TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[mehmed beg]

The issue is the timelines. British led project may or may not have the sufficient numbers by 2040, Italy too. Apart from those 2 cases, there won't be any 5th or 6th generation European plane by then. Or they can field F35s and fall further in technological and combat ready terms.
In their case I would buy F35B . That plane can land anywhere and can take off from anywhere. Can be diapersed. That's huge advantage

 

[Yasar_TR]

In their case I would buy F35B . That plane can land anywhere and can take off from anywhere. Can be diapersed. That's huge advantage

Bro, that is on paper and in advertising propaganda information.
1. If it takes off vertically, its operational range is shortened so much that the whole process becomes almost futile. Increased mechanical complexity, reduced internal payload/fuel capacity, less range/endurance and higher fuel consumption during vertical manoeuvres, making it heavier and less capable in weight-limited scenarios.
It already has a disadvantage as it has to carry excess fuel to allow it to land vertically on carriers. To add another disadvantage is not very clever.

2. Operating from non-conformal positions (out in the wilderness or ”dispersed” as you say) will mean a lot of support equipment will have to be present in take off and landing sites. This causes logistical nightmares.
Your airforce land crews will have to be trained accordingly.
To a small and spread apart individual or a few units, you will have to provide the same number of equipment and ground crew that you would for a squadron or two in base.

 

[Samba]

Anyone with an update on KAAN P1 and first flight date?

 

[cr33pt3d]

Anyone with an update on KAAN P1 and first flight date?

Stated for April 26, by now the first P1 must have been assembled or close to be finished, i mean if the first flight is for april, they first have to make some ground tests before. this is just guessing. can't wait to see it with the new front section design .

 

[Spitfire9]

The issue is the timelines. British led project may or may not have the sufficient numbers by 2040, Italy too. Apart from those 2 cases, there won't be any 5th or 6th generation European plane by then. Or they can field F35s and fall further in technological and combat ready terms.
In their case I would buy F35B . That plane can land anywhere and can take off from anywhere. Can be diapersed. That's huge advantage

The groundwork to proceed with GCAP has been done. Development company Edgewing was set up mid-2025. While I have no special insight into the programme, as far as I know GCAP is ready to launch into full scale development.

Japan is very keen on an aircraft to enter service 2035 to allow it to start to retire its F-2 fleet. UK has committed to increasing defence spending to 2.7% of GDP by 2027 with a target of 3.0% of GDP by 2030.

Should FCAS fail to progress, Germany may become a GCAP customer. Saudi Arabia has shown strong interest in the aircraft. Subject to neither ITAR nor CAATSA, the aircraft should be available to countries denied access to F-35. Some Gulf states may procure it. Expected to offer exceptional range, the aircraft may be well suited to Australia and Canada's needs.

All in all I would say the factors to warrant a GCAP go ahead exist. I guess that will happen in 2026 to ensure Japan's timeline can be met. Additionally, US actions in 2025 have provided a political imperative to go ahead.

PS I don't see GCAP as a KAAN competitor. Much more expensive and 6G rather than 5G.

 

[Umigami]

Stated for April 26, by now the first P1 must have been assembled or close to be finished, i mean if the first flight is for april, they first have to make some ground tests before. this is just guessing. can't wait to see it with the new front section design .

In term of design, it won't be much different than P0, right?

 

[Umigami]

Also, is there timeline when Export version with Turkish engine ready?

 

[Pokemonte13]

In term of design, it won't be much different than P0, right?

Well it will be smaller and the engine intakes will be further behind and maybe the vertical stabilizers will change a bit but the biggest change will be in its avionics since P0 was not meant to be fly P1 will have most of his subsystems in place.

 

[Umigami]

Well it will be smaller and the engine intakes will be further behind and maybe the vertical stabilizers will change a bit but the biggest change will be in its avionics since P0 was not meant to be fly P1 will have most of his subsystems in place.

A bit closer to this, huh?

 

[Oublious]

The groundwork to proceed with GCAP has been done. Development company Edgewing was set up mid-2025. While I have no special insight into the programme, as far as I know GCAP is ready to launch into full scale development.

Japan is very keen on an aircraft to enter service 2035 to allow it to start to retire its F-2 fleet. UK has committed to increasing defence spending to 2.7% of GDP by 2027 with a target of 3.0% of GDP by 2030.

