TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Joe mark]

I think friends are criticizing this news because of their political ideology

 

[Strong AI]

Third lapse; I was stating facts. Facts don't cry. Delays are normal. I said there are delays (which effectively there are since 2 prototypes can't be built in 5 months), you disputed facts and now that you have to concede you move the goalpost about my personal view of the matter which has nothing to do with my posts.

Now prove that they didn't start the production of those two prototypes and if they didn't started yet, prove that they can't do it in five months.

 

[mehmed beg]

I am more than sure that Indonesians know a lot more about KAAN project and where it stands then anybody in this forum.
For me personally, if confirmed, this means that the Indonesians have some confidence in the Turkish designed engines.
Also, some experience from working on KFX 21 , can be handy. Add to that probability that Pakistanis would surly give their opinion about the Stealth, after they get j35 . All of it is fantastic.
If Turks get F35 in B version, then all is going to really good direction.

 

[Rooxbar]

Now prove that they didn't start the production of those two prototypes and if they didn't started yet, prove that they can't do it in five months.

Can't prove that; it's very unlikely though (would put odds at something like 500 to 1). My original post was about what I'm expecting; I have been expecting news about the new prototype and very excited to see it. A bit disappointed about the delays but they are understandable. If there are delays I want forthright and honest acknowledgment and statement. Overly defensive posturing will land you with F313 and a population which can't say 'look that's a maquette', and the officials can afford to sell maquettes as the real thing because objective analysis is silenced and the rest are bootlickers.

 

[Bogeyman]

Will be too many expensive jets, they are buying 40 new 5th gens, awacs and air defense form China, they seem to have realized the immediacy of their weaknesses after recent incident and won't wait for Kaan and won't have money for it any time soo. Maybe in the future

Kaan's deliveries will start in 7 years. It is claimed that Pakistan will receive J-35 fighter jets in 2-3 months. Pakistan has just come out of a war with India. It is too early to think about Kaan for Pakistan.

 

[Strong AI]

Can't prove that; it's very unlikely though (would put odds at something like 500 to 1). My original post was about what I'm expecting; I have been expecting news about the new prototype and very excited to see it. A bit disappointed about the delays but they are understandable. If there are delays I want forthright and honest acknowledgment and statement. Overly defensive posturing will land you with F313 and a population which can't say 'look that's a maquette', and the officials can afford to sell maquettes as the real thing because objective analysis is silenced and the rest are bootlickers.

A few photos from the production of KAAN's second prototype was shared by Haluk Görgün.

"The assembly of more than 2000 domestic and national parts continues at full speed. "

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1870038708079964305

 

[Samba]

They posted it on their Instagram only?

Anyways this means we show a big middle finger to USA. Indonesia will probably show it to France.

Regardless, I doubt if USA will allow the use of its engines

 

[Rooxbar]

You can check reactions to the post to see that I've seen those; It's been 2 years since the first prototype finished, obviously they've made parts since then. The whole discussion was about the fact that by 5 months time we should have had 2 prototypes ready and we have none yet. Hopefully we see the second prototype ready in the next 5 months.

 

[guest12]

Timeline doest make sense considering current situation of Erdogan goverment this is most likely bogus news for internal consumption.

 

[Strong AI]

Regardless, I doubt if USA will allow the use of its engines

Did you read the whole post? They will buy it with turkish TF35000 engine.

 

[Sanchez]

So Hürjet MoU with Spain is a lie too? Oh no...

It's a MoU, a statement of will and interest of creating something.

It looks like two MoU were signed, one for procurement and another one for cooperation.

Both are MoUs, which are again statements of interest, none of it are legally binding contracts. There's no payment for the aircraft, there's no official documentation.

Turkiye order is between 250 - 350 . Where u get that 100 number ?

Current Turkish order for Kaan as far as I'm aware is 0 excluding the prototypes SSB ordered.

Indonesia did not honour its agreements with KAI

Neither did KAI honour its agreements with Indonesia in tech sharing.

This is a momentous occasion for two countries, more so for Turkey. But an MoU is just an MoU. It needs to be followed by further agreements and a solid order from the customer side, which with it will bring TAI ordering the necessary subcomponents to actually build the aircraft for delivery. Indonesian friends may not like me saying it, but legal side of the future deal must be rock solid to not hamper the development of the aircraft and put TAI in the red during development and more importantly during production phase. For Korea, KF-21 development being hampered is not the end of the world, for Turkey, everything rides on Kaan. It's the apple of our eye and war of liberation 2.0. Indonesia as its first outside customer hopefully will also see what we see in it and adopt it as their own. Full, unhampered access to a next gen fighter that you own completely, that its seller won't dictate you terms at for its use. This requires absolute goodwill on both sides for decades to come and that will also bring so many more opportunities. Indonesia didn't have that with their Korean partners, hoping it will not repeat.

