TR Navy Navy|News & Discussions

[TheInsider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1880336473414938748

TAIS consortium started keel laying of Milgem-9 (İstif-5).

I expect at least 2 Istif to be launched next year(Milgem-9 and 10) and another 2 in 2027(11 and 12), and all of them to be fully commissioned before the end of 2028.

Picture of Milgem-8 (İstif-4). I don't know if this is a recent photo.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1880362011537862930

 

[Nutuk]

Milgem corvettes near the age of MLU upgrade.

Instead of upgrading those Milgems, ain't it better to turn them into "Hisar class" OPV and build 4 new I-class to replace them

 

[chngr]

Milgem corvettes near the age of MLU upgrade.

Instead of upgrading those Milgems, ain't it better to turn them into "Hisar class" OPV and build 4 new I-class to replace them

No...They have gas turbine.

 

[Nutuk]

So? Let 4 of them remain with a small difference.

I think instead of putting money into:
4x MLU upgrade on the Milgem
+ buildng 4 Hisar class

Why not build 4 brandnew I-class
+ downgrade the 4 Milgem corvettes to OPV (instead of building 4 Hisar)

Would cost approx same amount of money

Our navy would gain and have 12x standardized I-class frigates

add to that 8 TF2000

And have a solid navy of 20 frigates

 

[Fairon]

Milgem corvettes near the age of MLU upgrade.

Instead of upgrading those Milgems, ain't it better to turn them into "Hisar class" OPV and build 4 new I-class to replace them

Do we have any info about MLU intention for Ada class?

Maybe using this configuration as much as possible and reclass them to OPV's(like Burak class) is the intention.

 

[Yasar_TR]

A corvette is essentially a combatant.
An OPV is primarily a patrol ship.

So one is designed to fight, the other to show the flag and be ready for minor skirmishes.

Consequentially an OPV should be structurally weaker than a corvette.

But since Hisar Class ships were built with the notion of FFBNW and their sea holding prowess are the same as Ada Class, they are structurally solid. Their hull construction are the same as Ada Class. But because of the FFBNW design feature their internal compartmentalisation are open to conversions and addition of more weapons etc.
So the Hisar class are actually corvettes in an OPV guise. In a way they are wolves in sheep’s clothing. They are built in a more economical way to fill up the numbers missing in certain naval duties within our navy. This way we save our combatants for the more serious missions.

It is a good idea to have 4 more I-Class ships to bring the tally to 12. But the Ada Class and upgraded Hisar Class ships will be more suitable in the Sea of islands. So for the future, gradually converting Hisar Class ships in to heavily weaponised versions is more feasible.

If we are going to have a carrier and another LPD, it is better to invest in another 4 x TF2000 destroyers in the long run. (Even though they are atrociously expensive ships, if we are going to find the funds to pay for the carrier, we should prepare to spend more for a further 4 destroyers.)

 

[boredaf]

If we are going to have a carrier and another LPD, it is better to invest in another 4 x TF2000 destroyers in the long run. (Even though they are atrociously expensive ships, if we are going to find the funds to pay for the carrier, we should prepare to spend more for a further 4 destroyers.)

Couldn't agree more with this mate. We have 3 seas we have to deal with, 2 of which has potential aggressors on the other side and one is open to allies of either side. While we have the luxury of putting our future carrier or LHDs together with NATO ships, we can't just blindly count on that.

We need enough air defence destroyers to cover our potential carrier, Anadolu and Trakya (if we build it) while also not leaving our own shores defenceless, so to speak. I hope our planning is being done with this in mind.

 

[UkroTurk]

So one is designed to fight, the other to show the flag and be ready for minor skirmishes.

Ada-Class Corvette is ASW with Gas-Turbine so what makes Hisar class OPV weaker? Turkish high end sensors, radars and weapons could make hisar OPVs as frigate Hunters.

Do you really think old naval doctrines are available?

Look at PLAN Corvettes, they are weaker than Hisar OPVs.

 

[Sanchez]

Turkish high end sensors, radars

MAR-D(now called Cenk-200) radars we are putting on Hisars are less capable than Smart-S on the Ada Class ships. And due to how the masts of those ships are designed, it's not clear whether they can support a larger and much heavier radar like the Cenk-400 or even Cenk-300. Cenk-300 is 2 times heavier, while 400 is 4 times heavier and both have greater cooling requirements.

 

[TheInsider]

Milgem corvettes near the age of MLU upgrade.

Instead of upgrading those Milgems, ain't it better to turn them into "Hisar class" OPV and build 4 new I-class to replace them

It is easier and cheaper to upgrade the first 4 Milgem to Istif class standards and build 4 additional Hisar class OPVs to replace Milgems.

