TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[Tornadoss]

Şahin weighs 2 or 3 tons, it is not a feasible solution as a whole. Maybe as a system that is mounted on the tank with 2 or whatever belt fed launchers.

Or, a higher calibre gun 20/30/whatever with ATOM airburst smart munition. This is, imo, the best solution as the speed of the bullets far higher than the grenades, naturally, giving the drone less time to fly away; and whole system would weigh far less and would potentially be easier to adapt.

or you can also couple a ACV or UGV with Sahin coupled with Altay.

 

[boredaf]

I think Korkut-25 integrated into the Akkor system would be the best solution. But i wonder if Akkor's radars can be used for this purpose?

This could be it, or, Venom LR as it can be used with mounts for 12.7 mm machine guns, so, the mount itself wouldn't be as heavy; Sarp 25mm weighs around a ton, for example, while Sarp mounts for 12.7 mm weigh 200 or 300 kg, that's a big difference.

And, would Akkor radars even have a range, let's say, 1 km to give the gun a proper chance? Or, could they be changed, or can a new set of radars added?

or you can also couple a ACV or UGV with Sahin coupled with Altay.

Best case scenario is to always have some anti-air element to cover the tanks, of course, but it is still necessary for the tank to defend itself.

 

[begturan]

ı came across a video on Instagram where Akkor offered a solution to current drone threats, but for some reason it wasn't uploaded on YouTube, so many people probably missed this video...

As you mentioned, the Şahin system can also be used against drone threats, we can do this by placing a Şahin instead of a Sarp on the Altay turret and adding a 7.62mm coaxial machine gun on the Şahin, Şahin and Sarp probably use a similar infrastructure, I don't think there will be a significant weight difference on the tank. If the Şahin works with Akkor, it can provide an effective solution. Against drones, the Şahin is activated first and the Akkor can be activated at the last moment.

Unmanned turret systems are still a new and untested system for TAF, so they must have preferred to continue with proven systems in the first stage and try new systems in the future.

For example, in the first stage, 250 manned Altay tanks will be produced and will meet the current need, then 250 unmanned turret Altay tanks will be produced, in the 3rd stage a completely unmanned Altay can be produced, its weight will be reduced in the meantime and it will be put into production with a smaller power package.

 

[Sanchez]

But you'll lose it, that is my point. From the photos it looks like it has 4 charges, all an enemy would have to do is to send 6 drones and I have seen tanks getting hit with multiple drones. With RCWS, or rather a proper CIWS like system that is automated like that, you can at least hunt them at a greater range rather than waiting until they are on top of you.

Answer is we need to have both. My possible solution is acoustic detectors coupled to the RCWS like shot finders. But APS also do need to have the option to counter FPVs.

ASELSAN has a video in their YouTube channel, featuring Sarp w/Anti Drone. I am too busy to find it rn

I think that's nothing more than something they're working on. In that video, actual Sarp used to shoot down drones was one with 40mm gun with an adapter for ATOM rounds, not the 50cal one.

Kinetic destruction of FPVs with 50cal are pretty much possible, we know it from Ukraine. But a buttoned up vehicle crew cannot see the FPV coming to them and the commander either needs to view the terrain or needs to watch out for FPVs from their screen, can't have both. So the solution required should be automated with sensors. Acoustic detectors, radars, RF antenna etc. Sarp don't have any of these for this job yet.

So, Altay is not ready for new age warfare, no tank is.

 

[boredaf]

How effective would be an Altay MUM-T with Alpar?
On paper there is a C-UAS version of Alpar too.

Alpar | Robotic and Unmanned Ground Vehicles | Otokar Defence

defense.otokar.com.tr

I think that is the way tanks will go in the future, more like portable command bunkers rather than tank hunters / direct fire support. And, light and agile tanks that can hit and run hit and run with precision guided, longer range rounds.

Alpar would be great to use with, imo, Altay with unmanned turret, that way, the role of the loader could be replaced with drone controller. Or, when we can use UGVs with more autonomy commander could just, well, command the drones while they carry out the orders themselves.

Edit: Btw, I don't know why we haven't put an order for a few Alpar in different configuration already and try it out properly. On paper, it is a great system to have and it could ease the pressure on our IFVs.

 

[boredaf]

Yeah, but i think we are far away from that. I mean is there even a tank with unmanned turret, which entered mass produtcion? AFAIK only a small batch of Armatas were produced until now.
IMO a MUM-T against asymmetric threats would be already a good start.

