Live Conflict Ukraine-Russia War

[Deliorman]

UFOs are attacking Moscow these days it seems… damn NATO and their alien technologies.

 

[Soldier30]

Footage of a Russian BM-35 Italmas kamikaze drone striking a Ukrainian drone control center located in a residential building. The video was filmed in the village of Annovka on the northeastern outskirts of Dobropillia. The drone operators were spotted during the timely return of the Ukrainian hexacopter. Judging by the force of the explosion, the building also housed a drone storage facility. As a result of the drone strike, the Ukrainian building was completely destroyed, as shown at the end of the video.

 

[Relic]

The Netherlands is financing the production of 700 cruise missile / drone hybrid munitions for Ukraine called "Ruta". They will be produced in the Netherlands and are ground-container launched, with speeds that reach upwards of 950kmph.

Ruta comes in block 1, 2 and 3 variants with ranges between 300 KM and 2000 KM depending on the variant.

Another mid / long range strike weapons for Ukraine.

Netherlands Will Fund Production of New Ruta Rockets for Ukraine

The Netherlands will fund the production of Ruta rockets for Ukraine on its own territory. In total, the aid package covers approximately 700 rockets.Ukrainian Defense Minister Mykhailo Fedorov announced the […]

militarnyi.com

 

[Oublious]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2067593271770038585

A First: Turkey Exports Fuel to Russia! Ukraine's intense unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) attacks on Russian refineries have caused supply shortages in the country's domestic market. According to information obtained by Haber Denizde, Russia has imported fuel from Turkey for the first time in its history. The first MR tanker, with a capacity of 30,000 dwt and loaded with gasoline, has set out for this purpose; it is currently in the Black Sea and heading toward the Novorossiysk Port.

 

[contricusc]

And before you accuse me of wanting to throw Ukraine under the bus (because I can already see it), I never said that, what I say is that a deal should be made even if it means sacrificing land and giving in to some Russian demands, there should be a clear plan and agreement that no further military action can be possible in the future, DONE... but the war should end, its no good for us, can't you understand that?

No deal should be made that sacrifices land. Russia is losing the war, and for Europe it costs almost nothing to keep going. It can actually be seen as beneficial, because it is used as a testing ground for European made weapons. The European MIC needs to be ramped up, so that Europe can decouple from US dependency on weapons, and the war in Ukraine serves as the perfect excuse for more military soending, while offering a unique opportunity for European companies to test their new hardware in direct combat.

There is no reason for Europe to stop now, and the good news is that it won’t. Now that Europe managed to support Ukraine even without US help, and the battle is turning in Ukraine’s favor, it would be a grave mistake to stop.

European arms industry is ramping up production of everything, and the war in Ukraine provides the market for those products. If the products are immediately donated to Ukraine and used, it creates a continuous demand that helps the companies extend production with firm purchase commitments. This is a re-industrialization chance for Europe that should not be missed.

Once Europe launches more surveilance and communications satellites to replace the intelligence dependence on the US, it would become self sufficient in supporting Ukraine and ensure that Russia loses the war regardless of what the White House wants. We are not far from that moment.

As much as Russia supporters hope that the war will suddenly stop when Russia starts burning, it won’t be that way. The war will end only when Russia withdraws from all the occupied territories, and that will take a lot of time, and a pre requisite for that is the complete collapse of the Russian economy and regime. A few more years of war are almost a certainty at this point.

 

[Spitfire9]

Elvira, governor of the central bank, is back in action, on June 19 announcing the new 14.25% bank rate. An island of competence floating in a sea of incompetence! I think she is Russia's biggest asset in the struggle to manage and mitigate the effects of Putin spending massively on a massively stupid war.

 

[Spitfire9]

No deal should be made that sacrifices land. Russia is losing the war, and for Europe it costs almost nothing to keep going. It can actually be seen as beneficial, because it is used as a testing ground for European made weapons. The European MIC needs to be ramped up, so that Europe can decouple from US dependency on weapons, and the war in Ukraine serves as the perfect excuse for more military soending, while offering a unique opportunity for European companies to test their new hardware in direct combat.

There is no reason for Europe to stop now, and the good news is that it won’t. Now that Europe managed to support Ukraine even without US help, and the battle is turning in Ukraine’s favor, it would be a grave mistake to stop.

European arms industry is ramping up production of everything, and the war in Ukraine provides the market for those products. If the products are immediately donated to Ukraine and used, it creates a continuous demand that helps the companies extend production with firm purchase commitments. This is a re-industrialization chance for Europe that should not be missed.

