TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Strong AI

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You can check reactions to the post to see that I've seen those; It's been 2 years since the first prototype finished, obviously they've made parts since then. The whole discussion was about the fact that by 5 months time we should have had 2 prototypes ready and we have none yet. Hopefully we see the second prototype ready in the next 5 months.
How do you know that they are not ready or close to ready?
Besides first flight of first F-35A prototype (AA-1) was in 2006, first flight of second prototype (AF-1) was in 2009.
So what is your point?
 

Spitfire9

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It's a MoU, a statement of will and interest of creating something.

Both are MoUs, which are again statements of interest, none of it are legally binding contracts. There's no payment for the aircraft, there's no official documentation.

Current Turkish order for Kaan as far as I'm aware is 0 excluding the prototypes SSB ordered.

Neither did KAI honour its agreements with Indonesia in tech sharing.
I followed the long saga of Indonesia failing to meet its agreements, promising to observe its agreements and to make good the development money outstanding then failing to do that again, then asking for a reduction in its share of development costs and (I believe) failing to build facilities in Indonesia as promised for development/assembly of K-FX. IIRC 30 development engineers ended up working in ROK.

I don't know. Funds allocated for KF-X went into corrupt pockets?

If you refer to prototype no 5, promised to Indonesia in the contract that was not transferred according to the contract but instead retained by KAI because Indonesia kept lying that it would pay what it owed towards development costs. At one point it wanted ROK to take aircraft built in Indonesia as part payment since it did not have any funds to pay. Then it ordered a load of Rafales. Were they free? I don't think so.

Beware of dealing with Indonesia.
 
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Strong AI

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Current Turkish order for Kaan as far as I'm aware is 0 excluding the prototypes SSB ordered.
According to TAI CEO, TURAF has ordered 16 KAANs and they expect another order this year after a SSİK meeting (3:20).
TAI General Manager Mehmet Demiroğlu:
- "We are planning to sell 48 KAANs to Indonesia. The first delivery will be in the 2030s. Deliveries will be made with a domestic engine. It has a value between 12-15 billion dollars."


@Strong AI
 

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How do you know that they are not ready or close to ready?
Besides first flight of first F-35A prototype (AA-1) was in 2006, first flight of second prototype (AF-1) was in 2009.
So what is your point?

The F-35 project isn’t exactly famous for being well-managed, though.
 

Sanchez

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According to TAI CEO, TURAF has ordered 16 KAANs and they expect another order this year after a SSİK meeting.
Thanks! I think it corroborates my point. Interest, request, wishlist and actual orders are very different things. Will TurAF easily order 100 jets, probably yes. Did it yet, no.

Another point, with Erdoğan himself announcing it first officially, this is probably more than a simple MoU. There was absolutely personal diplomacy involved and future agreements will follow. But, one foot after the other. Slow is steady, steady is smooth, smooth is fast.
 

No Name

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People need to ask less about the KAAN prototypes and more about Toygar, Karat and other components.

Have we heard anything new about them?
 

Rooxbar

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How do you know that they are not ready or close to ready?
Besides first flight of first F-35A prototype (AA-1) was in 2006, first flight of second prototype (AF-1) was in 2009.
So what is your point?
Wrong. The second prototype was AA-2 and flew 5 months after AA-1. AF-1 was the first series production model.
 

Sanchez

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People need to ask less about the KAAN prototypes and more about Toygar, Karat .

Have we heard anything new about them?
Their prototyping phase continue and first prototype deliveries for testing should be by next year at the latest from my head. These are subcomponents, not really flashy things they will scream about. We will see them on Kaan, KE and Anka-3, they're coming.
 

No Name

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Their prototyping phase continue and first prototype deliveries for testing should be by next year at the latest from my head. These are subcomponents, not really flashy things they will scream about. We will see them on Kaan, KE and Anka-3, they're coming.
Wouldn't the time frame match the expected flight date of the new prototypes?

Additionally, could the contaminated titanium supply slow down the assembly slightly?
 
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Zafer

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Congratulations to TAI on securing an agreement from Indonesia to buy 48 KAAN!

Cautionary footnote:

Indonesia did not honour its agreements with KAI
Indonesia chose Kaan over Boramae because Kaan is more capable and with no strings attached. If there were a better choice they would choose that one. This does not mean they will not honor the Kaan deal, on the contrary it means they will stick to it as it is the only good option in the decade ahead.
 
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TheInsider

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test flights of KAAN will begin next year, not this year.

1:40

This is not news. TAI wants to do the first flight of the first second prototype just before 2025 ends in a similar fashion to the first prototype(they still can), but a more realistic date is January to March. This has always been the case. December to January is 1 month, December to March is 3-4 months. This is not a delay.

In a similar fashion TAI plans to deliver the first KAAN before 2028 ends, but Q1 2029 looks more realistic.
In 2026, 2 prototypes will fly for testing. In 2027, 5 prototypes will fly. In 2028 tests will continue with 5 prototypes. This is a really intense testing campaign.
 
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Zafer

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1750204575657.png
 
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Spitfire9

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Indonesia chose Kaan over Boramae because Kaan is more capable and with no strings attached. If there were a better choice they would choose that one. This does not mean they will not honor the Kaan deal, on the contrary it means they will stick to it as it is the only good option in the decade ahead.
If you are making a contract with a known bad payer or dishonest customer you take care to protect yourself against non-payment. I guess that insurance against non-payment for its Rafales by Indonesia was quite expensive after Indonesia had shown how little importance honouring its contracts was to it in its dealings with ROK.

Agreed, the KAAN specification (when defined) should suit Indonesia better than KF-21. Much riskier, though - there is no certainty when the engine will be ready. Perhaps that does not matter. With a lot of Rafales coming, a long wait for KAAN may be quite acceptable to Indonesia.
 

Zafer

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Libya ?

As a precondition for reaching an agreement with the GNA, a joint KAAN order by the LNA and GNA will be required.
As for the payment, let's receive it in the form of oil — Libyan oil is of high quality.
Libya does not need a 5 gen fighter
 

Zafer

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If you are making a contract with a known bad payer or dishonest customer you take care to protect yourself against non-payment. I guess that insurance against non-payment for its Rafales by Indonesia was quite expensive after Indonesia had shown how little importance honouring its contracts was to it in its dealings with ROK.

Agreed, the KAAN specification (when defined) should suit Indonesia better than KF-21. Much riskier, though - there is no certainty when the engine will be ready. Perhaps that does not matter. With a lot of Rafales coming, a long wait for KAAN may be quite acceptable to Indonesia.
Türkiye is on the way to becoming a one stop shop for weapons, we can support our partners with unmanned planes and even Kaan can be optionally manned with an immature engine.
 

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With a lot of Rafales coming, a long wait for KAAN may be quite acceptable to Indonesia
Per what's been released, deliveries will start in mid 2030s, so basically.

Libya does not need a 5 gen fighter
Yet. Libya used to have one of the largest air forces in the region. They used to operate up to 60 Mig-25s and no less than 15 Tu-22s.

and even Kaan can be optionally manned with an immature engine.
We are not putting immature engines on a state of the art 150 million+ airframe.
 

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