TR Defence Exports & Updates

[TR_123456]

"Gökhan Uçar, Vice President of SSB:
We are currently discussing a very big project with Spain. They want to participate in a very big project of ours.
Serbia also wants to participate in a very big project of ours.
The British want to work with us a lot."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1868942362120171636

These don't mean anything by itself, but the Spanish claim there is interesting. Could be the Hürjet, or the MUGEM? Hürjet is what directly comes to mind and we know from the Spanish sources they want to have a direct hand in it, at least putting in their own stuff if they are going to buy it, which would require participation into the project. Aircraft carrier is one other possibility and there are no claims for it exists but mine, but, they have been talking about a sibling to Juan Carlos I for more than a decade now. They were unable to fund it due to budgetary reasons in the past. A joint development would lower the cost of the program for us immensely.

What is their to participate in the Hürjet project,isnt it done already?
It is probably the AC.

 

[Sanchez]

What is their to participate in the Hürjet project,isnt it done already?
It is probably the AC.

Spanish have been talking about industrial cooperation for a while. If a sale happens, this can be as low as some Spanish subsystems in the Spanish version(other than what they already have) to as high as a joint production of the aircraft under a system where TAI still holds the IP.

News from Spain:

"Air Force prioritizes industrial returns in F-5 replacement: "The Hürjet is well positioned".

"The major objective is to buy an advanced trainer with a significant participation in the Spanish defense industry program, in line with the Defense Ministry's procurement policy. At this point, talks are currently underway with different candidates, among which the Hürjet of the Turkish firm TAI stands out. "We are going to acquire a trainer, but what returns do we have, at that point is the negotiation", explained the Chief of the Air Staff (JEMA), Air General Francisco Braco, in a meeting with journalists in Madrid.

The Ministry of Defense and the Air and Space Army, explained JEMA, do not want to acquire an aircraft through a "leasing" where there is a high dependence on the manufacturer for the maintenance or updating of components. "The goal is to have our own aircraft that we can touch," he stressed. The air general also reviewed some of the candidates including TAI's Hürjet, Korean KAI's T-50 and also Leonardo's M-346, but insisted that much of the discussion revolves around the aforementioned returns.

Regarding the Hürjet, the JEMA confirmed that the TAI company presented the aircraft to the Air and Space Army in Spain and that the possible purchase was also discussed in the margins of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's visit to Madrid in June this year."The Hürjet is well positioned, I don't deny it, but with conditions, and we are in those conditions right now," Braco concluded."

El Ejército del Aire prioriza los retornos industriales en la sustitución de los F-5: "El Hürjet está bien posicionado"

En este punto están en la actualidad las conversaciones con los distintos candidatos entre los que sobresale el Hürjet de la firma turca TAI.'Vamos a adquirir un entrenador, pero ¿qué retorn ...

www.infodefensa.com

Spain is interested in up to 55 aircraft to replace their old F-5 trainers, aggressor aircraft and those of their Acroteam Patrulla Aguilla, which operate 12 C-101s.

Hürjet's IP is owned by TAI, not the MoD. And HvKK still haven't ordered more aircraft, it stays at 16. It is possible that we might see a larger Spanish order beforehand. I think there is a chance for a partnership regarding Hürjet with the Spanish.

 

[dBSPL]

Of course, the hostile or obstructive attitude of our western 'partners', ignoring our security risks and, moreover, being direct protectors of terrorism against our country, has a great impact, but there is another secondary reason: one of the reasons why the technical capacity of the Turkish defense industry today exceeds the estimates of many western experts is that the political will has recognized the opportunities that this industrial field creates for Turkish diplomacy. It not only realized this, but also entered international competition with the right model. SSB's business model is not based on direct profit maximization, but on value creation that serves the shared good. In fact, this is our biggest strategic advantage in global competition. This business model also has the potential to serve more directly in aligning the interests of their states. Because the processes involve convergence based on interests, not exploitation. This understanding, complemented by a capable military's technical cooperation or security consultation, has led to a revival of Turkish diplomacy in many places where it had not been over century.

And within the NATO wing; What is not fully understood to this day is how valuable the existence of such an industrial ecosystem could be, especially in the context of the specific interests of continental Europe. Cooperation with the Turks is one of the only solution partners that can sustain the dream of a Europe that can stand on its own interests, independent of the US, and without being influenced by other potential hegemons. The value of this will be even more evident with Trump in the WH. It is a regional opportunity that Turkiye, despite all the unfriendly past , still wants a common security concept with Europe.

 

[RMZN]

What is their to participate in the Hürjet project,isnt it done already?
It is probably the AC.

Doesnt Spain seek domestic production and the option of future modification for the eventual winner of their Trainer Aircraft Tender?

 

[TR_123456]

Spanish have been talking about industrial cooperation for a while. If a sale happens, this can be as low as some Spanish subsystems in the Spanish version(other than what they already have) to as high as a joint production of the aircraft under a system where TAI still holds the IP.

The word ''participate'' makes me think it has nothing to do with Hürjet but we'll see.

 

[TR_123456]

Doesnt Spain seek domestic production and the option of future modification for the eventual winner of their Trainer Aircraft Tender?

Yes but thats not ''participate''(joining in on a projects or start a project togehter).
We'll see what they meant soon.