 

[uçuyorum]

MAR-D(now called Cenk-200) radars we are putting on Hisars are less capable than Smart-S on the Ada Class ships. And due to how the masts of those ships are designed, it's not clear whether they can support a larger and much heavier radar like the Cenk-400 or even Cenk-300. Cenk-300 is 2 times heavier, while 400 is 4 times heavier and both have greater cooling requirements.

I mean look at the mast upgrade of barbaros class, it shouldn't be that difficult to put larger mast on hisar

 

[Oublious]

Building timeline off I-class.

 

[UkroTurk]

less capable

Unfortunately I am not agree. I would not compare AESA with PESA.

I would add on Ada-Class and combine 4 mini AESA plates for real time, 360degree situational awareness from sea surface and airspace.

 

[Sanchez]

Unfortunately I am not agree. I would not compare AESA with PESA.

I would add on Ada-Class and combine 4 mini AESA plates for real time, 360degree situational awareness from sea surface and airspace.

It's not a 1/1 comparison of two identical systems in output. Cenk-200 is tiny for a naval search radar, that's why we are using it on Gökdeniz CIWS.

I mean look at the mast upgrade of barbaros class, it shouldn't be that difficult to put larger mast on hisar

That is a major retrofit that would take years to implement even if it is realistically doable. Goes against the FFBNW architecture directly.

 

[dBSPL]

The relevant visual published in the monthly magazine of the Turkish Naval Forces regarding the project of expanding Aksaz with building a new dock, pier and coastal facilities. The estimated cost is 350 million euros and it is expected to tender in 2025.

1. Ongoing/Proposed Works in the Construction and Project Phase:

(a) “Needs for the deployment of TCG Anadolu Ship at the Aksaz Naval Base Command repair dock”,

(b) “Construction of the Istanbul Strait Command Umuryeri Barracks Building”,

(c) “Construction of an LCT dock and hatch drop point at Yolluca Pier”,

(ç) “Construction of a Training Pool, Training Tower, Boat Maintenance Warehouse, Garage/Maintenance/Canopy Building for SAS Command”,

(e) “Construction of a UAV Hangar and hangar construction for sea air vehicles (aircraft, helicopter) and expansion of aircraft and helicopter parking area at Dalaman Naval Air Base Command”,

(f) “Construction of a multi-purpose aircraft maintenance hangar and parking area for Çanakkale Naval Air Group Command”,

(g) “Construction of 2 piers for submarine and frigate deployment, and modernization of electrical infrastructure in Çanakkale”,

(ğ) “Infrastructure needs for the deployment of the TCG Derya at the Aksaz Naval Base Command”

2. Works Proposed Within the Scope of Project and Study Activities in 2025;

(a) “Infrastructure and superstructure requirements for the deployment of frigates and submarines in Gökçeada (1st phase)”

(b) “Construction of a new headquarters building including the Reserve Surveillance Coordination Center for the peacetime deployment of the Naval Command”,

(c) “Infrastructure and superstructure requirements for the deployment of Amphibious Marine Infantry units in the Aksaz Büyükkaraağaç region”,

(ç) “Unmanned Marine Vehicle (USV) infrastructure requirements "(Aksaz, Foça, Çanakkale, Gölcük, Mersin, Karadeniz Ereğli)”,

(d) “Infrastructure/superstructure requirements for the establishment of the USV Group Command Center in Didim/Aydın”,

In addition, the resource requirement for the construction of the “Development of TRNC İskele-Boğaz Area Convenience Facilities” (first phase)” project, whose project has been completed, will be met through economic and financial cooperation with the TRNC Work continues to start construction activities with the resources to be allocated by the Presidency budget within the scope of the agreement.


p.40 - 41

https://www.dzkk.tsk.tr/Anasayfa/DergiGaleri?lang=tr-TR

 

[Aloster]

So? Let 4 of them remain with a small difference.

I think instead of putting money into:
4x MLU upgrade on the Milgem
+ buildng 4 Hisar class

Why not build 4 brandnew I-class
+ downgrade the 4 Milgem corvettes to OPV (instead of building 4 Hisar)

Would cost approx same amount of money

Our navy would gain and have 12x standardized I-class frigates

add to that 8 TF2000

And have a solid navy of 20 frigates

İnstead of upgrading Ada why dont we convert them to Opvs with changing drive system to Codelod . After striping old drive also , we can use parts at new additional Istif . So we can increase Istif numbers to 12. Or we can use this drives at planned 4 opv so we can obtain new istif like corvettes better than Adas. Also we can use upgrade parts at new ships like new radars and sensor suits.

isreal did like this they were striping saar 4 to saat 4.5

Dear @Anmdt and also other forum members ;

I want to ask some question about Hisar OPVs and Ada class corvettes. If u kindly answer them, I would be grateful.

