TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Anmdt]

SSB knows that they fcked up and they know that everyone knows that they fcked up. So why should they show videos frequently before serial production?

There is only one video from tests at TSK back then. Other videos are factory tests. No?

Other Altay videos from back then are minimum one year apart. So were the updates really frequently?

I can't exactly recall, man it has been more than 10 years, no? We grew old, all i can recall that we used to see some short clips from SSB back then. At least more frequently than we do now.

Yes all of the systems are being through the test and qualification once again but how long this supposed to last? Do we need to wait till 2030 for the first serial production tank to be in the service?

 

[Huelague]

Have you seen the evolution of tanks, from US, Germany, S.Korea and France?
I hope, our ones will not far behind that new tanks.

 

[Sanchez]

Have you seen the evolution of tanks, from US, Germany, S.Korea and France?
I hope, our ones will not far behind that new tanks.

I see all the fluff, but not much real stuff. There won't be hydrogen cell tanks, KF51 is a showpiece etc.

We talked about the same topic back in page 140. I don’t think there’s much to add to everyone’s points about it for now. You can add increased slat armor, jammers and more capable APS. It’s still the same MBT concept. Because an MBT is already a compromise on firepower, armor and speed. Move the sliders around as long as you wish. You’ll always need all those three to move forward behind enemy lines.

Altay can be updated and will be updated. But an Altay with high speed, good armor and good firepower will never be obsolete, as we are still using M48s.

Still the same thing. No scientific or tactical breakthrough happened to change the triangle in the last 6 months.

Even our M60T1s are still one of the most technologically advanced tanks in NATO at the moment. Altay is kept up to date.

 

[Huelague]

see all the fluff, but not much real stuff. There won't be hydrogen cell tanks, KF51 is a showpiece etc.

During war times, which we are in right now, things go very fast. And I am not talking about newbies.

 

[Merzifonlu]

During war times, which we are in right now, things go very fast. And I am not talking about newbies.

Hydrogen stuff is a hoax. Do not take that seriously.

 

[Ripley]

Guys we got a new thread about hydrogen where we all can discuss industrial and military applications of substance. Just saying

Hydrogen Energy

Hydrogen stuff is a hoax. Do not take that seriously. Why do you think that?

defencehub.live

EDIT by @Yasar_TR
And all posts related to this conversation has been moved to the new thread

 

[boredaf]

Date given for ALTAY Tank's domestic engine

ALTAY Tankının yerli motoru için tarih verildi | SavunmaSanayiST

BMC Savunma’nın Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Fuat Tosyalı, SAHA EXPO’da yaptığı açıklamada Altay Tankı'nın yerli motoru Batu için tarih verdi.

www.savunmasanayist.com

BMC Defense's Chairman of the Board of Directors, Fuat Tosyalı, gave a date for the ALTAY Tank's domestic engine, Batu, in his statement at SAHA EXPO.

Tosyalı said in his statement, “At the point we have reached today, we anticipate that the tests of the power group we developed will be completed around the end of 2026, the beginning of 2027. From that moment on, we will include our domestic power groups in the ongoing production process. This is not a situation that disrupts our production anyway.”

While domestic engine studies for ALTAY continue, field tests of engines supplied from South Korea continue.

 

[Hannibal]

Date given for ALTAY Tank's domestic engine

ALTAY Tankının yerli motoru için tarih verildi | SavunmaSanayiST

BMC Savunma’nın Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı Fuat Tosyalı, SAHA EXPO’da yaptığı açıklamada Altay Tankı'nın yerli motoru Batu için tarih verdi.

www.savunmasanayist.com

BMC Defense's Chairman of the Board of Directors, Fuat Tosyalı, gave a date for the ALTAY Tank's domestic engine, Batu, in his statement at SAHA EXPO.

Tosyalı said in his statement, “At the point we have reached today, we anticipate that the tests of the power group we developed will be completed around the end of 2026, the beginning of 2027. From that moment on, we will include our domestic power groups in the ongoing production process. This is not a situation that disrupts our production anyway.”

While domestic engine studies for ALTAY continue, field tests of engines supplied from South Korea continue.

Looks like Engines will be the Achilles' Heel for the Turkish defense industry, they said the second half of 2025, looks like something went wrong.
I think they have problems with manufacturing/mass production.

 

[boredaf]

Yaşar Güler announced the number of tanks: History for ALTAY

Yaşar Güler tank sayısını açıkladı: ALTAY için tarih | SavunmaSanayiST

Milli Savunma Bakanı Yaşar Güler, Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri envanterindeki tank sayısına değinerek ALTAY Tankı için planlanan teslimat tarihini paylaştı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Minister of National Defense Yaşar Güler shared the planned delivery date for the ALTAY Tank, referring to the number of tanks in the Turkish Armed Forces inventory.

In the statement made by Minister Yaşar Güler regarding the subject, the following statements were made: “We currently have over 3000 tanks. And by the end of this upcoming 2025, we will start receiving the ALTAY tank in serial production.

