TR Air Forces|News & Discussion

[uçuyorum]

The most positive aspect of this purchase to me is that at least we can compare murad to APG83 and analyze the detection of KAAN by it.

 

[TheInsider]

The most positive aspect of this purchase to me is that at least we can compare murad to APG83 and analyze the detection of KAAN by it.

True, but if MURAD can perform as well as half of the lab performance it will be better than SABR.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

SABR is the best F-16 can get until MURAD becomes available but it is not the latest AESA technology.

I didn't say SABR is the latest AESA tech in radars but It is certain that it is the latest of its generation F16's best variant can use and this make it the last gen for F16s a customer can purchase. That's what I meant

 

[Cabatli_TR]

That‘s an optimistic outlook if everything goes fine according to plans.

The bleak reality right now is: TurAF has zero active fighter jet with AESA radar and BVR missiles. While Greece already operates 12 Rafale F3R with AESA and Meteor AAM and 10 F-16V with AESA and AMRAAM.

Murad AESA radar although installed on 1 Akinci and 1 Özgür F-16 (?) is still in test phase and not in serial production for the foreseeable future afaik.

Yes, optimistic but It is still an option. We will wait and see the direction.

 

[Ryder]

Every weapon system the USA and EU sells will always come with strings attached.

Turkiye will have to find stop gap solutions while upping its domestic built to 100% full power.

This cant go on for long. USA basically pissing on Turkiye. But wait the day when Turkiye can piss on them but it will take decades.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Alternatives ? I told before .

1- Upgrade ourselfs all f16 fighter jets
2- Speed up Kaan 5gen fighter and its engine
3- build large number of CENK & TAYFUN
-Do u think even if we buy f16 will Usa bring them tomorrow? at least not before 2027 while we build Kaan in 2028
And we need alot of money to build our weapons , Frigates , Mildens, drones , SAMs etc etc

I recently saw an interview with Temel Kotil on YouTube.
He said that nothing can be accelerated, new knowledge comes with research, there is no button you press and it comes by itself, it is hard work that costs a lot of time and money.

From the realization of the research of a material to the real test material to test and improve its properties.
It takes time and money to get to the first pre-series product, which is then subjected to a test run over several months or years.
Then comes the test from the government to get approval at all through certificates & co, also over several months & years.
Only then does series production take place, e.g. in the exterior material of an aircraft in the form of composite material or alloys with other materials.
You can't speed things up, either you hire foreign engineers who can speed things up with the risk of espionage or you continue with what you have in terms of human resources.

Now transfer my example to every product in our armed forces that is currently in prototype status.
Let it be engines, thrusters, radar absorbing material, AESA radar, software or ammunition.
These can be totally banal things like a screw that has to withstand extremely strong temperature fluctuations for a short time without the material expanding and contracting again, as is the case with heat and cold, for example.

 

[UcanTost]

so does anyone have a summary regarding this deal? did anyone have an opinion besides, "we got fucking buttfucked dry in the anus" ?

 

[Nutuk]

Turkiye should buy more upgrade kits and cancel buying new F16's, their delivery time is just not worth it. Buy maybe some AA missiles and keep the cost at minimum

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Turkiye should buy more upgrade kits and cancel buying new F16's, their delivery time is just not worth it. Buy maybe some AA missiles and keep the cost at minimum

LM is trying to speed up its production rate in late 2025 to produce 4 F-16s per month. If that is the case Turkiye would receive the first F-16 by 2027. If the decision was mine I would go for 40 F15-EX to replace the older F-4 with almost the same pricetag as the block 72.

 

[boredaf]

LM is trying to speed up its production rate in late 2025 to produce 4 F-16s per month. If that is the case Turkiye would receive the first F-16 by 2027. If the decision was mine I would go for 40 F15-EX to replace the older F-4 with almost the same pricetag as the block 72.

LM inspected Tusaş facilities last year and given that Tusaş is produced the most number of F-16s outside the US, there is a very good chance that we are going to build our own F-16s an will build them for others, which will turn into more funds for Tusaş. It'd be really shocking if we didn't, as it would harm LM as much as us, their production lines are pretty tied up and they might miss out on orders because of that.

 

[TheInsider]

LM is trying to speed up its production rate in late 2025 to produce 4 F-16s per month. If that is the case Turkiye would receive the first F-16 by 2027. If the decision was mine I would go for 40 F15-EX to replace the older F-4 with almost the same pricetag as the block 72.

F-15EX is a no go from the US side.

 

[TheInsider]

BTW I don't understand this deal. Why didn't we ask to integrate our own weapons and pods into F-16Vs? We should have brought this into the negotiations. This deal makes zero sense and logic.

 

[Nutuk]

Simply go full rate on Ozgur upgrade, Turkiye has the TAI and Tomtas facilities. Upgrade them in record time to Ozgur blk II level

 

[boredaf]

Simply go full rate on Ozgur upgrade, Turkiye has the TAI and Tomtas facilities. Upgrade them in record time to Ozgur blk II level

How do you know we can do it any faster than we are doing it at the moment?

 

[Nutuk]

To build new F16's we need to free up production lines, get production line setups from LM etc. etc. (not worth the investment while we are fully going for Hurjet and Kaan)

The Tomtas facilities can be fully reserved for upgrades, buy 80 upgrade kits for viper upgrade and pump out Ozgur blk II upgraded F16's.

With the money they gonna waste on new F16's we can put a whole new modern plant and upgrade in high speed

 

[TheInsider]

I didn't say SABR is the latest AESA tech in radars but It is certain that it is the latest of its generation F16's best variant can use and this make it the last gen for F16s a customer can purchase. That's what I meant

Understood.

I want to say, in general, any AESA radar that doesn't have GaN modules is not the latest and greatest. GaN adds a generational performance uplift. This is proven both scientifically and with on-field performance experience.
We shouldn't fly with anything less than AESA in 2030 and aim to field at least half of the fleet with GaN AESA.

 

[uçuyorum]

Greek F-35s will cause a lot of headaches.
Buying the S-400 has to be the dumbest foreign policy decision ever. We gave the USA a reason to kick us out of the program on a golden platter. I cannot imagine how hard the Greek and Israeli lobbies in Washington laughed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1751182132813177321

This stupidity will go down in the history books.

We collectively deserved this mockery for our unrelenting stupidity. Need to get our shit togheter quickly.

I should probably quit following defense news for a while for my own mental well being.

 

[TheInsider]

BTW I don't understand this deal. Why didn't we ask to integrate our own weapons and pods into F-16Vs? We should have brought this into the negotiations. This deal makes zero sense and logic.

Oh we should have also asked the cancellation of CAATSA sanctions.

 

[YeşilVatan]

We should have asked for a full Syria withdrawal or F-35 just to begin negotiations. Such an opportunity comes once every 50 years.

Emeği geçenlerin yatacak yeri yok.

 

[Sanchez]

D-3 is only for domestic use afaik. C-3 is its export variant.

C8 still lacks the two way datalink and much greater range, no? There are at least 4 120D users outside of US, important US allies like UK, Norway, Canada and Australia. I'm interested to see if the future Greek package will include D.