Should FCAS fail to progress, Germany may become a GCAP customer. Saudi Arabia has shown strong interest in the aircraft. Subject to neither ITAR nor CAATSA, the aircraft should be available to countries denied access to F-35. Some Gulf states may procure it. Expected to offer exceptional range, the aircraft may be well suited to Australia and Canada's needs.

All in all I would say the factors to warrant a GCAP go ahead exist. I guess that will happen in 2026 to ensure Japan's timeline can be met. Additionally, US actions in 2025 have provided a political imperative to go ahead.

PS I don't see GCAP as a KAAN competitor. Much more expensive and 6G rather than 5G.

everything on paper yes...

 

[Holikarbon]

Well it will be smaller and the engine intakes will be further behind and maybe the vertical stabilizers will change a bit but the biggest change will be in its avionics since P0 was not meant to be fly P1 will have most of his subsystems in place.

When will we see the first real photo? Is it possible before April?

 

[Pokemonte13]

Hard to say TAI usually isn’t that good with dates but we should see it at the latest in may and the earliest in early march

 

[Spitfire9]

everything on paper yes...

I think that the responsibilities of the different partners are clear. Very little info about the GCAP aircraft design has been released - dimensions, weight, payload, range, speed, engine thrust etc have not been revealed.

 

[Oublious]

I think that the responsibilities of the different partners are clear. Very little info about the GCAP aircraft design has been released - dimensions, weight, payload, range, speed, engine thrust etc have not been revealed.

Ther is nothing because ther is nothing on paper yet, they are still evulating. Thats the problem with partners joining and forcing ther needs to each other. Maybe ther will be no GCAP like Temptest is scrapped.

 

[Spitfire9]

Ther is nothing because ther is nothing on paper yet, they are still evulating. Thats the problem with partners joining and forcing ther needs to each other. Maybe ther will be no GCAP like Temptest is scrapped.

In July the GCAP partner governments agreed to try to make a contract with Edgewing by the end of 2025. There has been no announcement of this. Could be the partners cannot reach agreement and never will. Could be the partners cannot reach agreement yet. Could be the partner countries are in agreement but have yet to finalise a contract with Edgewing.

PS This is the KAAN thread so, no offence intended, I won't discuss GCAP more here except where it relates to KAAN.

 

[Zafer]

A talk about the Russian Su-57 with relevance to our Kaan, how they want to export it and all. If we don't paint the map somebody else will.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

When will they finally present the next prototype? It can't be rocket science.
Almost a year has passed now; they need to get a move on.
We need 50-60x Ugraded F-16 Özgur II, 24x Eurofighter and 10x TAI KAAN & Kizilelma + Anka 3 Aircraft (Total 30) by 2029/30 to send a signal to the outside world (Greece/Israel und Russia).

 

[Zafer]

Lightning fast delivery of J35E to Pakistan, within months !? I have a map to update.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2011728530309333059

 

[AlperTunga]

When will they finally present the next prototype? It can't be rocket science.
Almost a year has passed now; they need to get a move on.
We need 50-60x Ugraded F-16 Özgur II, 24x Eurofighter and 10x TAI KAAN & Kizilelma + Anka 3 Aircraft (Total 30) by 2029/30 to send a signal to the outside world (Greece/Israel und Russia).

This should be at a minimum, and I'd like to challenge the number 50-60 F16 ÖZGÜR II. If our MURAD radar and other electronics, sensors etc. have reached a certain maturity such that we can begin integrating them serially to our F16s, what is preventing us to integrate them to 200 F16s? Is it a cost issue? Once you have designed and tested the radar, producing it should not cost much in terms of material. I assume 80% of the cost is R&D? If we promise ASELSAN we will be buying hundreds of them for F16, Kizilelma, ANKA and later also for KAAN of course, can we not get a good price, at least initially till KAAN production begins? If it is rather a production issue, why can we not use more materials, build a larger production facility, employ and train more people in the next years to increase production capacity? do we always need to think serially and react to needs instead of planning and arranging this things in advance? Finally, is it because we need to have permissions from L&M for different versions of F16? There is a lot of speculative info here.

TO SUM UP: If we have currently 230 F16s and we have the technology to upgrade them to ÖZGÜR II, we need to upgrade ALL (even if their remaining life is 10 years) ASAP. Anything else is not responsible behavior.

 

[Pete Mitchell Maverick]

The first flight of the P1 prototype is scheduled for April, but we haven't seen any information, statements, or indications from TUSAŞ regarding KAAN recently. I hope there won't be any problems or delays.