TR Propulsion Systems

[Zoth]

Only a few countries produce combat trainers. The American ones are clearly outdated. Nobody is interested in the Russian ones. Although the Italian ones are in favor today, it seems to me that the Hurjet will be bought like hot cakes

The main limitation with Hurjet is it's engine, you can't sell it to anyone outside of US allies, and there is no program or even any slight talk or hint about a domestic engine for Hurjet(at least not yet) so even if it has the possibility of selling like hot cakes, Turkey won't be able to sell it as hot cakes for the reason i mentioned.

Which is really weird, Hurjet is already finished and will become a mature program much sooner than Kaan, i wonder why they don't consider a domestic engine for it?

 

[Fairon]

The main limitation with Hurjet is it's engine, you can't sell it to anyone outside of US allies, and there is no program or even any slight talk or hint about a domestic engine for Hurjet(at least not yet) so even if it has the possibility of selling like hot cakes, Turkey won't be able to sell it as hot cakes for the reason i mentioned.

Which is really weird, Hurjet is already finished and will become a mature program much sooner than Kaan, i wonder why they don't consider a domestic engine for it?

Simply, we don't have the manpower and money for the Hurjet engine.

 

[Costin1984]

Simply, we don't have the manpower and money for the Hurjet engine.

That should raise questions about the KAAN engine,questions that most people outside Turkyie enthusiasts have already answered ,most people on this forum won't like the answer.....

 

[boredaf]

That should raise questions about the KAAN engine,questions that most people outside Turkyie enthusiasts have already answered ,most people on this forum won't like the answer.....

What answer? That we prioritised an engine for Kaan and put all available people with expertise and experience on that project?

 

[hugh]

That should raise questions about the KAAN engine,questions that most people outside Turkyie enthusiasts have already answered ,most people on this forum won't like the answer.....

Active TEI Turbine Engine Programs:

- TS1400(1400 shp turboshaft engine): in flight tests
- TF6000(6k lbf turbofan engine): on test bench
- TF35000(35k lbf thrust, 5th gen engine for KAAN): in preliminary design phase
- TS3000(3000shp turboshaft engine for T925 and T929 helicopters): newly initiated project

As you can see, we are already stretched thin. We can't afford to launch another major engine project.

 

[dBSPL]

Active TEI projects(turbine engines):

- TS1400(1400 shp turboshaft engine): in flight tests
- TF6000(6k lbf turbofan engine): being tested on bench
- TF35000(35k lbf thrust, 5th gen engine for KAAN): in preliminary design phase
- TS3000(3000shp turboshaft engine for T925 and T929 helicopters): newly initiated project

As you can see, we are already stretched thin. We can't afford to launch another major engine project.

++
Additionally, a turboprop is planned over the TS1400, and an afterburner variant for the TF-6000.

 

[Fairon]

That should raise questions about the KAAN engine,questions that most people outside Turkyie enthusiasts have already answered ,most people on this forum won't like the answer.....

Not exactly. Kaan engine is one of the projects that money and manpower is directed.

Besides Kaan engine, there is TF6000/10000, TS1400, TS3000(Maybe not this exact name but engine for 10t helicopter) and various small engines that in design process. There might be derivetives from this engines as well(Maybe a marine engine from TF6000 or turboprop based on TS1400)

So when I say we don't have manpower or the money for the Hurjet engine, I mean TEI's hands are already full with the ongoing projects.

 

[dBSPL]

Not exactly. Kaan engine is one of the projects that money and manpower is directed.

Besides Kaan engine, there is TF6000/10000, TS1400, TS3000(Maybe not this exact name but engine for 10t helicopter) and various small engines that in design process. There might be derivetives from this engines as well(Maybe a marine engine from TF6000 or turboprop based on TS1400)

So when I say we don't have manpower or the money for the Hurjet engine, I mean TEI's hands are already full with the ongoing projects.

How many countries in the world, other than China and the United States, have so many simultaneous aviation engine programs?

 

[hugh]

++
Additionally, a turboprop is planned over the TS1400, and an afterburner variant for the TF-6000.

Those are derivative engines. They're not trivial but they don't require a new core design, which is the bulk of the difficulty, imho.

Is turboprop version of TS1400 a certainty? Has TEI confirmed it?

 

[Fairon]

Those are derivative engines. They're not trivial but they don't require a new core design, which is the bulk of the difficulty, imho.

Is turboprop version of TS1400 a certainty? Has TEI confirmed it?

Not at the moment but couple of days ago there was a news that said Baykar showed interest. So it might happen if the news were true.

 

[somegoodusername]

That should raise questions about the KAAN engine,questions that most people outside Turkyie enthusiasts have already answered ,most people on this forum won't like the answer.....

