TR Navy Turkish Navy|News & Discussions

[zio]

High subsonic missiles fly at approximately 300 m/sn so superrapid fires 2 ammo per second its not logical to me but 40/70 mm double barrel makes 10 ammo per second,more logic.We made 40mm but nobody cares it,what a pity.

 

[Sanchez]

It is another question if MKE can manage the supply chain and catch up with the building schedule of 7 I-Class and 8 ADKG, and future planned 7 TTHB until 2030, plus the exports.

For some reason, I really doubt it. Really hope the gun is not what delays the deliveries in the future, huge possible bottleneck.

To add, we don't know if the navy is interested in the 76mm gun for CIWS duty, just that it would be great to have it as option. But it won't be an option unless MKE builds an SR equivalent or Aselsan works on 76mm ATOM rounds.

 

[Afif]

For some reason, I really doubt it. Really hope the gun is not what delays the deliveries in the future, huge possible bottleneck.

To add, we don't know if the navy is interested in the 76mm gun for CIWS duty, just that it would be great to have it as option. But it won't be an option unless MKE builds an SR equivalent or Aselsan works on 76mm ATOM rounds.

I don't think merely 76 ATOM is going to be enough. it has to be maneuverable.

 

[Strong AI]

or Aselsan works on 76mm ATOM rounds.

2021 MKE

"As you know, we are producing ATOM ammunition together with our distinguished company ASELSAN. In this context, we are developing particle and smart ammunition for 76/62mm."

MKEK’nin 2023 Vizyonunda Hedef 76mm’den Sonra 127mm Deniz Topu’nu da Millileştirmek!

İstanbul Fuar Merkezinde ikincisi düzenlenen SAHA EXPO 2021 Savunma Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayi Fuarında görüşme fırsatı bulduğumuz MKEK Genel Müdürü Yasin AKDERE, halen kalifikasyon süreci devam eden 76/62mm Deniz Topu projesi ve MKE’nin yerli ve milli olarak geliştirmeyi hedeflediği 127mm Deniz...

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[TheInsider]

MKE can produce enough 76mm guns, so it is not a bottleneck. MKE heavy gun/barrel production facility has enough capacity to build more than enough 76mm guns. The rest of the system is outsourced.

Production capacity as of 2018.
60 guns for Fırtına SPH
200 120mm mortar
1000 60&80mm mortars
250 guns for Boran Howitzer

 

[Sanchez]

2021 MKE

"As you know, we are producing ATOM ammunition together with our distinguished company ASELSAN. In this context, we are developing particle and smart ammunition for 76/62mm."

MKEK’nin 2023 Vizyonunda Hedef 76mm’den Sonra 127mm Deniz Topu’nu da Millileştirmek!

İstanbul Fuar Merkezinde ikincisi düzenlenen SAHA EXPO 2021 Savunma Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayi Fuarında görüşme fırsatı bulduğumuz MKEK Genel Müdürü Yasin AKDERE, halen kalifikasyon süreci devam eden 76/62mm Deniz Topu projesi ve MKE’nin yerli ve milli olarak geliştirmeyi hedeflediği 127mm Deniz...

www.defenceturkey.com

3 years passed, where is it?

MKE can produce enough 76mm guns, so it is not a bottleneck. MKE heavy cannon/barrel production facility has enough capacity to build more than enough 76mm guns. The rest of the system is outsourced.

Production capacity as of 2018.
60 guns for Fırtına SPH
200 120mm mortar
1000 60&80mm mortars
250 guns for Boran Howitzer

This is the same MKE that boasts with delivering 7 Borans a year so I'd prefer seeing them in real life first.

 

[Merzifonlu]

I don't know anything about marine systems. So I'll ask you to be tolerant with the question I'm going to ask now. Are periscopes still used in submarines?

 

[UkroTurk]

I don't know anything about marine systems. So I'll ask you to be tolerant with the question I'm going to ask now. Are periscopes still used in submarines?

I am also not an expert but i think periscopes are supposed to be .


Regarding 76mm smart ammunition for air defense, i would recall Göksur . I think we need mini autonomous and seperated VLS container for Göksur missiles. Multiple launches aren't better?

 

[TheInsider]

3 years passed, where is it?


