TR Altay Main Battle Tank & Related Programs

[TR_123456]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1961696844200710556

Wow,after fucking 15 years three will be delivered in 2025.
What an achievement!!!

 

[Sanchez]

They touted the August 30 line for months in all media in official interviews and pundits, even national media.

Let's get something clear, delivering 3 tanks to the army was never anything more than a token show of belief in the project, a way of saying "things being put on the right track". You can't do anything with 3 tanks, they are not supported by any infrastructure, training regimens or other support equipment; none of those were to be delivered today, just 3 tanks.

It baffles me that they couldn't even deliver that.

 

[Zafer]

They touted the August 30 line for months in all media in official interviews and pundits, even national media.

Let's get something clear, delivering 3 tanks to the army was never anything more than a token show of belief in the project, a way of saying "things being put on the right track". You can't do anything with 3 tanks, they are not supported by any infrastructure, training regimens or other support equipment; none of those were to be delivered today, just 3 tanks.

It baffles me that they couldn't even deliver that.

Enough with badmouthing, making the tank is neither important at this day and age nor a priority. Turkish industry has matured to make a state of the art tank and what day you get the deliveries is not anything critical. You get the tanks within a comfortable delivery schedule and always up to date. If you had received tanks earlier they would have been obsolete by now.

 

[Merzifonlu]

Enough with badmouthing, making the tank is neither important at this day and age nor a priority.

If that tank factory does not start mass production within 2025 and 3 prototype tanks are not delivered in the configuration of the mass-produced tanks, then I will be the ONE talking with badmouthing!

Enough is enough!!!

 

[IC3M@N FX]

All the pressure and embarrassment would have been completely unnecessary if 200 K2 Black Thunder tanks had not been ordered from South Korea from the outset. This would have allowed the Altay T2 to be developed at a leisurely pace until 2030, while at the same time building up production capacity so that around 50-100 tanks (including for export) could be manufactured annually from 2030 onwards.
Realistically, Turkey only needs around 500-600 modern heavy battle tanks and around 1,000 light tanks.
The era of heavy tanks is coming to an end in the 21st century—today, networked, light, and agile tanks with good range and firepower, integrated Sungur VSHORAD, and several kamikaze FPV drones with high explosive power are crucial.
In the 21st century, rapid intervention and very fast troop movements to accompany air defense systems and create A2/AD are a must.

 

[Fairon]

They touted the August 30 line for months in all media in official interviews and pundits, even national media.

Let's get something clear, delivering 3 tanks to the army was never anything more than a token show of belief in the project, a way of saying "things being put on the right track". You can't do anything with 3 tanks, they are not supported by any infrastructure, training regimens or other support equipment; none of those were to be delivered today, just 3 tanks.

It baffles me that they couldn't even deliver that.

At this point, it’s really hard not to feel like something’s seriously wrong with the Altay. Like you said, they could’ve just announced that the tanks are in service. Even if they’re not fully ready yet, as long as they met the basic requirements, that would’ve been fine( like what we did with the Ataks)

They couldn't even do that.

 

[Turkic]

I join @Zafer abi on this. We are finally getting Altay's and yes, there are a lot to criticize about Altay project from day 0 but today is not the day for it. Today, let's be happy for having the Altay as a top tier mbt and congratulate our engineers. Think about it, would you be happy if you saw bad comments in the forum after delivering 3 Altay's as an engineer?

There is time for badmouthing and there is time for making the day for everyone who worked day and night for it. I guess it won't be hard for anyone to understand which one is today.

 

[I_Love_F16]

I join @Zafer abi on this. We are finally getting Altay's and yes, there are a lot to criticize about Altay project from day 0 but today is not the day for it. Today, let's be happy for having the Altay as a top tier mbt and congratulate our engineers. Think about it, would you be happy if you saw bad comments in the forum after delivering 3 Altay's as an engineer?

There is time for badmouthing and there is time for making the day for everyone who worked day and night for it. I guess it won't be hard for anyone to understand which one is today.

I mean, they say it every single year that it's going to enter "mass production". What makes you think that this shit show won't continue in the coming years ?

 

[Sanchez]

Enough with badmouthing, making the tank is neither important at this day and age nor a priority. Turkish industry has matured to make a state of the art tank and what day you get the deliveries is not anything critical. You get the tanks within a comfortable delivery schedule and always up to date. If you had received tanks earlier they would have been obsolete by now.

No, i'll be badmouthing when our tankers burn to death in their M60A3s in 5 years. Turkish industry is unable to deliver the said state of the art tank for the last 5 years. It's become Schroedinger's tank at this point. As long as it doesn't get delivered, it's state of the art. That's not how any of this or world works. We actively use M48s, we needed new tanks 20 years ago.

BMC fuckups don't just end with Altay. We all see how is TIYK is going for non modded tanks. 8 years after Euphrates Shield and all we have to show for, with any luck of surviving a semi modern ATGM hit are the 170 M60T1s and 40 Leopard 2T1s. That's it. Crew of M60T1 are dead the moment the armor is penetrated because it's a design from 1950s and Leopard 2T1s only have applique armor, nothing else; they use FCS and optics from 1980s. None of the tanks we have are ready for the modern state war of 2025. It's debatable if Altay is ready for this type of war.

Aselsan mod package is ready. Aselsan mod package is being exported to customers in Chile, but there's literally no update on TIYK for the last 5 years.

let's be happy for having the Altay as a top tier mbt and congratulate our engineers.