There are currently US and German-made tanks in the Turkish Armed Forces inventory. The two most modern tanks, the Leopard 2A4 and M60TM, are undergoing various modernization projects by the Turkish defense industry and their integration into the modern battlefield is being ensured.

While various modernization projects are also being carried out for the M60A3; Leopard 1 tanks are used for training and M48A5T2 tanks are used in rear service."

It is quite misleading (and embarrassing imo) to count M48s among our tanks at any capacity. Unless we put some artillery rockets or something on them to make them useable beyond the reach of enemy, they are tired old death traps.

 

[Ripley]

Yaşar Güler announced the number of tanks: History for ALTAY

Yaşar Güler tank sayısını açıkladı: ALTAY için tarih | SavunmaSanayiST

Milli Savunma Bakanı Yaşar Güler, Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri envanterindeki tank sayısına değinerek ALTAY Tankı için planlanan teslimat tarihini paylaştı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Minister of National Defense Yaşar Güler shared the planned delivery date for the ALTAY Tank, referring to the number of tanks in the Turkish Armed Forces inventory.

In the statement made by Minister Yaşar Güler regarding the subject, the following statements were made: “We currently have over 3000 tanks. And by the end of this upcoming 2025, we will start receiving the ALTAY tank in serial production.

There are currently US and German-made tanks in the Turkish Armed Forces inventory. The two most modern tanks, the Leopard 2A4 and M60TM, are undergoing various modernization projects by the Turkish defense industry and their integration into the modern battlefield is being ensured.

While various modernization projects are also being carried out for the M60A3; Leopard 1 tanks are used for training and M48A5T2 tanks are used in rear service."

It is quite misleading (and embarrassing imo) to count M48s among our tanks at any capacity. Unless we put some artillery rockets or something on them to make them useable beyond the reach of enemy, they are tired old death traps.

When I was young, a teenager actually, many moons ago (late 1980s I believe) I remember some M48s going through a modernization with the German assistance at 901st.
The 90mm main gun was replaced with 105mm together with some other things and even back then 120mm was already standard NATO main gun caliber. Despite the efforts it was still heap of scrap metal.
It even shouldn’t be considered reserve or mothballed.
Then there was this idea some entertained for a short while inspired by some German project back then by converting them to Forrest fire fighters. And this was 35 years ago.
God, those hulls must have been crumbling with rust by now.

 

[TheInsider]

This is a white elephant project. We will pay 15 million euros per piece for a tank that a few thousand-dollar FPV drone can destroy.

 

[Sanchez]

This is a white elephant project. We will pay 15 million euros per piece for a tank that a few thousand-dollar FPV drone can destroy.

How do the mechanized infantry columns advance without tanks?

 

[Yasar_TR]

This is a white elephant project. We will pay 15 million euros per piece for a tank that a few thousand-dollar FPV drone can destroy.

How do the mechanized infantry columns advance without tanks?

Both you guys are correct.
We are in the middle of a conundrum.

We need Tanks to advance in the battlefield. But the tanks are easily destroyed. And they cost a lot.

That means the overall battlefield tactics will have to be revised.

With the introduction of fire arms, in the battles of 19th century, columns of musketeers and soldiers would stand in lines firing at each other. Then WW1 brought trench wars. WW2 introduced tanks and mechanised infantry.

We are now seeing a need to change the way wars are conducted. The first military power that can adapt a new style of warfare will win.

Probably for the long term in the future, warfare is to be conducted by drones, unmanned fighting vehicles and unmanned sea vessels. In the end, without losing life, the side, that can deplete the opposition’s resources of fighting equipment first, will win.
This may sound far fetched. But the change is coming. We are at the precipice of the change. And we need to act quickly. We must take measures that the transformation of battlefield tactics are implemented by us first in a controlled manner without losing ground, like the aerial drone warfare we brought in to the battlefield tactics.

 

[Saithan]

Killing and destroying is the ultimate way of ensuring dominance, so I don't think it's going to be like you said. Dominion over unpopulated land is still control.

 

[Bmx98]

Both you guys are correct.
We are in the middle of a conundrum.

We need Tanks to advance in the battlefield. But the tanks are easily destroyed. And they cost a lot.

That means the overall battlefield tactics will have to be revised.

With the introduction of fire arms, in the battles of 19th century, columns of musketeers and soldiers would stand in lines firing at each other. Then WW1 brought trench wars. WW2 introduced tanks and mechanised infantry.

We are now seeing a need to change the way wars are conducted. The first military power that can adapt a new style of warfare will win.

Probably for the long term in the future, warfare is to be conducted by drones, unmanned fighting vehicles and unmanned sea vessels. In the end, without losing life, the side, that can deplete the opposition’s resources of fighting equipment first, will win.
This may sound far fetched. But the change is coming. We are at the precipice of the change. And we need to act quickly. We must take measures that the transformation of battlefield tactics are implemented by us first in a controlled manner without losing ground, like the aerial drone warfare we brought in to the battlefield tactics.

