Bangladesh Casual Discussion Chill Bangladesh

[Sanchez]

The evil has fled! People have won their freedom in a epic liberation struggle. Let's go Bangladesh!

@Kartal1 @TR_123456 @Sanchez @Yasar_TR @Nilgiri and just about everyone.

holy shit, can't believe it worked. RIP to martyrs.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820402148586254709

 

[Afif]

And if

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820402148586254709

Bangladesh has no single founding father in the true sense. He had his contribution. But after independence he turned into evil dictator. Which ended tragically for him.

 

[Ryder]

She actually fled like a coward lmaoooo

Ill never forget how Hasina was praised by Western governments and feminists despite her being a corrupt despot.

I hope Bangladesh becomes sensible I hope secularists and islamists dont go at each other. I hope they weed out every extremist or radical regardless of their political views or ideology.

Just please avoid any kind of civil war bullshit. Its not worth it.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820434418726490312

 

[Ryder]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1820434418726490312

Make Bangladesh Great Again.

January 6 Time, take back our country

 

[Afif]

Bangladeshi youth (gen Z) has proven that it had the courage and strength to stand against pure evil. Police and BAL thugs were shooting to kill indiscriminately against our students and peoples. Killing hundreds, (thosuand?) but they stood their ground. They knew the cost of freedom and they paid in full blood.

The most defining thing about this revolutionary protest is that it was led by students and won by students. Hassina regime always looked so strong and unbeatable. They jailed and killed all their opposition to extinction. So much so that main opposition couldn't even effectively organize any meaningful portest for years. People would disappear in the middle of the night or arrested for posting on internet. There was no political freedom or freedom of speech. And Hassina's thugs will almost always get away with anything. It was full tyranny. Nobody even knew the organizers of this protest before. They are young students (25-27 age) with no previous traditional political background. Yet they achieved what many seasoned leaders in the politics couldn't. They toppled the evil regime.

Unlike other countries, Student's protest has a different meaning in Bangladesh.
For you guys who don't know, in 1971 liberation war Pakistan army's very first operation was at Dhaka university, killing hundreds of students and teachers. They knew who were the biggest challenge to them. You can beat down any other opposition or political party in Bangladesh. But you can't win against our students. Dictator Ershad couldn't, neither did evil Hassina.

And one thing is important to note, our army is civilized enough not to do mass shooting at our own people. Ershad told them to shoot the students in 1990, they refused. Hassina definitely wanted them also this time, but they didn't. I guess you can't say that about many other Muslims countries. We saw how it is in Egypt Pakistan or gulf countries. God forbid if our army was anything like that, today you would have heard news of large scale massacre by now.

It would be ungrateful of me not to talk about our girls. They were fierce and equally brave, they stood shoulder to shoulder with their fellow classmates. BD has never witness such higher degree of women participation in nation protest.

For the first time in my life I am hopeful for my country's future. It is an incredible feeling. Not enough words to express it. All my life I only knew tyranny and mass corruption. But this time I am hopeful. This time we will build a democratic and free country. Like it was supposed to be.


@TR_123456 @Rooxbar @Sanchez @Kartal1 @Bogeyman @Ryder @Saithan et al.

 

[TR_123456]

Bangladeshi youth (gen Z) has proven that it had the courage and strength to stand against pure evil. Police and BAL thugs were shooting to kill indiscriminately against our students and peoples. Killing hundreds, (thosuand?) but they stood their ground. They knew the cost of freedom and they paid in full blood.

The most defining thing about this revolutionary protest is that it was led by students and won by students. Hassina regime always looked so strong and unbeatable. They jailed and killed all their opposition to extinction. So much so that main opposition couldn't even effectively organize any meaningful portest for years. People would disappear in the middle of the night or arrested for posting on internet. There was no political freedom or freedom of speech. And Hassina's thugs will almost always get away with anything. It was full tyranny. Nobody even knew the organizers of this protest before. They are young students (25-27 age) with no previous traditional political background. Yet they achieved what many seasoned leaders in the politics couldn't. They toppled the evil regime.

Unlike other countries, Student's protest has a different meaning in Bangladesh.
For you guys who don't know, in 1971 liberation war Pakistan army's very first operation was at Dhaka university, killing hundreds of students and teachers. They knew who were the biggest challenge to them. You can beat down any other opposition or political party in Bangladesh. But you can't win against our students. Dictator Ershad couldn't, neither did evil Hassina.

And one thing is important to note, our army is civilized enough not to do mass shooting at our own people. Ershad told them to shoot the students in 1990, they refused. Hassina definitely wanted them also this time, but they didn't. I guess you can't say that about many other Muslims countries. We saw how it is in Egypt Pakistan or gulf countries. God forbid if our army was anything like that, today you would have heard news of large scale massacre by now.

