TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[Sanchez]

Spain has a considerable air force and, according to online sources, already has around 60 C-101EBs and F-5BMs in active inventory. I think this gives the Spanish air force a large enough training fleet to make it one of the most important users of the Hürjet, along with the Turkish air force. So one of the things I am curious about is whether Airbus Military's facilities in Spain (former CASA) will be involved in the production activities of the Hürjet.

Projected Spanish requirement is about 55 trainer aircraft to replace their trainers, aggressor aircraft and the acroteam aircraft like we plan to do.

These are lovely, welcome news. As far as I understand it, it's not a sale and it's not close to a sale yet, but a MOU to develop the aircraft together or explore the possibilities to actively develop a Spanish version(maybe even with EJ-200 instead of F404) of the aircraft with larger Spanish workshare and technical requirements. Really hoping it materializes. Spaniards will no doubt will want increased workload either for their own aircraft or for the whole project. They are an aerospace giant in their own right with a solid history of codeveloping and even building their own aircraft like with C-101, C-235, starting member of Airbus etc, and they have multiple subcomponent suppliers, many of which are already installed on Hürjet currently. They have their own expertise they don't want to lose and this might be a start of a great relationship in further aerospace projects between us. Spain is already a major exporter of aerospace systems for decades and with Spanish expertise added, Hürjet might beat the T-50 to be a major export success altogether if a nice relationship is formed, giving billions to TAI, and ensuring Hürjet's line being open for decades.

 

[Kaan Azman]

This can go beyond a major export if we get to have a deep cooperation on HÜRJET with Spain and think of the trust it is going to build when an European country is the first customer.

 

[dBSPL]

Projected Spanish requirement is about 55 trainer aircraft to replace their trainers, aggressor aircraft and the acroteam aircraft like we plan to do.

These are lovely, welcome news. As far as I understand it, it's not a sale and it's not close to a sale yet, but a MOU to develop the aircraft together or explore the possibilities to actively develop a Spanish version(maybe even with EJ-200 instead of F404) of the aircraft with larger Spanish workshare and technical requirements. Really hoping it materializes. Spaniards will no doubt will want increased workload either for their own aircraft or for the whole project. They are an aerospace giant in their own right with a solid history of codeveloping and even building their own aircraft like with C-101, C-235, starting member of Airbus etc, and they have multiple subcomponent suppliers, many of which are already installed on Hürjet currently. They have their own expertise they don't want to lose and this might be a start of a great relationship in further aerospace projects between us. Spain is already a major exporter of aerospace systems for decades and with Spanish expertise added, Hürjet might beat the T-50 to be a major export success altogether if a nice relationship is formed, giving billions to TAI, and ensuring Hürjet's line being open for decades.

This post answered many questions in my head, thank you. I am aware of Spain's deep experience and history in military aviation. Although I have not been able to follow the important developments such as industrial restructuring, acquisitions and mergers in the last 10 years, Spain's military aircraft portfolio is already enough to explain many things.

I hope that, through the Hürjet, we can draw a model of cooperation between Spain and Turkiye based on mutual interests. The Turkish aerospace industry is preparing to compete on a global scale, especially in the 2030s, and Spain's industrial support could be invaluable. While Spain has one foot in Airbus, its involving into another potential emerging European aerospace center could pave the way for Spain to further develop its established capacity.

 

[uçuyorum]

This is a pipedream but would be cool if we built two carriers together one for spain and one for us and worked together on naval hurjet

 

[Sanchez]

This post answered many questions in my head, thank you. I am aware of Spain's deep experience and history in military aviation. Although I have not been able to follow the important developments such as industrial restructuring, acquisitions and mergers in the last 10 years, Spain's military aircraft portfolio is already enough to explain many things.

I hope that, through the Hürjet, we can draw a model of cooperation between Spain and Turkiye based on mutual interests. The Turkish aerospace industry is preparing to compete on a global scale, especially in the 2030s, and Spain's industrial support could be invaluable. While Spain has one foot in Airbus, its involving into another potential emerging European aerospace center could pave the way for Spain to further develop its established capacity.

Yup. I think people should understand this as it is.

This is not a sale of "Hürjet" to Spain. This is Hürjet going international and becoming a European trainer. Spaniards are very well connected to rest of the continent re aerospace and will push it heavily. At this time, there are no advanced European trainer aircraft either in active development or on cards. M-346 is simply not getting orders and it's not set for becoming a true advanced trainer for 21st century to train pilots for F-35, Kaan, FCAS, GCAP etc. Other projects are all cancelled. Noone is waiting for the T-7 which is fraught with issues and US procurement will take at least a decade to come to a level where they will only then actively seek export.