This is the same MKE that boasts with delivering 7 Borans a year so I'd prefer seeing them in real life first.

Irrelevant. Boran is a niche product. It faced difficulties in the development phase but once it got military qualification (Land forces tested the shit out of that product) it is delivered and EXPORTED quickly. It was a difficult project for a company like MKE where every kg is important due to air-transportation and when you make it light recoil forces become a headache. There are not a lot of lightweight air-transportable howitzers around.
MKE has good production capacity. 35mm gun systems were never a bottleneck for the Korkut or air defense cannon project. TSK never had a problem for M60T or T-155 guns.

Once the 76mm naval gun system gets military qualification, MKE can produce them. MKE doesn't produce the servos, cooling system etc. Those might be a bottleneck. I don't know if producer companies has enough production capacity for outsourced systems.

 

[Quasar]

I don't know anything about marine systems. So I'll ask you to be tolerant with the question I'm going to ask now. Are periscopes still used in submarines?

View attachment 70234

https://dam.hensoldt.net/m/21b4ae3b45d1d8e3/original/SERO-420-and-OMS-150-English.pdf

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1827475145201532982

AND concerning the capsule of SUB ATMACA and GEZGİN

View attachment 70236 View attachment 70235

 

[boredaf]

Not to derail the discussion but I was trying to look at specs for Stamp-G and realised Aselsan just took all Stamp variants out of their Turkish website, they are still there in the English version. (but that one seems like it wasn't updated when the Turkish version was)

I can't help but wonder if it has anything to do with new fascination with Unirobotics or not.

 

[Sanchez]

Irrelevant. Boran is a niche product. It faced difficulties in the development phase but once it got military qualification (Land forces tested the shit out of that product) it is delivered and EXPORTED quickly. It was a difficult project for a company like MKE where every kg is important due to air-transportation and when you make it light recoil forces become a headache. There are not a lot of lightweight air-transportable howitzers around.
MKE has good production capacity. 35mm gun systems were never a bottleneck for the Korkut or air defense cannon project. TSK never had a problem for M60T or T-155 guns.

Once the 76mm naval gun system gets military qualification, MKE can produce them. MKE doesn't produce the servos, cooling system etc. Those might be a bottleneck. I don't know if producer companies has enough production capacity for outsourced systems.

Boran is not a niche product, it's a 105mm gun built to replace hundreds of 70 year old M101 and M116s in service. If anything, 76mm gun is the niche product that will maybe see 50-60 built during its production cycle discounting spare barrels, if we're lucky.

Boran was exported to Macedonia and Bangladesh, per claims by giving lines slated for KKK. Boran production is woefully slow. Per 2022 reports, Macedonia will get 6 Borans in 2 years and 12 more between 2029-2031.
"The first battery, each consisting of 6 BORAN Howitzers, is planned to be delivered to the Macedonian Army within 2 years, while the remaining 2 batteries are planned to be delivered to the Macedonian Army in 2029-2031."

Makedonya'dan BORAN Obüsü Siparişi | SavunmaSanayiST

Makedonya, Türkiye'ye 18 adet BORAN Obüsü siparişi verdi. Her birinde 6 adet obüs olan 3 batarya BORAN Obüsü, Makedonya Ordusu'na teslim edilecek.

www.savunmasanayist.com

In the original document signed in 2009, MKE was to deliver 104 Borans to army in 54 months or 4.5 years. That's 12 a year. We have more than 500 old mid caliber guns in service. Changing all of them(not currently planned or ordered) would take 20 years.
"For the 105mm Boran Howitzer Project, the Mechanical and Chemical Industry Corporation is developing the weapon system and Aselsan is developing the fire control system. According to the first contract, the contract period for the development of the howitzer was signed for 49 months, while the serial production phase of 106 105 mm howitzers was signed for 54 months."

Havadan Taşınabilir Obüs (BORAN) Projesi ve Özel Detaylar

Dağlık alanda ve arazide operasyonel birliklerin ihtiyacı olan yoğun ateş desteğinin düşmana görüntü vermeden sağlanması söz konusu olduğunda, akla ilk gelen düşük maliyetli silah sistemlerinin başında havadan taşınabilir hafif çekili obüsler gelmektedir. Soğuk savaşın sona ermesinden sonra...

www.defenceturk.net

Pretty normal to expect something similar for the 76mm gun and I will reserve my judgment whether MKE can deliver on time.