 

[2033]

"Gökhan Uçar, Vice President of SSB:
We are currently discussing a very big project with Spain. They want to participate in a very big project of ours.
Serbia also wants to participate in a very big project of ours.
The British want to work with us a lot."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1868942362120171636

These don't mean anything by itself, but the Spanish claim there is interesting. Could be the Hürjet, or the MUGEM? Hürjet is what directly comes to mind and we know from the Spanish sources they want to have a direct hand in it, at least putting in their own stuff if they are going to buy it, which would require participation into the project. Aircraft carrier is one other possibility and there are no claims for it exists but mine, but, they have been talking about a sibling to Juan Carlos I for more than a decade now. They were unable to fund it due to budgetary reasons in the past. A joint development would lower the cost of the program for us immensely.

Too much exaggeration.

We don't sell arms to the Serbs, the British are trying to sell the EF2000. The Spanish also want to be a partner in Hurjet.

 

[Sanchez]

Reportedly, we will export 2 AOR(Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment) ships to Portugal.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1868724779718791364

STM's teasing could be about this development

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1868326354724266283

@Anmdt @AlterUnd

And it's confirmed.

2 AORs will be built for Portuguese Navy. First high tonnage naval vessel export to a EU and NATO country. Both ships will be built by a private shipyard in Turkey, under STM. Ships will have 137 meter length at 11000 tonnes, capable for sailing for up to 90 days without replenishment and will carry a small deck for carrying up to 20 lightly armored vehicles. No details I can find on the cost of the program. Portuguese users on social media were quoting a projected program cost of 100 million euros, but that should be excluding the weapons like the Phalanx and such.

STM Portekiz Donanması’na 2 adet ikmal ve lojistik gemisi inşaa edecek – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

 

[Strong AI]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1869027617644351747

 

[Strong AI]

TAI and BAYKAR hear me out.

 

[hugh]

And it's confirmed.

2 AORs will be built for Portuguese Navy. First high tonnage naval vessel export to a EU and NATO country. Both ships will be built by a private shipyard in Turkey, under STM. Ships will have 137 meter length at 11000 tonnes, capable for sailing for up to 90 days without replenishment and will carry a small deck for carrying up to 20 lightly armored vehicles. No details I can find on the cost of the program. Portuguese users on social media were quoting a projected program cost of 100 million euros, but that should be excluding the weapons like the Phalanx and such.

View attachment 72718

STM Portekiz Donanması’na 2 adet ikmal ve lojistik gemisi inşaa edecek – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

11k tons displacement? TCG Derya stands at 26k tons. Which one is more typical? The former or the latter?

 

[Huelague]

What about Kaan, regarding Spain?

 

[Sanchez]

11k tons displacement? TCG Derya stands at 26k tons.

Derya is a beast, one of the largest in the NATO. Portuguese Navy is much smaller and don't have flattops to support. STM's similar PNS Moawin is 17k, while Yzb Güngör Durmuş Class ships come at 9k. Checking the specsheets, Durmuş Class carries a similar load of diesel and JP-5 to the Portuguese ships. To add, Portugal recently ordered a multifunction ship that will also act as a drone mothership from Damen. That ship is projected to be at 7k tons, so these two will still be the largest ships in their navy. Their old tanker they decommissioned few years ago was an old British RFA tanker.

This design should be similar to STM's current offer, but miniaturized and specialized for Portuguese needs.

STM - Logistics Support Ship

Logistics Support Ship is designed to provide logistics support to the ships at sea. Click to see the details.

www.stm.com.tr

What about Kaan, regarding Spain?

Spain is a party to French led FCAS program.

 

[Strong AI]

What about Kaan, regarding Spain?

FCAS

 

[Anmdt]

And it's confirmed.

2 AORs will be built for Portuguese Navy. First high tonnage naval vessel export to a EU and NATO country. Both ships will be built by a private shipyard in Turkey, under STM. Ships will have 137 meter length at 11000 tonnes, capable for sailing for up to 90 days without replenishment and will carry a small deck for carrying up to 20 lightly armored vehicles. No details I can find on the cost of the program. Portuguese users on social media were quoting a projected program cost of 100 million euros, but that should be excluding the weapons like the Phalanx and such.

View attachment 72718

STM Portekiz Donanması’na 2 adet ikmal ve lojistik gemisi inşaa edecek – Tolga Özbek

tolgaozbek.com

It has a stern ramp, and amphibious operation support is also mentioned. So likely that the ship can deploy amphibious assets through the ramp.
I want few for TN. Could have been useful for oversea deployments.

 

[dBSPL]

'jack of all' Auxiliary Oiler Replenisher and Logistics Ship (NRE+/AOR+)

• Replenishment At-Sea
• Command and Control
• Logistics Support
• Medical Support
• Amphibious Operations
• Humanitarian Assistance
• Regional Power Projection
• Search and Rescue

And all this capability comes with just 11,000 tons of displacement. An excellent auxiliary class created.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1869060714280734819

 

[Sanchez]

It has a stern ramp, and amphibious operation support is also mentioned. So likely that the ship can deploy amphibious assets through the ramp.
I want few for TN. Could have been useful for oversea deployments.

I don't think this ramp is fit for amphibious ops, too high, unsure though. Very interesting solution however, I agree.