If this succeeds, UK and many other NATO countries will buy Hürjet, its name will probably change to a more Euro sounding name in the process, many American subcomponents on it will be replaced by European and Turkish ones.

From Defence Turkey 134th issue: "According to our sources, within the scope of the Spanish Air and Space Force (SASF)'s next-generation AJT Pogram, In lieu of direct procurement of HÜRJET from Türkiye, it is asserted that an alternative option is under consideration, whereby Spanish companies will also have local technological participation. This collaboration could transform HÜRJET into a next-generation European Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) Project, developed through the partnership of TUSAŞ, Spanish Companies. As a result, HÜRJET could attract further demand from other European countries seeking next-generation AJT."

Tony Osborne seems to see the same potential in this as well. Spain had also signed a deal to buy 25 more EF-2000s for its air force today, ensuring program goes on and necessitates the Germans to place another order as well.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1870112466958475573

For us, this means a steady stream of money flowing into TAI's fixed wing aircraft programs, a greater cooperation with European companies which we already had working relationships in the past through A400M, and we aim to have with the EF-2000 purchase and making sure Hürjet development for TurAF needs are finished as required in time and on budget where we won't see a repeat of Hürkuş and most importantly ensures Hürjet becomes an export success in not 100 units but hundreds of units and is sold to respectable air forces around the world for actual currency and partnerships instead of palm oil.

 

[dBSPL]

There is an overwhelming 70% negative opinion on Spanish social media. Of course, some of this is motivated by bigotry, and there is even a minority of idiots who equate us with Russia; ignoring them, the main concern of the rest is not only the Hürjet, but the defense ministry's serial bad decisions that they claim, especially in the field of aviation. Those who are worried about the destruction of their industrial capabilities and those who criticize why they cannot find a solution within Airbus and turn to the Turks seem to be united under the Hürjet news.

 

[Sanchez]

There is an overwhelming 70% negative opinion on Spanish social media. Of course, some of this is motivated by bigotry, and there is even a minority of idiots who equate us with Russia; ignoring them, the main concern of the rest is not only the Hürjet, but the defense ministry's serial bad decisions that they claim, especially in the field of aviation. Those who are worried about the destruction of their industrial capabilities and those who criticize why they cannot find a solution within Airbus and turn to the Turks seem to be united under the Hürjet news.

It's the same with any country with great past and successes. What's true on the ground however Turkish Spanish defence cooperation over the last decade just kept growing and getting more lucrative for both sides under multiple Spanish governments whether it's left or right. Political will seems to be there for this.

Could be such a great win, hope it happens. Who's to say FCAS won't crash and burn? What will they order then?

 

[uçuyorum]

It's the same with any country with great past and successes. What's true on the ground however Turkish Spanish defence cooperation over the last decade just kept growing and getting more lucrative for both sides under multiple Spanish governments whether it's left or right. Political will seems to be there for this.

Could be such a great win, hope it happens. Who's to say FCAS won't crash and burn? What will they order then?

Spain can't really afford to buy FCAS, more eurofighters and also replace the harriers with F35B at once. But FCAS won't materialize before 2040, it is a weird position for them. I think they probably will buy F35B though, even if they care about local industry more than others( they still have to replace some 70 F18-A)

 

[Saithan]

But considering Spanish experience with F18 wouldn't they be able to have an easier time optimizing Hürjets structure let's say an improvement and sturdiness of 1-2 tonnes overall. Or are perhaps going for something more out of the box like having Hürjet trainer with minimum addition be able to use UCAVs like wingmen ?

 

[OPTIMUS]

It seems that HÜRJET will receive Spain's tender for advanced jet trainer aircraft. "From 2030 onwards, HÜRJET can be Turkey's export champion.

Austria's tender of the same category has HÜRJET not a little chance due to political reasons.

However, if Spain chooses HÜRJET, HÜRJET will take its place in the Argentina, Brazil and Portuguese air forces.

in Bulgarian and Romanian tenders has HÜRJET little chance for aircraft of the same category due to Germany's political and economic influence in these countries.

It will come as it should come

It's coming.

Engines won't be a problem. In addition, Spanish and Turkish companies can and will work together on engines. I deliberately say Turkish companies...

 

[Ripley]

As pointed by expert members prior posts, this could be more than a huge sale but beginning of a future aviation partnership with a country holding a solid track record. And I’m fine with redeveloping Hurjet according to their requirements, if any.
Spain is a very important European country and they rarely hesitate to choose their friends unlike most of free rider “good boys” of EU.
We should explore every possible option to create partnership with Spain in every field from naval to space after being successful at this project.
A huge milestone passed.

