TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Sanchez]

Has there been any mention of a "roof armour upgrade"? Or jammer or Sarp anti drone capability?

Nope. And Sarp anti drone capability is nothing more than a plan for now. Also no jammers and no anti drone capability for Akkor so far.

 

[boredaf]

Nope. And Sarp anti drone capability is nothing more than a plan for now. Also no jammers and no anti drone capability for Akkor so far.

Akkor anti drone would be a waste because I've seen both Ukraine and Russia send multiple drones to kill tanks and it has, what, 4 or 6 charges?

 

[Sanchez]

Akkor anti drone would be a waste because I've seen both Ukraine and Russia send multiple drones to kill tanks and it has, what, 4 or 6 charges?

Still better than losing a tank to a drone though. RCWS are very light skinned, they won't survive long in an open war, so we can't expect them to take over the anti drone duties.

 

[boredaf]

Still better than losing a tank to a drone though. RCWS are very light skinned, they won't survive long in an open war, so we can't expect them to take over the anti drone duties.

But you'll lose it, that is my point. From the photos it looks like it has 4 charges, all an enemy would have to do is to send 6 drones and I have seen tanks getting hit with multiple drones. With RCWS, or rather a proper CIWS like system that is automated like that, you can at least hunt them at a greater range rather than waiting until they are on top of you.

 

[Radko]

Nope. And Sarp anti drone capability is nothing more than a plan for now. Also no jammers and no anti drone capability for Akkor so far.

ASELSAN has a video in their YouTube channel, featuring Sarp w/Anti Drone. I am too busy to find it rn

 

[Tornadoss]

Add Aselsan Sahin with autonomous capability behind Altay, like crocodile and you are good to go

 

[Saithan]

Add Aselsan Sahin with autonomous capability behind Altay, like crocodile and you are good to go

This is a good solution and I thought about it as well. It looks like a 40-60mm pellet round for an effective range of 0-200m maybe less, not sure.

 

[Strong AI]

This is a good solution and I thought about it as well. It looks like a 40-60mm pellet round for an effective range of 0-200m maybe less, not sure.

700 m

ŞAHİN 130/40GL - ASELSAN

www.aselsan.com

 

[mTT]

This is a good solution and I thought about it as well. It looks like a 40-60mm pellet round for an effective range of 0-200m maybe less, not sure.

Ammunition ATOM 40 mm ABM (Air Burst Munition)

They use the same ammunition.

 

[Saithan]

Yes, I can see that and the range is pretty decent. Only thing to worry about is it has ammunition enough to deal with a swarm of drones.

 

[Anastasius]

Flak guns making a comeback as a counter for drones. Funny how life works sometimes.

 

[mTT]

Flak guns making a comeback as a counter for drones. Funny how life works sometimes.

 

[boredaf]

Şahin weighs 2 or 3 tons, it is not a feasible solution as a whole. Maybe as a system that is mounted on the tank with 2 or whatever belt fed launchers.

Or, a higher calibre gun 20/30/whatever with ATOM airburst smart munition. This is, imo, the best solution as the speed of the bullets far higher than the grenades, naturally, giving the drone less time to fly away; and whole system would weigh far less and would potentially be easier to adapt.

 

[Tornadoss]

Şahin weighs 2 or 3 tons, it is not a feasible solution as a whole. Maybe as a system that is mounted on the tank with 2 or whatever belt fed launchers.

Or, a higher calibre gun 20/30/whatever with ATOM airburst smart munition. This is, imo, the best solution as the speed of the bullets far higher than the grenades, naturally, giving the drone less time to fly away; and whole system would weigh far less and would potentially be easier to adapt.

or you can also couple a ACV or UGV with Sahin coupled with Altay.

 

[Strong AI]

Şahin weighs 2 or 3 tons, it is not a feasible solution as a whole. Maybe as a system that is mounted on the tank with 2 or whatever belt fed launchers.

Or, a higher calibre gun 20/30/whatever with ATOM airburst smart munition. This is, imo, the best solution as the speed of the bullets far higher than the grenades, naturally, giving the drone less time to fly away; and whole system would weigh far less and would potentially be easier to adapt.