It would be ungrateful of me not to talk about our girls. They were fierce and equally brave, they stood shoulder to shoulder with their fellow classmates. BD has never witness such higher degree of women participation in nation protest.

For the first time in my life I am hopeful for my country's future. It is an incredible feeling. Not enough words to express it. All my life I only knew tyranny and mass corruption. But this time I am hopeful. This time we will build a democratic and free country. Like it was supposed to be.


@TR_123456 @Rooxbar @Sanchez @Kartal1 @Bogeyman @Ryder @Saithan et al.

Did those thugs leave with her or did you catch some of them?

 

[Afif]

Did those thugs leave with her or did you catch some of them?

At lower level many of them likely didn't get the chance to leave. However Hassina and her cabinet, many of the illegal MPs has fled.

 

[Afif]

Alright, now we are in little bit trouble. Fucking commissioner left his car inside our apartment's building garage before he fled. (He was well known thug) and now hundreds of people has gathered with large sticks and hammers to break his car.

Unfortunately there is no police tonight, I am not sure if BGB could send in forces. My mother is getting scared.

 

[Rooxbar]

Alright, now we are in little bit trouble. Fucking commissioner left his car inside our apartment's building garage before he fled. (He was well known thug) and now hundreds of people has gathered with large sticks and hammers to break his car.

Unfortunately there is no police tonight, I am not sure if BGB could send in forces. My mother is getting scared.

Stay safe! But more importantly (ok I'm joking), why didn't the army crush the protests? Don't they have any control over SOEs in disguise or something?

 

[TR_123456]

Because over 1 million people were marching inside capital tpday. Only way to stop them was to use heavy firepower. Which army refused to do, obviously.



Nope. And in the end people from all background joined the students in waves. Bangladesh is a huge country.

He is asking because in most muslim countries(Pakistan and most if not all Arab countries) this is the way to go.
The exception is my country and now yours too.

 

[Afif]

Oops, sorry @Rooxbar . I didn't read that part.

(ok I'm joking)

 

[Rooxbar]

Oops, sorry @Rooxbar . I didn't read that part.

No but genuinely I'm very interested in revolutions and mass movements and conditions that help them work or fail.

Have there been like constant protesting for the past years or was this quite a sudden thing? Sorry, but I have not been following news that much recently, so I ask because only if the army and the police get caught off-guard, they would let 1 million people gather like that; otherwise they would have plans to not let the different groups from different routes congregate, and disperse them beforehand, even before they can create a crowd by heavy presence from early hours and blocking of gatherings of multiple people, a sort of implicit martial law. So that way you don't need to resort to heavy fire later against a million people; heavy armed forces presence in the streets is a huge preventive force which also crushes morale and many decide against protesting after going out to do so.

Also what's the plan now? is it just a change of admin and elections or do the students want to change the system?

 

[Afif]

No but genuinely I'm very interested in revolutions and mass movements and conditions that help them work or fail.

Have there been like constant protesting for the past years or was this quite a sudden thing? Sorry, but I have not been following news that much recently, so I ask because only if the army and the police get caught off-guard, they would let 1 million people gather like that; otherwise they would have plans to not let the different groups from different routes congregate, and disperse them beforehand, even before they can create a crowd by heavy presence from early hours and blocking of gatherings of multiple people, a sort of implicit martial law. So that way you don't need to resort to heavy fire later against a million people; heavy armed forces presence in the streets is a huge preventive force which also crushes morale and many decide against protesting after going out to do so.

Also what's the plan now? is it just a change of admin and elections or do the students want to change the system?

Sorry, this deserves a detailed answer. I will come back to you later. I still hasn't got the chance to listen to the President's speech. Important thing are happening right now as we speak. He just dissolved the Perliament.

 

[Afif]

President's speech. (in Bangla)

*Dissolving the Perliament.

*Immediate Release of all arrested protesters and political prisoners.

*Immediate Release of BNP chairperson Khaleda zia. (Main opposition leader, former democratically elected prime minister)

*Promising justice for the martyrs.

*Promising compensation for families of the martyrs.

*Promising formation of interim government within days.

 

[Nilgiri]

The evil has fled! People have won their freedom in a epic liberation struggle. Let's go Bangladesh!

@Kartal1 @TR_123456 @Sanchez @Yasar_TR @Nilgiri and just about everyone.

Mixed feelings.

SHW time to go was clearly overdue. Every problem is not a nail for her to flex the same hammer on....but she has long gone into a shell o ultra-defensive mode pscyhologically and deploy easiest levers at reach rather than work each issue in its proper context and in proper tiers first to resolve (and earn better credibility from BD people in win win way as well - something lost to her in her "family, political tribe first" complex).