Once Europe launches more surveilance and communications satellites to replace the intelligence dependence on the US, it would become self sufficient in supporting Ukraine and ensure that Russia loses the war regardless of what the White House wants. We are not far from that moment.

As much as Russia supporters hope that the war will suddenly stop when Russia starts burning, it won’t be that way. The war will end only when Russia withdraws from all the occupied territories, and that will take a lot of time, and a pre requisite for that is the complete collapse of the Russian economy and regime. A few more years of war are almost a certainty at this point.

Withdraw from the Donbas? I imagine that most people in the area would rather not be part of Ukraine. If Ukraine were to take it over, wouldn't it become another Palestine with the people living in the 'occupied territory' in a permanent state of low level conflict with the 'occupier'?

 

[contricusc]

Withdraw from the Donbas? I imagine that most people in the area would rather not be part of Ukraine. If Ukraine were to take it over, wouldn't it become another Palestine with the people living in the 'occupied territory' in a permanent state of low level conflict with the 'occupier'?

And do you think Ukraine cares, after all that happened?

Ukraine wants the territory back. Those who were pro-Ukraine fled to the rest of Ukraine when Russia took over. If Ukraine can take back the land, the pro-Russian population will have to flee to Russia. It’s the same thing.

Once Ukraine feels it has the upoer hand in the war, they will not be willing to concede any territory. And they will have the backing of the European MIC who would lobby for the war to continue, so that they would keep receiving money for the weapons they produce.

Once the European bureaucracy moves into war mode, it would be almost impossible to stop it.

 

[FiReFTW]

No deal should be made that sacrifices land. Russia is losing the war, and for Europe it costs almost nothing to keep going. It can actually be seen as beneficial, because it is used as a testing ground for European made weapons. The European MIC needs to be ramped up, so that Europe can decouple from US dependency on weapons, and the war in Ukraine serves as the perfect excuse for more military soending, while offering a unique opportunity for European companies to test their new hardware in direct combat.

There is no reason for Europe to stop now, and the good news is that it won’t. Now that Europe managed to support Ukraine even without US help, and the battle is turning in Ukraine’s favor, it would be a grave mistake to stop.

European arms industry is ramping up production of everything, and the war in Ukraine provides the market for those products. If the products are immediately donated to Ukraine and used, it creates a continuous demand that helps the companies extend production with firm purchase commitments. This is a re-industrialization chance for Europe that should not be missed.

Once Europe launches more surveilance and communications satellites to replace the intelligence dependence on the US, it would become self sufficient in supporting Ukraine and ensure that Russia loses the war regardless of what the White House wants. We are not far from that moment.

As much as Russia supporters hope that the war will suddenly stop when Russia starts burning, it won’t be that way. The war will end only when Russia withdraws from all the occupied territories, and that will take a lot of time, and a pre requisite for that is the complete collapse of the Russian economy and regime. A few more years of war are almost a certainty at this point.

People like you in high positions is EXACTLY the reason why Europe is going down the drain.

 

[Oublious]

 

[Spitfire9]

People like you in high positions is EXACTLY the reason why Europe is going down the drain.

A big bully grabs some of its smaller neighbour's land in 2014. Europe disapproves but does little to help. The big bully tries to grab the rest of its smaller neighbour's land in 2022. This time Europe decides to help. For the first time the big bully is confronted by Europe and, now, after 4 years is in deep trouble.

Yes, supporting Ukraine has cost Europe dearly but

1 it won't have a big bully on its doorstep, one that grabbed Ukraine
2 the now not so big bully won't feel confident it can grab further neighbours' at little cost to itself
3 defending Ukraine against Russian aggression is not a crippling expense to Europe
4 attacking Ukraine is a crippling expense to Russia

Unlike you, I don't see Europe going down the drain. Russia, yes - the data available show that is the direction in which Russia is going.

 

[OPTIMUS]

No deal should be made that sacrifices land. Russia is losing the war, and for Europe it costs almost nothing to keep going. It can actually be seen as beneficial, because it is used as a testing ground for European made weapons. The European MIC needs to be ramped up, so that Europe can decouple from US dependency on weapons, and the war in Ukraine serves as the perfect excuse for more military soending, while offering a unique opportunity for European companies to test their new hardware in direct combat.

There is no reason for Europe to stop now, and the good news is that it won’t. Now that Europe managed to support Ukraine even without US help, and the battle is turning in Ukraine’s favor, it would be a grave mistake to stop.

