipyard

I refer you both to @Anmdt 's comment:

Now I wonder what the supposed 'improvisations' are that were once mentioned by the high ups. And what is even more surprising, we are talking about 12 warships and 8 auxiliaries and 7 FAC until 2030+, but the number of shipyards, well, a bit confusing.

4 I-class going to STM&TAIS + RMK

4 OPV to Pendik shipyard

4 OPVs from STM&TAIS (after current I-class)

Landing ships in ADIK (TAIS), but the schedule is tight. Might as well be Dearsan if not for the LSTs.

MCMW may go to Ada shipyard / Dearsan

FAC in Ares/Yonca, this is doable because the FAC workforce will be completely different and once the design is frozen they will be subcontractors.

Tell me how we could start building TF-2000 next year while also building almost 30 other ships until about 2030?

 

[Huelague]

I refer you both to @Anmdt 's comment:

Tell me how we could start building TF-2000 next year while also building almost 30 other ships until about 2030?

A few shipyards are left. Is Besiktas shipyard or Gemak able to build TF-2000? @Anmdt

 

[Kartal1]

A few shipyards are left. Is Besiktas shipyard or Gemak able to build TF-2000? @Anmdt

Next to the plain number of shipyards, personnel experience and expertise is needed to be able to build such a ship. I remember discussing this a lot.

 

[uçuyorum]

I expect TF2000 to be made by Istanbul Shipyard Command, they just wouldn't let anyone else. If anything is supposed to be offloaded to other shipyards those would be new OPV and Istif.

 

[Sanchez]

We'll always have the Haliç Shipyard as well

I expect TF2000 to be made by Istanbul Shipyard Command, they just wouldn't let anyone else. If anything is supposed to be offloaded to other shipyards those would be new OPV and Istif.

I'm expecting something similar to Istanbul batch 1 for TF2000 . First ship by navy, next by privates.

 

[Zafer]

Turkiye as a peninsula with 8000 km coast, needs of course a Navy to defend themselves.

A few messages later I had actually detailed what I meant, so there is of course a point to having a navy but we can afford to send some of our fleet to ascort aircraft carriers surely.