TR Attack & Utility Helicopter Programs

[Sanchez]

Why do you say it will be underpowered?

Turboshaft - Motor Sich

And what do you mean with outdated gear?
Looks like almost everything, except the engines, will be indigenous.

No changes. We’re proceeding with the Ukrainian engine. At the same time, a local engine project is ongoing between SSB and TEI. Hopefully, like with Gökbey, we’ll see it fly with a local engine too.

Ukrainian engine in question is an outdated engine, similar to ones we have on Mi-17s and early Mi-24s. It's a 50 year old Soviet design. T925 and T929 will have those engines as their basis. Later changing the design will require extensive rework, meaning more money spent on development or a similar Turkish engine(unlikely as "TS3000" is to be based on TS1400) with same deficiencies.

 

[Strong AI]

Ukrainian engine in question is an outdated engine, similar to ones we have on Mi-17s and early Mi-24s. It's a 50 year old Soviet design. T925 and T929 will have those engines as their basis. Later changing the design will require extensive rework, meaning more money spent on development or a similar Turkish engine(unlikely as "TS3000" is to be based on TS1400) with same deficiencies.

Yeah, but considering the wording of Mr. Demiroğlu, T929 is basically put on ice. So maybe it will have indigenous engines from the start.
Regarding T925, maybe the batches with Ukrainian engines will be only used inside Türkiye (i hope so) for basic troop transportation and slingloading. (I want to be optimistic)

 

[boredaf]

Regarding T925, maybe the batches with Ukrainian engines will be only used inside Türkiye (i hope so) for basic troop transportation and slingloading. (I want to be optimistic)

I've got a bridge to sell mate, you interested?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Later changing the design will require extensive rework, meaning more money spent on development or a similar Turkish engine(unlikely as "TS3000" is to be based on TS1400) with same deficiencies.

Exactly! These platforms should be built around a specific engine.

TS3000 can not be based on TS1400.
TS1400 has a two stage compressor with a radial airflow. That is the limit of number of compressor stages for a radial airflow engine. TS3000, if ever realised, is going to be an axial airflow engine with multiple compressor stages. Our best bet is to produce our own 3000HP engine by enlarging the T700 engine that we produced for the blackhawks based on the GE model, by calling it TS3000. After all the TS1400 is based on the Honeywell CTS800.

 

[Saithan]

I think you guys know my pov on this, I require more than proof of concept, I want a production and delivery of enough platforms no less than 30-40 to armed forces to be used to garner more experience On TS1400 and I expect accumulation of experience to yield better result on anything we produce later on. I do not accept the delays on using TS1400, civilian certification is not relevant for what we need to use it for. Imo T129 should have at least 30-60 with TS1400. Experience is very important.

 

[mTT]

GÖKBEY Made Its First Overseas Flight at TEKNOFEST TRNC

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1918632094776819926

 

[Strong AI]

Exist to rise like the sun over the darkness!

With our domestic and national helicopter, GÖKBEY, our night and day flight trainings continue without interruption.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1918727559669244077

 

[Kaan Azman]

T129 ATAK Shown in TEKNOFEST 2025 with RF Jammer Pod | TURDEF

During TEKNOFEST 2025, held in Northern Cyprus, TUSAŞ’s T129 ATAK attack helicopter was exhibited with an under-wing RF jammer pod for the first time.

turdef.com

Something interesting from T129 ATAK, been dreaming of EW pods on attack helicopters after seeing this many pods on UAVs and now it is a reality (My legs are still swearing at me full throttle from the TEKNOFEST TRNC run)

 

[Strong AI]

T129 ATAK Shown in TEKNOFEST 2025 with RF Jammer Pod | TURDEF

During TEKNOFEST 2025, held in Northern Cyprus, TUSAŞ’s T129 ATAK attack helicopter was exhibited with an under-wing RF jammer pod for the first time.

turdef.com

Something interesting from T129 ATAK, been dreaming of EW pods on attack helicopters after seeing this many pods on UAVs and now it is a reality (My legs are still swearing at me full throttle from the TEKNOFEST TRNC run)

This is literally T-129 Atak Phase-II/B2 and it flew already in 2019 with that pod.

First Test Flight with the T129 Phase II Prototype

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[Sanchez]

This is literally T-129 Atak Phase-II/B2 and it flew already in 2019 with that pod.

First Test Flight with the T129 Phase II Prototype

www.defenceturkey.com

 

[TheInsider]

Note that Atak has both an integrated jammer and a jammer pod.

 

[Sanchez]

Interestingly, "TC-HLR" could be a new prototype, I don't think we ever saw this registry before. Previous 4 prototypes were orange/yellow and then blue P0 HLP, blue P1 HLI, gendarme livery P2 HLV and the black P3 HLH. This HLR is either a re-registry, or a new prototype.

From TAI GM's recent Sabah interview:
"To date, we have built 3 plus 4 prototypes on the GÖKBEY serial production line."

https://www.sabah.com.tr/gundem/2025/05/05/2026da-uc-kaan-gokyuzunde-dans-edecek?paging=2

I don't know how to read this. 3 is the first 3 production helicopters given to JnGK. But they also built 4 more prototype/test models on the same line and TC-HLR is one of them? Or "4 prototypes" refer to the 4 original prototypes and HLR is a re-registry. Or gendarme livery TC-HLV was reclassed and delivered to JnGK and HLR was built to replace that for testing?