European arms industry is ramping up production of everything, and the war in Ukraine provides the market for those products. If the products are immediately donated to Ukraine and used, it creates a continuous demand that helps the companies extend production with firm purchase commitments. This is a re-industrialization chance for Europe that should not be missed.

Once Europe launches more surveilance and communications satellites to replace the intelligence dependence on the US, it would become self sufficient in supporting Ukraine and ensure that Russia loses the war regardless of what the White House wants. We are not far from that moment.

As much as Russia supporters hope that the war will suddenly stop when Russia starts burning, it won’t be that way. The war will end only when Russia withdraws from all the occupied territories, and that will take a lot of time, and a pre requisite for that is the complete collapse of the Russian economy and regime. A few more years of war are almost a certainty at this point.

You're dreaming big.

The idea that Europe will militarily and in terms of intelligence break away from the Americans will never happen.

Maybe Europe has ramped up its defense capabilities, but who the heck is going to use all that hardware?? Europe's citizens? Definitely not. Check how willing Europeans are to die in a war. They would emigrate en masse...

Militarily, economically, and in intelligence, Europe is a vassal state of the USA.

If the USA wants, you can't even make a purchase, transfer money, or even fill up your tank.

What is Europe doing with its shady diplomacy?

I'll bring you back down to Planet Earth one last time.

Believe me, Europeans will be the first to put the Greeks, Bulgarians, and Cypriots on the sales list to save their own asses.

That's where the Turks come into play. Just wait.

 

[Spitfire9]

You're dreaming big.

The idea that Europe will militarily and in terms of intelligence break away from the Americans will never happen.

Maybe Europe has ramped up its defense capabilities, but who the heck is going to use all that hardware?? Europe's citizens? Definitely not. Check how willing Europeans are to die in a war. They would emigrate en masse...

Militarily, economically, and in intelligence, Europe is a vassal state of the USA.

If the USA wants, you can't even make a purchase, transfer money, or even fill up your tank.

What is Europe doing with its shady diplomacy?

I'll bring you back down to Planet Earth one last time.

Believe me, Europeans will be the first to put the Greeks, Bulgarians, and Cypriots on the sales list to save their own asses.

That's where the Turks come into play. Just wait.

I'm back down on planet Earth. Turkiye is going to conquer Greece, Bulgaria and Cyprus?

What have you been smoking?

 

[OPTIMUS]

I'm back down on planet Earth. Turkiye is going to conquer Greece, Bulgaria and Cyprus.

What have you been smoking?

I'm back down on planet Earth. Turkiye is going to conquer Greece, Bulgaria and Cyprus?

What have you been smoking?

First, my post was addressed to Contricusc@.

Secondly, it’s nice that you are Earth. I can see that in your post too. I read your posts very carefully.

Third, nowhere in my post does it say that the Turks want to conquer Cyprus, Bulgaria, and Greece. That’s your thought. That’s not how things work. One should only know which European countries will have claims on the territories of these three states. Believe me, they are not few.

 

[Spitfire9]

Third, nowhere in my post does it say that the Turks want to conquer Cyprus, Bulgaria, and Greece. That’s your thought.

Quite true.

You did somewhat suggest that at some point 'the Turks' would 'sort out' (my words) those countries, though.

 

[OPTIMUS]

Quite true.

You did somewhat suggest that at some point 'the Turks' would 'sort out' (my words) those countries, though.

Spitfire9@,

I have no idea how you understand things when you read what's written.

I just wrote, "here's where the Turks come into play."

The problem is, the Turks don't want to play there. They want to "take care of things," as you nicely put it, thousands of kilometers away. For that, the Turks first need Egypt, then Somalia. Somalia is more important, indeed, for the Turks.

The Turks want to be brought into play through a country where the Greeks keep their fears alive. And a certain state exploits that. And this certain state wants to mess with the Turks in Somalia and Sudan, and for that, it uses the UAE.

The Turks are very concerned that Zelensky will order the sinking of a ship operating under the Turkish flag by the "Ukrainian Army." In that case, Article 5 would have to be applied, which would make things very complex. Will Zelensky give this order to the Ukrainian Army? Yes, he will. Whether the Ukrainian Army will carry out the order...? We're not sure about that.

If the Turks had a major objective in the Mediterranean basin, they would have long since raised objections regarding French troops in Cyprus. As for that particular state—it is considered a Christian-Catholic affair. The Turks see no issue there. We will see more Christian-Catholic troops in Cyprus in the coming years.