We don't have Altay, that's the whole point. Even if the delivery was made today, we won't have the first Altay company before 2026. First battalion will be ready in 2027 by just delivery numbers alone.

 

[Zafer]

No, i'll be badmouthing when our tankers burn to death in their M60A3s in 5 years. Turkish industry is unable to deliver the said state of the art tank for the last 5 years. It's become Schroedinger's tank at this point. As long as it doesn't get delivered, it's state of the art. That's not how any of this or world works. We actively use M48s, we needed new tanks 20 years ago.

BMC fuckups don't just end with Altay. We all see how is TIYK is going for non modded tanks. 8 years after Euphrates Shield and all we have to show for, with any luck of surviving a semi modern ATGM hit are the 170 M60T1s and 40 Leopard 2T1s. That's it. Crew of M60T1 are dead the moment the armor is penetrated because it's a design from 1950s and Leopard 2T1s only have applique armor, nothing else; they use FCS and optics from 1980s. None of the tanks we have are ready for the modern state war of 2025. It's debatable if Altay is ready for this type of war.

Aselsan mod package is ready. Aselsan mod package is being exported to customers in Chile, but there's literally no update on TIYK for the last 5 years.


We don't have Altay, that's the whole point. Even if the delivery was made today, we won't have the first Altay company before 2026. First battalion will be ready in 2027 by just delivery numbers alone.

War is in the air.

 

[Turkic]

I mean, they say it every single year that it's going to enter "mass production". What makes you think that this shit show won't continue in the coming years ?

Personally, I don't think Altay project any different from T925 or other big projects since the restart of the project. I don't remember any major delays other than the problems affecting all big projects. About small delays? I don't count them unless it gets more than 2 years in any project of any country.

I wanna add a note. I was moving to a house yesterday and I was unable to follow news (3 Altay). So my post was written on a thinking of 3 Altay's were delivered. Please take my point in general and ignore the parts about the day.

 

[TR_123456]

I don't think Altay project any different from T925 or other big projects since the restart of the project

The difference being that the Altay was a finished project in 2016 when mass production would start but it didnt,instead the ''tender'' was given to BMC a newcomer with no experience at all.
The T925 is just a mockup,not even one working helicopter.
How can you compare these projects?

 

[Turkic]

The difference being that the Altay was a finished project in 2016 when mass production would start but it didnt,instead the ''tender'' was given to BMC a newcomer with no experience at all.

As I said, I'm talking about the new Altay. Not the one which was supposed to enter mass production in 2016. That one has a lot lot to criticize about.

The T925 is just a mockup,not even one working helicopter.
How can you compare these projects?

In terms of potential delays, that was the topic.

 

[Quasar]

on the one hand TAI is may be the most professionally organized entity in Türkiye and well integrated into the world aerospace industry yet still not free from political influnce and political propaganda , on the other hand BMC has been an organizational disaster..... NOT ALTAY but BMC has been the problem and this fact is more important than the technical aspect of delays in the ALTAY project.


ALTAY was a project given to BMC and we all know that BMC has been the least qualified ''candidate''.... so you should be ready for criticism and again criticizing BMC is not directly means criticizing ALTAY

 

[TheInsider]

At this point, a new tank with a hybrid propulsion system, a 3-man crew, an autoloader, and an unmanned turret should be designed from scratch with an aim to start serial production in 2031. There is no need to produce Altay more than 250 units. We should upgrade every upgradable tank in our inventory, including M60s to improve quality and keep quantity at a good level. BMC can be funded with 250 Altay and tank upgrade jobs.

 

[TR_123456]

In terms of potential delays, that was the topic.

No it was not.
There was no potential delay,it was 15 years of incompetence.

As I said, I'm talking about the new Altay. Not the one which was supposed to enter mass production in 2016. That one has a lot lot to criticize about.

The new Altay is the old Altay with upgrades which can be done years after delivery.
There is no use and no way to downplay this.its a fuckup by the government and BMC.



So,trying to make an illogical problem logical is not the way to go.

 

[Turkic]

No it was not.
There was no potential delay,it was 15 years of incompetence.

The new Altay is the old Altay with upgrades which can be done years after delivery.
There is no use and no way to downplay this.its a fuckup by the government and BMC.



So,trying to make an illogical problem logical is not the way to go.

Why are you trying to make my point look different than it is? I already said it was my personal opinion to see the upgraded Altay as another project. And I clearly stated that the overall Altay project is a mess. Ofc it's a fuckup. Who says else?

I won't answer you if you bring the old Altay to me again.

 

[TR_123456]

Why are you trying to make my point look different than it is? I already said it was my personal opinion to see the upgraded Altay as another project. And I clearly stated that the overall Altay project is a mess. Ofc it's a fuckup. Who says else?

I won't answer you if you bring the old Altay to me again.

Nobody is expecting an answer from you so be cool.

 

[boredaf]

Why are you trying to make my point look different than it is? I already said it was my personal opinion to see the upgraded Altay as another project. And I clearly stated that the overall Altay project is a mess. Ofc it's a fuckup. Who says else?

I won't answer you if you bring the old Altay to me again.

Because you're splitting hairs unnecessarily to deflect blame. There is no old or new Altay, there is a single Altay project that has been mishandled and turned into an embarrassment that led to deaths of our soldiers. One project, one tank and one fuck up.

 

[Zafer]

Türkiye is making the state of the art Altay tank from zero prior experience and zero industrial base now with 100% local input. This is brilliant.