TR Navy Naval Programs

[B_A]

Unless a navy is run by 2-digit IQ commanders, AOR - combatants would be in natural balance, whereas amphibious and submarine forces should be excluded from this because they are part of the specific doctrines (Hence your example of Indonesia). Spanish Navy lacks a submarine force but has solid combatant, AOR and amphibious fleets.

Will Iranian Navy become the 7th Navy next year if They add 2 more Makran-class tankers and calls them FOB? If they add 2 more later, would they beat India in the list?

How is this any different from Global firepower that has counted every vehicle as '1' unit and then put countries in order based on this.

Navy tonnage still had some meaning.( something like Makran-class tankers arent in most of top navies)

That s not like the ship number,which north korean had many mini ship.

 

[B_A]

The UK Navy is considering the possibility of divesting or early retirement of one of the Albion-class LPDs after HMS Ocean due to personnel and sustainment issues.

Many European navies are facing similar problems. There are personnel problems, and most navies have not developed doctrinal approaches appropriate to the post-cold war era, and therefore have inventory structures that are difficult to adapt to today's conditions. Below tier 1, medium-sized navies have also a terrible combat readiness problem.

Meanwhile, the Turkish navy is conducting simultaneous exercises in three seas with a +100-piece fleet, and is slowly sharing its platform plans for the next 30 years with the public.

France has a special position due to its naval policies and political interests, and we cannot ignore ambitious modernization plans like Italy. Of course, there are many naval projects that we follow with interest. However, the situation is that the economies of these countries do not have the huge gap against potential competitors in their spheres of influence as they did 30 years ago, and they have been slow to renew their strategies and planning in line with the changing world conditions. On top of all this, there is an aging population and human resource problems.

The world is in a period of change. In fact, it is certain that this will be one of the major nodes in the history of the world we are living in, which happens every few hundred years. It will not be limited to the transfer of assets, but will be characterized by the transfer of power, and this process will create new military powers, countries that seemed insignificant just a few decades ago will become important actors of the new era with the leverage of geopolitics.

I think Turkiye is like the Prussian of 1850s,we need to have enough wise to avoid any direct war with great powers(US EU and China)

 

[Anmdt]

Navy tonnage still had some meaning.( something like Makran-class tankers arent in most of top navies)

That s not like the ship number,which north korean had many mini ship.

Please do enlighten me how Makran adds any capability that most top navies do not have or how having 3 of Makran multiplies this capability, i am waiting.

 

[dBSPL]

I think Turkiye is like the Prussian of 1850s,we need to have enough wise to avoid any direct war with great powers(US EU and China)

I think we should not evaluate naval assets only in war scenarios. Navies serve much greater purposes. War is an outcome when diplomatic efforts no longer works, and getting to that point does not happen with the efforts of just one side. In any case, as the mass grows, its deterrence increases and prevents you from losing the ground and make the diplomacy table harder to break.

 

[B_A]

Please do enlighten me how Makran adds any capability that most top navies do not have or how having 3 of Makran multiplies this capability, i am waiting.

You dont understand my word.

I said that most of top 10 Navies in the world didnt have something like Makran(which is useless)So the Navy tonnage still had some meaning.

We can just ignore the iranian(and North Korean)

 

[Anmdt]

You dont understand my word.

I said that most of top 10 Navies in the world didnt have something like Makran(which is useless)So the Navy tonnage still had some meaning.

We can just ignore the iranian(and North Korean)

Rules apply to anyone, and in 2025 Iranian Navy will be 7th. Combined with IRGC may well be 6th or 5th.

 

[B_A]

Please do enlighten me how Makran adds any capability that most top navies do not have or how having 3 of Makran multiplies this capability, i am waiting.

Yes so we cant do something like the German done.We need a Navy to protect our right but not a super navy to make the Super naval powers feel threat.We should let Chinese do it.

 

[Nutuk]

Please don't take it personal. We are not saying "Before AC , first we should build 100 frigates then 20 destroyers then time for AC like PLAN"

Please don't take it personal. We are not saying "Before AC , first we should build 100 frigates then 20 destroyers then time for AC like PLAN"

Won't happen!

It is like did we build engines before building armored vehicles, tank??? Did we build ship engines, VLS before building frigates? Do we build naval aircraft before and aircraft carrier?

Some things are build when there is a demand, when there is a need. An aircraft carrier will act as an engine that produces needs. Sounds odd but things work like this, when an aircraft carrier needs a battle group it will be build, not the other way around.

 

[uçuyorum]

Won't happen!

It is like did we build engines before building armored vehicles, tank??? Did we build ship engines, VLS before building frigates? Do we build naval aircraft before and aircraft carrier?