Putting economics and politics aside, I do think Kaan is a perfect match for Indonesian needs more than anything, so much more than KF-21 ever was. It's a 5th gen high performance aircraft that can do anything its peers can do and more at greater ranges. Noone is offering an equivalent aircraft at this time and won't be offering it for decades to come. If we can pull Kaan off, it will be the most produced 5th gen fighter after F-35 easily in the decades to follow.

Best of luck to us all.

 

[Oublious]

 

[mTT]

You can check reactions to the post to see that I've seen those; It's been 2 years since the first prototype finished, obviously they've made parts since then. The whole discussion was about the fact that by 5 months time we should have had 2 prototypes ready and we have none yet. Hopefully we see the second prototype ready in the next 5 months.

President of Defense Industry Görgün shared the image of the 2nd prototype of the national combat aircraft KAAN.

I remember a news dated January 2025.


I think we will see the third prototype in January 2026.

 

[Strong AI]

You can check reactions to the post to see that I've seen those; It's been 2 years since the first prototype finished, obviously they've made parts since then. The whole discussion was about the fact that by 5 months time we should have had 2 prototypes ready and we have none yet. Hopefully we see the second prototype ready in the next 5 months.

How do you know that they are not ready or close to ready?
Besides first flight of first F-35A prototype (AA-1) was in 2006, first flight of second prototype (AF-1) was in 2009.
So what is your point?

 

[Spitfire9]

It's a MoU, a statement of will and interest of creating something.

Both are MoUs, which are again statements of interest, none of it are legally binding contracts. There's no payment for the aircraft, there's no official documentation.

Current Turkish order for Kaan as far as I'm aware is 0 excluding the prototypes SSB ordered.

Neither did KAI honour its agreements with Indonesia in tech sharing.

I followed the long saga of Indonesia failing to meet its agreements, promising to observe its agreements and to make good the development money outstanding then failing to do that again, then asking for a reduction in its share of development costs and (I believe) failing to build facilities in Indonesia as promised for development/assembly of K-FX. IIRC 30 development engineers ended up working in ROK.

I don't know. Funds allocated for KF-X went into corrupt pockets?

If you refer to prototype no 5, promised to Indonesia in the contract that was not transferred according to the contract but instead retained by KAI because Indonesia kept lying that it would pay what it owed towards development costs. At one point it wanted ROK to take aircraft built in Indonesia as part payment since it did not have any funds to pay. Then it ordered a load of Rafales. Were they free? I don't think so.

Beware of dealing with Indonesia.

 

[Strong AI]

Current Turkish order for Kaan as far as I'm aware is 0 excluding the prototypes SSB ordered.

According to TAI CEO, TURAF has ordered 16 KAANs and they expect another order this year after a SSİK meeting (3:20).

TAI General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu:
- "We are planning to sell 48 KAANs to Indonesia. The first delivery will be in the 2030s. Deliveries will be made with a domestic engine. It has a value between 12-15 billion dollars."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1932760439827673565

@Strong AI

 

[Fairon]

How do you know that they are not ready or close to ready?
Besides first flight of first F-35A prototype (AA-1) was in 2006, first flight of second prototype (AF-1) was in 2009.
So what is your point?

The F-35 project isn’t exactly famous for being well-managed, though.

 

[Sanchez]

According to TAI CEO, TURAF has ordered 16 KAANs and they expect another order this year after a SSİK meeting.

Thanks! I think it corroborates my point. Interest, request, wishlist and actual orders are very different things. Will TurAF easily order 100 jets, probably yes. Did it yet, no.

Another point, with Erdoğan himself announcing it first officially, this is probably more than a simple MoU. There was absolutely personal diplomacy involved and future agreements will follow. But, one foot after the other. Slow is steady, steady is smooth, smooth is fast.

 

[No Name]

People need to ask less about the KAAN prototypes and more about Toygar, Karat and other components.

Have we heard anything new about them?

 

[Rooxbar]

How do you know that they are not ready or close to ready?
Besides first flight of first F-35A prototype (AA-1) was in 2006, first flight of second prototype (AF-1) was in 2009.
So what is your point?

Wrong. The second prototype was AA-2 and flew 5 months after AA-1. AF-1 was the first series production model.