I'd like to add to the discussion by saying that I don't think a completely unmanned warfare is feasible even in the future. Humans have always been the sharpest and mist robust weapon and they will remain so however they will need much mire technological equipment assistance in the future to match enemies from developed nations armies. As for the tanks they will definitely develop further as in the current stage they have become a liability in many ways, I think also light vehicles will take the forefront in the future as they have become much more robust and capable especially ifv's and light mobility vehicles that's why I have always said in this forumn that Ömttza and ynhza are much more important than Altay project as well as 4x4 and artillery programs. Unfortunately TSK is still headed by oldheads who still see tanks as the mist important asset of a land army. I would like to teach them about the Slovenian war of liberation maybe that will get them through their heads that big army with old tanks is obsolet against modern missile and apc warfare.

 

[TheInsider]

Both you guys are correct.
We are in the middle of a conundrum.

We need Tanks to advance in the battlefield. But the tanks are easily destroyed. And they cost a lot.

That means the overall battlefield tactics will have to be revised.

With the introduction of fire arms, in the battles of 19th century, columns of musketeers and soldiers would stand in lines firing at each other. Then WW1 brought trench wars. WW2 introduced tanks and mechanised infantry.

We are now seeing a need to change the way wars are conducted. The first military power that can adapt a new style of warfare will win.

Probably for the long term in the future, warfare is to be conducted by drones, unmanned fighting vehicles and unmanned sea vessels. In the end, without losing life, the side, that can deplete the opposition’s resources of fighting equipment first, will win.
This may sound far fetched. But the change is coming. We are at the precipice of the change. And we need to act quickly. We must take measures that the transformation of battlefield tactics are implemented by us first in a controlled manner without losing ground, like the aerial drone warfare we brought in to the battlefield tactics.

I'm not saying the time of tanks is over or tanks are useless. This is the tank of 20th century. It is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Altay is the most expensive tank of the world if we take into account R&D side of the things.

 

[hugh]

I'm not saying the time of tanks is over or tanks are useless. This is the tank of 20th century. It is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Altay is the most expensive tank of the world if we take into account R&D side of the things.

Why is it so expensive?

 

[TheInsider]

Why is it so expensive?

It is delayed, in the meantime, SSB funded an engine and a factory but this is not it Turkish defense industry companies also spent huge money from their own coffers which should also be taken into account. For example, Aselsan spent a big amount of money on the next-gen tank's electronics. This is money spent upfront and Aselsan will slowly earn it back as the project progresses. Delays are a nightmare for the financial side of the project. Big delays are catastrophic.

 

[TheInsider]

The tank of the 21st century should weigh no more than 50 tons, be manned by at most 3 personnel, and have a completely unmanned turret, autoloader, and independent armor-protected sealed ammo containers. The tank should have a hybrid propulsion with a 1000hp engine acting as a generator. The tank should have a 360-degree situational awareness system which has AI-based image processing capability and IR-based missile warning capability. The tank should be able to get air picture from AIC/Mobile AIC or similar systems and weapon systems should be able to automatically turn to nearest air threat. The tank should have a 30mm low recoil autocannon with airburst munition capability with a range of at least 2km. 30mm cannon should have a wide elevation angle and fast reaction/response time and should be able to act as a CIWS for both drones and anti-tank missiles as well as anti-personnel role. The tank should be able to fire loitering drones, ATGM and IIR-guided MANPADS from the main gun. The tanks should be able to launch and recover small drones. Sensors of the APS should be able to detect small drones from at least 1km away and APS should have necessary modifications to be able to engage them. The price should be no more than 10 million euros per unit.

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Yaşar Güler announced the number of tanks: History for ALTAY

Yaşar Güler tank sayısını açıkladı: ALTAY için tarih | SavunmaSanayiST

Milli Savunma Bakanı Yaşar Güler, Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri envanterindeki tank sayısına değinerek ALTAY Tankı için planlanan teslimat tarihini paylaştı.

www.savunmasanayist.com

Minister of National Defense Yaşar Güler shared the planned delivery date for the ALTAY Tank, referring to the number of tanks in the Turkish Armed Forces inventory.

In the statement made by Minister Yaşar Güler regarding the subject, the following statements were made: “We currently have over 3000 tanks. And by the end of this upcoming 2025, we will start receiving the ALTAY tank in serial production.

There are currently US and German-made tanks in the Turkish Armed Forces inventory. The two most modern tanks, the Leopard 2A4 and M60TM, are undergoing various modernization projects by the Turkish defense industry and their integration into the modern battlefield is being ensured.

While various modernization projects are also being carried out for the M60A3; Leopard 1 tanks are used for training and M48A5T2 tanks are used in rear service."

It is quite misleading (and embarrassing imo) to count M48s among our tanks at any capacity. Unless we put some artillery rockets or something on them to make them useable beyond the reach of enemy, they are tired old death traps.

Accroding to Wikipedia and other sources Turkiye have Around
~ 2240 Tanks.
915-M60 (variants)
640-M 48
690‐ Leo 1/ 2