 

[Saithan]

From TAI GM's recent Sabah interview:
"To date, we have built 3 plus 4 prototypes on the GÖKBEY serial production line."

https://www.sabah.com.tr/gundem/2025/05/05/2026da-uc-kaan-gokyuzunde-dans-edecek?paging=2

I don't know how to read this. 3 is the first 3 production helicopters given to JnGK. But they also built 4 more prototype/test models on the same line and TC-HLR is one of them? Or "4 prototypes" refer to the 4 original prototypes and HLR is a re-registry. Or gendarme livery TC-HLV was reclassed and delivered to JnGK and HLR was built to replace that for testing?

I don't like how they speak so vague. It is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[sh. Abdj]

From TAI GM's recent Sabah interview:
"To date, we have built 3 plus 4 prototypes on the GÖKBEY serial production line."

https://www.sabah.com.tr/gundem/2025/05/05/2026da-uc-kaan-gokyuzunde-dans-edecek?paging=2

I don't know how to read this. 3 is the first 3 production helicopters given to JnGK. But they also built 4 more prototype/test models on the same line and TC-HLR is one of them? Or "4 prototypes" refer to the 4 original prototypes and HLR is a re-registry. Or gendarme livery TC-HLV was reclassed and delivered to JnGK and HLR was built to replace that for testing?

I think they built 3 as prototype then when finalizing the design they built 4 for testing mass production. They literally promised to deliver 2 each month since 2024.

 

[begturan]

Note that Atak has both an integrated jammer and a jammer pod.

There are so many details in a combat vehicle and we have many of these critical technologies that can be called details, this is really a great pride. We have now reached an important point regarding the power package that our people have been asking nonstop.

BUT will the domestic power pack used in Gökbey be used in the Attack helicopter? What is the status of Pakistan's attack helicopter purchase, which has been waiting for an answer for years?

 

[Saithan]

Pakistan went with Chinese Z-something I think because Turkey could not deliver on a promise they made.

 

[Yasar_TR]

BUT will the domestic power pack used in Gökbey be used in the Attack helicopter? What is the status of Pakistan's attack helicopter purchase, which has been waiting for an answer for years?

This issue was discussed here before. T-129 Atak, albeit a Turkish built helicopter, it is a Turco-Italian joint venture project that allows us to produce it under licenses. Italians get their share from each sale of helicopter.

Although not confirmed, what makes T-129, as T-129, is the contractually accepted basics. It has to have a Honeywell CTS-800 engine which is manufactured under license in TEI. By another few years (2028) , the license to produce the helicopter will expire. What this expiration will mean we don’t know. But in the mean time, our T-129s have to be powered by the CTS-800 engines.

TS1400 engine is ready for serial production to fly civilian Gokbey. It already flew with one. But needs civilian certification.
To fly a T-129, the TS1400 engine needs special accessories to militarise it. As per Prof Aksit has pointed out it needs for example a new oil pump system so that when the aircraft tilts too much or makes a loop the engine is still well oiled. But TEI have not yet been advised to develop a militarised TS1400. Probably because the TS1400 can not contractually power T-129. (This issue was “insinuated” as being the case by Prof Aksit in one of his interviews)

So unless US releases the engine sale to Pakistan, the Atak will not be heading to PAK way.

 

[Saithan]

Probably because the TS1400 can not contractually power T-129. (This issue was “insinuated” as being the case by Prof Aksit in one of his interviews)

So unless US releases the engine sale to Pakistan, the Atak will not be heading to PAK way.

If I understand this part right, the license production of T129 is locked on the CTS-800 engine, which means we can't offer it to anyone else as long as we use the design from Italy and engine from US.

Thus we'd need to develop a new helicopter with our own design and fit it with TS1400. Am I correct ?

 

[Strong AI]

This issue was discussed here before. T-129 Atak, albeit a Turkish built helicopter, it is a Turco-Italian joint venture project that allows us to produce it under licenses. Italians get their share from each sale of helicopter.

Although not confirmed, what makes T-129, as T-129, is the contractually accepted basics. It has to have a Honeywell CTS-800 engine which is manufactured under license in TEI. By another few years (2028) , the license to produce the helicopter will expire. What this expiration will mean we don’t know. But in the mean time, our T-129s have to be powered by the CTS-800 engines.

TS1400 engine is ready for serial production to fly civilian Gokbey. It already flew with one. But needs civilian certification.
To fly a T-129, the TS1400 engine needs special accessories to militarise it. As per Prof Aksit has pointed out it needs for example a new oil pump system so that when the aircraft tilts too much or makes a loop the engine is still well oiled. But TEI have not yet been advised to develop a militarised TS1400. Probably because the TS1400 can not contractually power T-129. (This issue was “insinuated” as being the case by Prof Aksit in one of his interviews)

So unless US releases the engine sale to Pakistan, the Atak will not be heading to PAK way.

If I understand this part right, the license production of T129 is locked on the CTS-800 engine, which means we can't offer it to anyone else as long as we use the design from Italy and engine from US.

Thus we'd need to develop a new helicopter with our own design and fit it with TS1400. Am I correct ?

Isn't that the reason why T629 was planned? But T629 is no more i think.

 

[Yasar_TR]

If I understand this part right, the license production of T129 is locked on the CTS-800 engine, which means we can't offer it to anyone else as long as we use the design from Italy and engine from US.

Thus we'd need to develop a new helicopter with our own design and fit it with TS1400. Am I correct ?

It does sound like that. There could be a change of license agreement. No agreement is written in stone. Even the production of 109 Blackhawks‘ engine license agreement has a clause that we could alter it with approval from GE.
I guess the whole point of T629 was to overcome this stumbling block.

EDIT:
Ha ha ha!
@Strong AI you have just beaten me with a few seconds.

You are correct. It is in the backburner and/or shelved for the time