Even with that in mind, its ridiculous looking back now her response strategy in the space of time from original high court ruling (pro-quota) to the one month or so later when the supreme court overruled the lower court and brought the quota to nominal single % like it was before (after the last flare up in 2018? regd it when SHW and/or court first brought it down to that new low level from earlier inertia of 30% or 40% whatever it was ever since liberation war conclusion and downstream it turning into a front for typical big BAL nepotism scam etc). Earlier in her tenure she was lot more tactful in comparison, things had frayed in this late stage by accumulation of all kind of missed opportunities though it must be said.....and the whole propaganda spiel to plaster over it each time.

BD friend of mine cleared up to me (I was unsure) that she did communicate the SC would rule against it and to wait for their ruling etc. But the deployment of chetona, chatra league goons and then police and some say units of army too to hammer the protestors (given large avenue of other ways to defuse far more reasonably) that way during that month was incompetent and like you say evil.

Then the blood spilled left its consequence that could not be made right for the protestors (who increased their demands wanting ministers responsible for the police brutality to resign and SHW to apologise - pretty reasonable if you ask me) and SHW buckled down even more in defensive mode as the ego dictated to her internally a long time.

Then both sides went all in regd this latest round and ultimately the BD army sensed the pendulum had shifted sufficiently to make its machiavellian move from its half in- half out testing water stance in the earlier bloodbaths.....and changed the terms of the working arrangement worked out with SHW/BAL ever since the BDR mutiny in 2009.

In annals of history the crucial details will never be resolved and held accountable to degree required to pass judgement on BD army role here. It has long been the case regd 1971 to begin with,...the partials vs the complicits, what are the definitive conclusions versus the greyness regd the BD army "new formative re-org" and its uneasiness in SMR tenunre, its role in SMR assassination, army role during Ziaur's tenure, Ziaur's own assassination, junta greyness, Ershad tenure and then post Ershad era when elections were commenced again to bring in the contours of the current arc and again the BD army role w.r.t "working arrangements" each tenure in all that too as state of comprehensive institutional heft and civilian oversight of it....is again partial and a grey area in the end.

I empathise somewhat with your transient joy on this. But I know it will be transient one as you are an intelligent astute and keen one, esp for your age IMO....and you will see and judge whatever comes in the months and years ahead to judge and analyse.

The deep problem is the deep political dysfunction of Bangladesh....that makes these things transient....as far too many things that should be solid in its core....are tenuous and deeply unresolved.

Sad because the bulk of BD people that like any other people in the world largely are transactional with politics (rather than being deeply ideological about it to some nutty degree)....and deserve a lot better. But these are the circumstances baked in....there is no clear way, there is no manna drop out of the political dysfunction that produces the characters like SHW and all the equivalents in other large power centers of BD.

 

[Nilgiri]

They did not fire live rounds on people like police and BAL thugs.

Are we sure about that? This is grey area, I will have to gather an analyse all the footage (whatever surfaced past the blackouts/curfews etc) and what people are shouting etc later, or some observers hopefully will.

Army had certainly made up its mind (in this latest round) once it realised the pendulum had shifted in the raw size of the movement. But its earlier participation, that remains to be analysed IMO. Guess I will wait and see/deep dive later in year about it.

Unforunately w.r.t BD, these things get very murky in general. The army has a signficant role in the power dispensation at all times since 1971 (well before it too, when it was the previous setup).

 

[Nilgiri]

And if

Bangladesh has no single founding father in the true sense. He had his contribution. But after independence he turned into evil dictator. Which ended tragically for him.

That is not proper summary. You know better. Evil?

Look there is reason folks like "Bengal71" have always had SMR as their DP....and there are massive threads about his life analysed in old PDF archives.

There is a reason Joe got upset earlier in day about seeing this too. He told me only 3 - 4 generations later "as always" they'll figure out what they have done.

SMR had his flaws, BAKSAL decision definitely was a big one.

But during the crunch issue of 71....before, during and after he played the cards he got pretty much the best way they could be. It was important.

Overall nothing that deserved the way he died and his whole family wiped out except the 2 daughters. Just like Ziaur also did not deserve the end he got.

Those attacking and pulling down his statues represent something pretty foul in BD. BD best resolve it as rush of blood/anger to head and see it off. Its larger people are wise and cognisant enough about SMR role in their country I feel.

If not and these things stick, you are starting new phases of something you do not want to entrench. I can tell you that right now.

 

[Nilgiri]

The pressing point now is one of law and order during interim govt/regime.

There is huge loss of trust in the police given the last few months.

Mob violence is increasing in spots, is there supposed to be some kind of martial law or will police be used anyway and "forget things for a while"? etc

Rest of 2024 for BD will involve lot of these things in end. The costs of various kinds too from getting it wrong or insufficient.