 

[Baryshx]

There is an overwhelming 70% negative opinion on Spanish social media. Of course, some of this is motivated by bigotry, and there is even a minority of idiots who equate us with Russia; ignoring them, the main concern of the rest is not only the Hürjet, but the defense ministry's serial bad decisions that they claim, especially in the field of aviation. Those who are worried about the destruction of their industrial capabilities and those who criticize why they cannot find a solution within Airbus and turn to the Turks seem to be united under the Hürjet news.

Now, Germany and France are serious partners in such matters, sometimes going their own way. Spain also needs to chart its own path. It can build a very good partnership with Turkiye.

Turkiye and Spain are countries dealing with similar problems, which brings them closer to each other.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Spain must go down this path, even if it did not necessarily want to go down this path with Turkey originally. The partnership is of a strategic nature - it should be made clear that we have not made any new friends here in Europe.
Turkey must therefore not make the mistake of placing too much trust in this partnership.
France, together with Greece and Egypt, wants to exert great influence in the Mediterranean and its trade routes, and that is against the interests of Spain, which also has a lot of maritime weight in military and co.
Italy is more or less neutral about this, but Spain is not so enthusiastic about France exerting influence on maritime territories in foreign waters.
The natural consequence of this is that a counterpart is sought, and that is Turkey.
And Turkey must establish a give-and-take relationship with Spain and not allow itself to be ripped off.
If there is a change of government in Spain, all investments could turn into wasted energy and time if their government is then similar in nature to the Northern and Central European states.

 

[what]

Spain has been nothing but a good ally, even when something good happens our people can't stop being negative about it.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I am not saying that they are bad, I am just saying that you should be careful and not make the same mistakes that were made in Germany with the Altay Tank.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

Spain has been nothing but a good ally, even when something good happens our people can't stop being negative about it.

We have many Negative Nancies and as if those aren't enough, there are a bunch of foreigners adding their shit on as as well

 

[wolveray1]

Yup. I think people should understand this as it is.

This is not a sale of "Hürjet" to Spain. This is Hürjet going international and becoming a European trainer. Spaniards are very well connected to rest of the continent re aerospace and will push it heavily. At this time, there are no advanced European trainer aircraft either in active development or on cards. M-346 is simply not getting orders and it's not set for becoming a true advanced trainer for 21st century to train pilots for F-35, Kaan, FCAS, GCAP etc. Other projects are all cancelled. Noone is waiting for the T-7 which is fraught with issues and US procurement will take at least a decade to come to a level where they will only then actively seek export.

If this succeeds, UK and many other NATO countries will buy Hürjet, its name will probably change to a more Euro sounding name in the process, many American subcomponents on it will be replaced by European and Turkish ones.

From Defence Turkey 134th issue: "According to our sources, within the scope of the Spanish Air and Space Force (SASF)'s next-generation AJT Pogram, In lieu of direct procurement of HÜRJET from Türkiye, it is asserted that an alternative option is under consideration, whereby Spanish companies will also have local technological participation. This collaboration could transform HÜRJET into a next-generation European Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) Project, developed through the partnership of TUSAŞ, Spanish Companies. As a result, HÜRJET could attract further demand from other European countries seeking next-generation AJT."

Tony Osborne seems to see the same potential in this as well. Spain had also signed a deal to buy 25 more EF-2000s for its air force today, ensuring program goes on and necessitates the Germans to place another order as well.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1870112466958475573

For us, this means a steady stream of money flowing into TAI's fixed wing aircraft programs, a greater cooperation with European companies which we already had working relationships in the past through A400M, and we aim to have with the EF-2000 purchase and making sure Hürjet development for TurAF needs are finished as required in time and on budget where we won't see a repeat of Hürkuş and most importantly ensures Hürjet becomes an export success in not 100 units but hundreds of units and is sold to respectable air forces around the world for actual currency and partnerships instead of palm oil.

Do you think palm oil is worthless

 

[Sanchez]

Do you think palm oil is worthless

Hard currency is better, don't you agree?

 

[Saithan]

I don't understand the palm oil reference here.

 

[Sanchez]

I don't understand the palm oil reference here.

In Malaysia's trainer and LCA tender, it was claimed that had Hürjet won it some of the program costs would be paid by barter through giving palm oil to Turkey worth few hundred millions. Unsure if Koreans that won it were given the same deal. Main issue here is our inability of offering financing deals we can offer for our exports actually, not Malaysians exploring the option to pay with bartering other commodities which in itself is fine.