You're right about that, it is more next generation though they are coming closer and closer. And Alpar has 400 or 500 km range, that should be more than enough by itself.

I like the idea of mumt in general because that is the future of battlefields in general; small number of elite troops (or planes or ships you get the point) supported by big number of different unmanned systems. We have a chance to lead the way here.

 

[mTT]

The KKK wants heavy tanks, the boss gets what he wants.

 

[Sanchez]

The KKK wants heavy tanks, the boss gets what he wants.

KKK doesn't know what it wants.

 

[Kaan Azman]

This could be it, or, Venom LR as it can be used with mounts for 12.7 mm machine guns, so, the mount itself wouldn't be as heavy; Sarp 25mm weighs around a ton, for example, while Sarp mounts for 12.7 mm weigh 200 or 300 kg, that's a big difference.

And, would Akkor radars even have a range, let's say, 1 km to give the gun a proper chance? Or, could they be changed, or can a new set of radars added?


Best case scenario is to always have some anti-air element to cover the tanks, of course, but it is still necessary for the tank to defend itself.

I actually see Sarsılmaz's 25 mm turret as more sensible as it does not need roof penetration and go deep, thanks to outboard ammo boxes. It also comes with the bonus of smoke canisters. It should be compatible with ATOM 25 and programmer.

 

[mTT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1925892388322414629

 

[Tornadoss]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1925892388322414629

If true this is kind of disappointing.

 

[Sanchez]

If true this is kind of disappointing.

It's not just disappointing, it's the biggest fuck up of Turkish defence industry by all its related companies in the project so far. Every single one of them fumbled horribly. MKE, Roketsan, Aselsan, BMC, they all fucked up big.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

The Altay Tank is a complete organizational disaster; it would have been easier to buy the K2 Black Panther as it is.
Then equip it with Aselsan hardware and software modifications.
It would be cheaper, and Turkey would already have over 400–500 Tanks built under license. Instead of developing every screw from scratch.

 

[I_Love_F16]

It's not just disappointing, it's the biggest fuck up of Turkish defence industry by all its related companies in the project so far. Every single one of them fumbled horribly. MKE, Roketsan, Aselsan, BMC, they all fucked up big.

Hence why i’m not following Altay anymore since last year. But it’s a good reality check. It means that we have still a lot of work to do from design to mass production of a modern MBT.

 

[TheInsider]

This is a known issue for those who follow the Altay project closely. T1 was never supposed to have the Turkish armor. It seems like they are sticking to that. Roketsan demonstrated its own armor solution via live firing tests, but demonstrating that capability is one thing; mass producing hundreds of tons of armor is another thing.

 

[Sanchez]

T1 was never supposed to have the Turkish armor

Given number on that link is for 100 tanks. So that's at least until 2030-31. Roketsan was given the task to build the armor in no later than 2010. 20 year gap.

 

[TR_123456]

This is a known issue for those who follow the Altay project closely. T1 was never supposed to have the Turkish armor. It seems like they are sticking to that. Roketsan demonstrated its own armor solution via live firing tests, but demonstrating that capability is one thing; mass producing hundreds of tons of armor is another thing.

Thats bs,all the delays and now this?
What a joke of a project the Altay has become,they fucked up big time.

 

[mTT]

The issue is that for 4th-generation armor, the required vacuum sintering and hot-pressing capacity to produce “reaction-bonded” (RB-SiC/B₄C) plates has not yet reached the threshold for defect-free mass production. The ALTAY tank’s armor is not dependent on foreign sources. For the first 100 tanks, only the core SiC/B₄C plates are imported from Korea, while the armor’s package design and reactive layers are developed by Roketsan. A domestic boron carbide production line is being established in Bandırma and is planned to enter mass production in 2027. Due to schedule pressure and certification risks, a temporary solution is being applied.

The main issue with the mentioned boron carbide armor is that, although B₄C is lightweight, it fails to withstand tungsten cores traveling at speeds above 1 km/s. At such velocities, the crystal structure collapses into an "amorphous" phase, initiating a chain of cracks that can lead to plate disintegration under multiple hits. The SiC/B₄C hybrid mitigates this risk, but to consistently achieve porosity below 1% in 400×400 mm blocks during serial production, the sintering furnace recipe still needs optimization. It is stated that the target for certification is 2027.

 

[Ahlatshah]

I dont know. Design is from SK, so are engine and transmission. Now the armor.

This tank, will not be "indigenous or national" at least 10 years. We would be better off if we bought 250 K2s

Shame

 

[Huelague]

I never understood why Roketsan was commissioned to develop the armor.