There is no money or manpower available to develop an engine equivalent to the F-404 because Turkish Engine Industries is dedicating all its resources to the TF-35000. The second version of the Kaan will be produced with TF-35000 engines in first half of 2030's.

 

[Costin1984]

Dude comes from his reddit echo chamber and thinks he knows what's up. You better worry about your own Country @Costin1984

Actually no,I've been on defence related forums for almost half my adult life,which,obviously, doesn't make an expert.I did caution Turkish members in a now defunct forum that I can't see the Altay as a series manufactured tank, even back in 2014.I got the same violent response.
My opinion is mine alone,but I'm sticking to it,Turkiye doesn't have the expertise to serially manufacture a 4,let alone 5 generation, engine for the next 15 years,at least....

 

[hugh]

My opinion is mine alone,but I'm sticking to it,Turkiye doesn't have the expertise to serially manufacture a 4,let alone 5 generation, engine for the next 15 years,at least....

maybe you should shed a little light on it and come up with actual technical rationale?

 

[Costin1984]

maybe you should shed a little light on it and come up with actual technical rationale?

My rationale is,that if you couldn't develop a tank engine in 10-12 years ,a jet engine for a 5th generation fighter is obviously a bridge to far.
Alas, I'm just a forumer but,as I've said in the old Pakistani forum 10 years ago,hopefully we'll all be here in 10 years to have the same chat.
In no way do I think, or know the truth about it all.

 

[Strong AI]

I'm just a forumer

Thx for claryfying that, there is no need to prolong this discussion.

 

[somegoodusername]

Actually no,I've been on defence related forums for almost half my adult life,which,obviously, doesn't make an expert.I did caution Turkish members in a now defunct forum that I can't see the Altay as a series manufactured tank, even back in 2014.I got the same violent response.
My opinion is mine alone,but I'm sticking to it,Turkiye doesn't have the expertise to serially manufacture a 4,let alone 5 generation, engine for the next 15 years,at least....

Altay is a political failure. Kaan and TF-35000 is an engineering challenge. Both TAI and TEI has world class expertise. TAI was one of the most important suppliers of the F-35 project, TEI supplying advanced engine parts for other engines for decades now. If you fly regularly, you probably flew with an TEI produced engine part. Neither of them starts from 0.

 

[Costin1984]

Altay is a political failure. Kaan and TF-35000 is an engineering challenge. Both TAI and TEI has world class expertise. TAI was one of the most important suppliers of the F-35 project, TEI supplying advanced engine parts for other engines for decades now. If you fly regularly, you probably flew with an TEI produced engine part. Neither of them starts from 0.

I don't want to derail the thread with other examples,so,I wish you the best of luck.
From a geopolitical point of view,as a Romanian altough long living abroad, a strong Turkiye offers a good counterpoint to our current position, so....cheers!
To each his own opinion

 

[Zoth]

Altay is a political failure. Kaan and TF-35000 is an engineering challenge. Both TAI and TEI has world class expertise. TAI was one of the most important suppliers of the F-35 project, TEI supplying advanced engine parts for other engines for decades now. If you fly regularly, you probably flew with an TEI produced engine part. Neither of them starts from 0.

Just don't answer to him mate, he thinks he is being clever by using Altay as an example non stop, i would explain why he is wrong but i will not entertain a troll.

I wish a moderator deletes all this nonsensical off-topic argument.

He is under propulsion systems and compares jet engine development to Altay tank failure which was due to engine embargo from Germany, that's all i gotta say, he does it on purpose.

 

[boredaf]

"According to information obtained by Defence Turk, TEI-TF6000, which was operated for the first time during the year, has passed approximately 60 tests so far. It was stated that the new engines of TF6000, whose ground tests are ongoing, are also being produced, and that the afterburner part is also being worked on to turn it into TF10000. While the beginning of qualification tests on the TF6000 engine is expected to be in late 2028, it is planned to provide the engine with afterburner capability by 2026."

TF6000 motorunun testleri sürüyor

Havacılık motorlarında Türkiye’nin lider şirketi TEI, İstanbul Fuar Merkezi’nde düzenlenen SAHA EXPO 2024’te millî motorlarıyla yer aldı.

www.defenceturk.net

 

[Rooxbar]

Dude comes from his reddit echo chamber and thinks he knows what's up. You better worry about your own Country @Costin1984

I understand your sentiment but I think we'd want to be better so I think we'd be better off if we don't try to turn this place into an echo chamber of our own. When the west is going into a conformist culture (as evidenced by their public square, aka social media, being a collection of bubbles with an accepted orthodoxy and no tolerance for stepping out of the line created by it) we should try to steer our culture away from that which is possible through polite discourse and openness to questioning.