All the ships being built for the Turkish Navy and for a few states in the region tell us that there is already a clear understanding of what the Turks intend to do. Only one state is acting as a disruptive force. That matter is being dealt with, too.

The question one has to ask oneself is:

Why are air defense systems being deployed to Turkey?
And they are there to stay, as this constitutes a permanent operational measure—specifically involving NATO states. There are currently four systems: two Italian, one Spanish, and one German (I am leaving the American systems out of the equation for now).

Why is the Turkish Navy suddenly operating with large naval formations in deep-water environments? Many forum members have wondered what business the Turks have participating in NATO exercises in Nordic and Baltic waters with such a large number of ships. As far as I know, the Turkish vessels were the only ones able to maintain full operational capability in very adverse weather conditions, whereas all other NATO ships operated under limitations.

The question to ask is "What is going on?"—not "What business do the Turks have there?"

 

[FiReFTW]

A big bully grabs some of its smaller neighbour's land in 2014. Europe disapproves but does little to help. The big bully tries to grab the rest of its smaller neighbour's land in 2022. This time Europe decides to help. For the first time the big bully is confronted by Europe and, now, after 4 years is in deep trouble.

Yes, supporting Ukraine has cost Europe dearly but

1 it won't have a big bully on its doorstep, one that grabbed Ukraine
2 the now not so big bully won't feel confident it can grab further neighbours' at little cost to itself
3 defending Ukraine against Russian aggression is not a crippling expense to Europe
4 attacking Ukraine is a crippling expense to Russia

Unlike you, I don't see Europe going down the drain. Russia, yes - the data available show that is the direction in which Russia is going.

Even if all the 4 points you say are true its done, Europe made its point, Russia got a bloody nose, time to pack up and end this once and for all.

You said it yourself, this is clearly hurting Europe, so why keep hurting? Europe should take care of its own people and its own problems without willingly hurting itself (which it has done MULTIPLE times in the past 20-30 years, many of which has nothing to do with Russia even).

Surely you don't think that keeping on this path forever is a good idea for Europe, you can't possibly be that stubborn or ignorant right?
Russia won't back down here, this war can go on for 10 more years, maybe more, you know how many billions and billions of euros are going to go down the drain?

Its time to settle this war once and for all and put an end to it, get it over with ASAP, and then start looking for our own interests when it comes to economy and start doing some rapid changes and solutions.

You are quite blind if you don't see that Europe is in big trouble if we don't do some big things soon, we have a whole lot of issues and problems that will get worse and worse in the next couple of decades, its now or never.

 

[OPTIMUS]

Europe is playing the overtime periods. The Turks are the referees. But it’s the Americans who hold the whistles!

 

[Spitfire9]

You said it yourself, this is clearly hurting Europe, so why keep hurting? Europe should take care of its own people and its own problems without willingly hurting itself (which it has done MULTIPLE times in the past 20-30 years, many of which has nothing to do with Russia even).

Surely you don't think that keeping on this path forever is a good idea for Europe, you can't possibly be that stubborn or ignorant right?

Russia's attack has damaged the world economically. Imagine Russian aggression had been successful and Russia had taken over Ukraine. Don't you think Putin would not be encouraged to plan to take over parts or all of other neighbouring countries to the west of Russia?

The situation has changed considerably in the last couple of years. Weapons supplied to Ukraine no longer come with the proviso that they cannot be used to attack Russia. Ukraine has built a weapons industry with which to attack Russia with drones and missiles. Those weapons are causing serious damage to Russia.

Russia has been slowly destroying itself economically and financially. You query Europe staying on the path it is on forever. To me that is just about inconceivable since Russia staying in one piece forever economically and financially is just about inconceivable.

Who is the stubborn one here? Putin has been stubbornly continuing to prosecute a war where the prospects of defeating Ukraine - prospects that held some credibility in 2022 - have long disappeared. All that is left to Russia is to continue inflicting damage on Ukraine - but receiving continuous severe damage to itself - until the money runs out.

So I hope that desperate, fixated, obsessed Putin carries on with his war until he has comprehensively devastated his country. IMO he foolishly annexed Kerson and Zaporitzia under Russian law and is now stuck with not being able to stop the war without leaving those 'parts of Russia' in enemy hands. IIRC he cannot do that in Russian law, so he's condemned himself to fighting to the bitter end.