Some things are build when there is a demand, when there is a need. An aircraft carrier will act as an engine that produces needs. Sounds odd but things work like this, when an aircraft carrier needs a battle group it will be build, not the other way around.

And how did that work for us so far?
That's not how planning should work. We should think all aspects ahead of time. It has cost us many things, and may cost us a defeat

 

[Zafer]

Defending Turkish mainland we have land based platforms being made, so it is not necessary to rely on the Navy for coastal defence.

 

[UkroTurk]

Defending Turkish mainland we have land based platforms being made, so it is not necessary to rely on the Navy for coastal defence.

The Egean Sea consists of Islands, also Cyprus is an island. Need to chase them .So you couldn't just send land based ATMACAs over enemy warships. TN need frigates,MPACs etc. And what about Mavi Vatan which reaches to Libya? How to fight around Crite Island. Do you need land based ATMACA or FAC or frigate?

 

[Zafer]

The Egean Sea consists of Islands, also Cyprus is an island. Need to chase them .So you couldn't just send land based ATMACAs over enemy warships. TN need frigates,MPACs etc. And what about Mavi Vatan which reaches to Libya? How to fight around Crite Island. Do you need land based ATMACA or FAC or frigate?

That goes beyond coastal.
Thinking in the context of being able to reserve naval assets to join aircraft carrier groups the remaing assets will still be able to defend coastal waters.

As a nation that can equip its entire arned forces at 95% indigenous level which we expect to achieve in 5-6 years time it is ridiculous to think we can't do this. We can build as many systems as we need and we still return a profit as we can also export these systems. We can also expand our building capacity as we want as we have every means to do so.

 

[uçuyorum]

But how could we save MAVİ VATAN while our limited frigates would have to secure our Aircraft Carrier around the Africa or somewhere else?

Normally submarines and airforce

 

[CAN_TR]

CAFRAD was most likely only tested with ESSM so far we still need tests with HISAR-RF and long range SIPER missiles and i don't think that they will start with the construction before all weapons and subsystems were tested throughout, somehow i have the feeling that "I-class +" will be considered before TF-2000.

The 4 I-class which are under construction right now will replace the 4 Yavuz-class frigates, the additional 4 I-class from SSIK will likely replace 4 Gabya to be precise TCG Gökceada/Gelibolu/Gemlik/Giresun. The remaining Gabya's will either replaced by TF-2000 or "I-class +" depends on which one has priority...

 

[Anmdt]

CAFRAD was most likely only tested with ESSM so far we still need tests with HISAR-RF and long range SIPER missiles and i don't think that they will start with the construction before all weapons and subsystems were tested throughout, somehow i have the feeling that "I-class +" will be considered before TF-2000.

The 4 I-class which are under construction right now will replace the 4 Yavuz-class frigates, the additional 4 I-class from SSIK will likely replace 4 Gabya to be precise TCG Gökceada/Gelibolu/Gemlik/Giresun. The remaining Gabya's will either replaced by TF-2000 or "I-class +" depends on which one has priority...

I take a bit of exception to the argument that CAFRAD must be complete and tested before construction starts. In order to go through the detailed design phase, only a few inputs related to the radar systems are necessary. The rest of the job is fine tuning, and irrelevant to the platform itself. CAFRAD will be ready for integration by 2030-2031, followed by a few more years to mature on the platform. Construction will probably start, in 2026. If I remember correctly, in addition to the CFR/AYR modules, the UMR module was tested somewhere, somehow. Could be confusing with Cenk, EIRS as well.

In addition to all those, now we may expect a TF2000+.

 

[uçuyorum]

Everyone is talking about such long period for TF2000, i'm a bit surprised. If the shipbuilding starts later this year or early next year, at least the hull should take shape in a couple years, even if the actual delivery takes long, it shouldn't be 2030 until we have a physically built ship. The integration of systems may takr longer and I mean in that time Siper missiles and Çafrad would be ready many times over, we already have EIRS and ÇFAKR which share the same components with Çafrad. TF2000 is basically siper on a ship

 

[boredaf]

If the shipbuilding starts later this year or early next year

With what shipyards exactly? We are building 3 İstifs, plus 4 more will be built, on top of OPVs, possibly FACs pretty soon, landing ships as well apparently and we have export orders. There are probably few others I missed as well.

 

[Huelague]

it is not necessary to rely on the Navy for coastal defence.

Absolutely wrong.

 

[uçuyorum]

With what shipyards exactly? We are building 3 İstifs, plus 4 more will be built, on top of OPVs, possibly FACs pretty soon, landing ships as well apparently and we have export orders. There are probably few others I missed as well.

Istanbul Shipyard

 

[Zafer]

Absolutely wrong.

You should be able to say more than just a couple of words.