I think Korkut-25 integrated into the Akkor system would be the best solution. But i wonder if Akkor's radars can be used for this purpose?

Aselsan's Korkut-25. Looks like radars all around on a telescopic mast and an attachment for munition programming. Very interesting.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1848275562634100890

 

[boredaf]

I think Korkut-25 integrated into the Akkor system would be the best solution. But i wonder if Akkor's radars can be used for this purpose?

This could be it, or, Venom LR as it can be used with mounts for 12.7 mm machine guns, so, the mount itself wouldn't be as heavy; Sarp 25mm weighs around a ton, for example, while Sarp mounts for 12.7 mm weigh 200 or 300 kg, that's a big difference.

And, would Akkor radars even have a range, let's say, 1 km to give the gun a proper chance? Or, could they be changed, or can a new set of radars added?

or you can also couple a ACV or UGV with Sahin coupled with Altay.

Best case scenario is to always have some anti-air element to cover the tanks, of course, but it is still necessary for the tank to defend itself.

 

[begturan]

ı came across a video on Instagram where Akkor offered a solution to current drone threats, but for some reason it wasn't uploaded on YouTube, so many people probably missed this video...

As you mentioned, the Şahin system can also be used against drone threats, we can do this by placing a Şahin instead of a Sarp on the Altay turret and adding a 7.62mm coaxial machine gun on the Şahin, Şahin and Sarp probably use a similar infrastructure, I don't think there will be a significant weight difference on the tank. If the Şahin works with Akkor, it can provide an effective solution. Against drones, the Şahin is activated first and the Akkor can be activated at the last moment.

Unmanned turret systems are still a new and untested system for TAF, so they must have preferred to continue with proven systems in the first stage and try new systems in the future.

For example, in the first stage, 250 manned Altay tanks will be produced and will meet the current need, then 250 unmanned turret Altay tanks will be produced, in the 3rd stage a completely unmanned Altay can be produced, its weight will be reduced in the meantime and it will be put into production with a smaller power package.

 

[Sanchez]

But you'll lose it, that is my point. From the photos it looks like it has 4 charges, all an enemy would have to do is to send 6 drones and I have seen tanks getting hit with multiple drones. With RCWS, or rather a proper CIWS like system that is automated like that, you can at least hunt them at a greater range rather than waiting until they are on top of you.

Answer is we need to have both. My possible solution is acoustic detectors coupled to the RCWS like shot finders. But APS also do need to have the option to counter FPVs.

ASELSAN has a video in their YouTube channel, featuring Sarp w/Anti Drone. I am too busy to find it rn

I think that's nothing more than something they're working on. In that video, actual Sarp used to shoot down drones was one with 40mm gun with an adapter for ATOM rounds, not the 50cal one.

Kinetic destruction of FPVs with 50cal are pretty much possible, we know it from Ukraine. But a buttoned up vehicle crew cannot see the FPV coming to them and the commander either needs to view the terrain or needs to watch out for FPVs from their screen, can't have both. So the solution required should be automated with sensors. Acoustic detectors, radars, RF antenna etc. Sarp don't have any of these for this job yet.

So, Altay is not ready for new age warfare, no tank is.

 

[Strong AI]

How effective would be an Altay MUM-T with Alpar?
On paper there is a C-UAS version of Alpar too.

Alpar | Robotic and Unmanned Ground Vehicles | Otokar Defence

defense.otokar.com.tr

 

[boredaf]

How effective would be an Altay MUM-T with Alpar?
On paper there is a C-UAS version of Alpar too.

Alpar | Robotic and Unmanned Ground Vehicles | Otokar Defence

defense.otokar.com.tr

I think that is the way tanks will go in the future, more like portable command bunkers rather than tank hunters / direct fire support. And, light and agile tanks that can hit and run hit and run with precision guided, longer range rounds.

Alpar would be great to use with, imo, Altay with unmanned turret, that way, the role of the loader could be replaced with drone controller. Or, when we can use UGVs with more autonomy commander could just, well, command the drones while they carry out the orders themselves.

Edit: Btw, I don't know why we haven't put an order for a few Alpar in different configuration already and try it out properly. On paper, it is a great system to have and it could ease the pressure on our IFVs.