 

[Anmdt]

I don't think merely 76 ATOM is going to be enough. it has to be maneuverable.

It has to be maneuverable to reduce amount of rounds to engage a missile, allowing a single gun mount engage as many as possible threats. With the unguided rounds it is still possible but the possibility decreases dramatically. Programmable munition still yields as high possibility as a guided round with sufficient numbers are fired to create a pellet cloud.

 

[Anmdt]

Not to derail the discussion but I was trying to look at specs for Stamp-G and realised Aselsan just took all Stamp variants out of their Turkish website, they are still there in the English version. (but that one seems like it wasn't updated when the Turkish version was)

I can't help but wonder if it has anything to do with new fascination with Unirobotics or not.

Doubting if it has anything to do with unirobotics, stamp still takes its place on I-class and TF-2000. Unirobotics has failed big time and let all wait and see if it will go public. It was planned for ADKG but from this point on, i have got a feeling that stamp may take its place.

Fun fact; Unirobotics' mere strong hand was few high ups in ASFAT, all replaced by proper people with the change in power and care to check who is the GM of ASFAT nowadays. I will give a tip, he is from Aselsan.

 

[Anmdt]

3 years passed, where is it?


This is the same MKE that boasts with delivering 7 Borans a year so I'd prefer seeing them in real life first.

I think we bashed MKE sufficiently for the day, but before asking for a programmable 76mm, i would care to ask a classical, conventional 76mm round and another Sapomer-like ER round. Is MKE producing these in sufficient numbers, or capable of producing at the acceptable rates?

 

[boredaf]

Doubting if it has anything to do with unirobotics, stamp still takes its place on I-class and TF-2000. Unirobotics has failed big time and let all wait and see if it will go public. It was planned for ADKG but from this point on, i have got a feeling that stamp may take its place.

Fun fact; Unirobotics' mere strong hand was few high ups in ASFAT, all replaced by proper people with the change in power and care to check who is the GM of ASFAT nowadays. I will give a tip, he is from Aselsan.

Very happy to hear that is likely the case mate. I'd rather complain about how bad we are at properly creating and maintaining websites instead of using substandard products because of politics

I think we bashed MKE sufficiently for the day, but before asking for a programmable 76mm, i would care to ask a classical, conventional 76mm round and another Sapomer-like ER round. Is MKE producing these in sufficient numbers, or capable of producing at the acceptable rates?

You know, I just checked their website and the latest report I could find and neither of them mention munitions of any kind for the 76mm naval gun.

 

[Merzifonlu]

First of all, thanks for answer. I apologize again and ask a second question: Isn't going to periscope depth a dangerous action for submarines, as it increases the risk of being noticed? Because according to my estimates, this depth can be around 15 meters at most.

I think it is much safer for a submarine to send an observation drone with a fiber optic cable connection to the surface. With cable lengths of up to 10 km, the submarine does not have to approach the surface under any circumstances.

I think the periscope is an outdated addition in the 21st century.

 

[Quasar]

yours is a valid concern... yet not only ISR i.e Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance tasks but over all mission profile of a sub require situational awareness and sensor mix which may be beyond the capabilities of a observation drone with a fiber optic cable

However, Germans will have two optronic masts on their new submarines, one for extended capabilities and one for stealth ok more like a Ultra-low Profile Mast replacing the periscope. .. a combination of OSM150 and OMS300....definity something we should also try on MILDEN

 

[I_Love_F16]

What are the causes for MKE’s bad reputation ?

 

[UkroTurk]

First of all, thanks for answer. I apologize again and ask a second question: Isn't going to periscope depth a dangerous action for submarines, as it increases the risk of being noticed? Because according to my estimates, this depth can be around 15 meters at most.

I think it is much safer for a submarine to send an observation drone with a fiber optic cable connection to the surface. With cable lengths of up to 10 km, the submarine does not have to approach the surface under any circumstances.

I think the periscope is an outdated addition in the 21st century.

But the submarines can't go deep always on electric battery which has limited range, they must use diesel 70%of its mission.

Periscope depth secures and hides submarine while on diesel.
* Exception :nuclear subs.
@Anmdt