1) Why TN choose Hisar OPV size/copy same as Ada class, instead of İstif class ? Our opvs built ready to fit for future application if needed. For me, to upgrade İstif hulls have more spaces and more agile for this purpose.

2) First Ada, Heybeliada laid down at 2005 (18 years) , commissioned at 2011 (12 years), I dont know which date accepted for a MLU for ship. At near future TN any plan for them? and what kind modifications will be made? (May be they are still too new and modern so not needed in a decade)

3) I know Ada class purpose not this but as a request or wish or necessity we all want Ada Class also have more Air defence capabilities with siper missiles. Instead of integrate limited number siper missile to them (acc to some images 12, if i dont remember wrongly), why TN built istif class hulls and transfer all electronic sensors capabilities of Ada ships to new empty hulls with vertical launching system? After that we can basicly obtain an aged OPV and like İstif class or semi İstif class ships. I think, this is cheaper and faster then making new one. If my memory not betrayed me this kind application made by İsreal Navy before they cannibalize some ships and transfer the new hulls. But i dont know the fate of old hulls.

I find the case ships : class Sa'ar 4 to Sa'ar 4.5 modifications

 

[dBSPL]

The relevant visual published in the monthly magazine of the Turkish Naval Forces regarding the project of expanding Aksaz with building a new dock, pier and coastal facilities. The estimated cost is 350 million euros and it is expected to tender in 2025.

View attachment 73232


1. Ongoing/Proposed Works in the Construction and Project Phase:

(a) “Needs for the deployment of TCG Anadolu Ship at the Aksaz Naval Base Command repair dock”,

(b) “Construction of the Istanbul Strait Command Umuryeri Barracks Building”,

(c) “Construction of an LCT dock and hatch drop point at Yolluca Pier”,

(ç) “Construction of a Training Pool, Training Tower, Boat Maintenance Warehouse, Garage/Maintenance/Canopy Building for SAS Command”,

(e) “Construction of a UAV Hangar and hangar construction for sea air vehicles (aircraft, helicopter) and expansion of aircraft and helicopter parking area at Dalaman Naval Air Base Command”,

(f) “Construction of a multi-purpose aircraft maintenance hangar and parking area for Çanakkale Naval Air Group Command”,

(g) “Construction of 2 piers for submarine and frigate deployment, and modernization of electrical infrastructure in Çanakkale”,

(ğ) “Infrastructure needs for the deployment of the TCG Derya at the Aksaz Naval Base Command”

2. Works Proposed Within the Scope of Project and Study Activities in 2025;

(a) “Infrastructure and superstructure requirements for the deployment of frigates and submarines in Gökçeada (1st phase)”

(b) “Construction of a new headquarters building including the Reserve Surveillance Coordination Center for the peacetime deployment of the Naval Command”,

(c) “Infrastructure and superstructure requirements for the deployment of Amphibious Marine Infantry units in the Aksaz Büyükkaraağaç region”,

(ç) “Unmanned Marine Vehicle (USV) infrastructure requirements "(Aksaz, Foça, Çanakkale, Gölcük, Mersin, Karadeniz Ereğli)”,

(d) “Infrastructure/superstructure requirements for the establishment of the USV Group Command Center in Didim/Aydın”,

In addition, the resource requirement for the construction of the “Development of TRNC İskele-Boğaz Area Convenience Facilities” (first phase)” project, whose project has been completed, will be met through economic and financial cooperation with the TRNC Work continues to start construction activities with the resources to be allocated by the Presidency budget within the scope of the agreement.


p.40 - 41

https://www.dzkk.tsk.tr/Anasayfa/DergiGaleri?lang=tr-TR

1. The first phase of the construction of the naval base in TRC is finally starting.

2. In the Northern Aegean, both Çanakkale and Gökçeada, the docks and berths for submarines and frigates are being renewed and new ones will be built. There is a visible developments, with the amphibious corps command being located in Çanakkale. Also, the infrastructure of the Çanakkale Naval Air Group Command is also being improved.

3. USV group command in Didim Aydın. In addition, the completion of USV technical infrastructures in all naval bases (It seems that there will be orders for very large numbers of USVs for patrol and anti infiltration mission types )

4. An amphibious marine infantry unit will be positioned just on the eastern shore of the Aksaz Base Bay. The technical facilities of the Dalaman Air Base will be expanded and enlarged, so it can be said that the region will become the center of gravity in the Mediterranean in terms of the joint location of the navy's naval supply and maintenance, air and amphibious elements.

When we look at the ongoing shipyard infrastructure improvements and new bases in recent years, as well as the 2025 plans, these can be interpreted to some extent as preparations for the expansion of the navy.