TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Pokemonte13]

The

This is excellent news about the F110 engines moving forward. This covers one of the most fragile points in all of Turkish defense industry projects and carries the program until 2032-2033 when the indigenous engine is scheduled to be ready. It seems the usual ethnic lobbies in the Congress won't be able to get the majority required to block the process and it will move forward. I hope the deliveries happen with a reasonable timeline.

It's a bit concerning, though, what they said about an agreement about S-400 being done. We have long had a good policy of keeping the S-400 and insisting on F-35s. I hope that continues.

It’s a law specifically designed to target countries/governments that buy Russian military hardware. Even if they wanted they couldn’t and it’s not like s400 is really that important to our air defence too few systems and not enough performance (lacks an iff etc). What we could learn about the f35 is much higher

 

[godel44]

The

It’s a law specifically designed to target countries/governments that buy Russian military hardware. Even if they wanted they couldn’t and it’s not like s400 is really that important to our air defence too few systems and not enough performance (lacks an iff etc). What we could learn about the f35 is much higher

I don’t disagree. The S-400 is not very useful for us and the CAATSA provisions require them to certify it has been removed irretrievably.

 

[Pete Mitchell Maverick]

I expect the S-400 issue to be discussed at the NATO Summit in Ankara and for significant progress to be made.


The fact is that we have not benefited from the S-400s at all; on the contrary, they have caused us considerable harm. I wonder who made this decision, why it was made, and what kind of reasoning led us to it.

 

[Zafer]

I expect the S-400 issue to be discussed at the NATO Summit in Ankara and for significant progress to be made.


The fact is that we have not benefited from the S-400s at all; on the contrary, they have caused us considerable harm. I wonder who made this decision, why it was made, and what kind of reasoning led us to it.

It saved us from spending our money on F35 instead of the Kaan. Not only money but the unreliability trap. We only want a small number of F35 for NATO operations. The seemingly unwanted outcome actually suits us very well.

 

[Pete Mitchell Maverick]

It saved us from spending our money on F35 instead of the Kaan. Not only money but the unreliability trap. We only want a small number of F35 for NATO operations. The seemingly unwanted outcome actually suits us very well.

I'm not a big fan of the F-35, but no matter what, our enemies already have this aircraft in their inventory, and another one will acquire it soon. For that reason, I believe that owning 2-3 squadrons of F-35s would be to our advantage rather than having none at all.

But the real problem, as I said, is the S-400s. Buying them was a huge mistake, and I'm curious what kind of logic pushed us to acquire systems that we've never used, cannot use, and are now desperately trying to get rid of. The current government is working right now to somehow dispose of this system and acquire a few squadrons of F-35s in return.

 

[Zafer]

I'm not a big fan of the F-35, but no matter what, our enemies already have this aircraft in their inventory, and another one will acquire it soon. For that reason, I believe that owning 2-3 squadrons of F-35s would be to our advantage rather than having none at all.

But the real problem, as I said, is the S-400s. Buying them was a huge mistake, and I'm curious what kind of logic pushed us to acquire systems that we've never used, cannot use, and are now desperately trying to get rid of. The current government is working right now to somehow dispose of this system and acquire a few squadrons of F-35s in return.

No they are not trying to dispose of them they are trying to get the other side to disregard their existence. Our enemies have the fighter and can use them but we can have them and not be able to use them which puts us to a losing position where we could have as many Kaan, even more instead.

I would spend all the money on Kaan development along with its engine and roll them out in 2029 no matter how mature the engine along with the Block 1 and 2. So by 2031 I would have 100 Kaan in the fleet which I think is more likely than not. With the supply chain problems no one is guarantied to supply you with what you need even if they wanted to. So we need to make multiple paths to Kaan engines like using different materials resulting in different qualities of engines. Even the poorer quality varieties will be better than a foreign engine.

 

[dBSPL]

Have the 6 F-35s been paid for? Yes. Then efforts should continue to either deliver these aircraft or compensate for the loss by delivering the same number of aircraft from current production blocks. Even if these aircraft are used in a mixed fleet within NATO missions, they can be very useful for tactical training; we can even use them as red-flag aircraft, and indigenous systems can be tested against them technically and tactically.

Beyond that, I believe the main condition for a meaningful order size (max 2 fleets A, 1 fleet B) is ensuring some kind of return on industrial participation. If it won't contribute to the Turkish defense industry anymore (we thank them for their initial contributions), we should continue to focus resources on KAAN and unmanned programs.

 

[Saithan]

I'm not a big fan of the F-35, but no matter what, our enemies already have this aircraft in their inventory, and another one will acquire it soon. For that reason, I believe that owning 2-3 squadrons of F-35s would be to our advantage rather than having none at all.

But the real problem, as I said, is the S-400s. Buying them was a huge mistake, and I'm curious what kind of logic pushed us to acquire systems that we've never used, cannot use, and are now desperately trying to get rid of. The current government is working right now to somehow dispose of this system and acquire a few squadrons of F-35s in return.

Current government is the same that made the decision in the past. No logic at all.

 

[Pokemonte13]

Current government is the same that made the decision in the past. No logic at all.

the reasoning behind s400 was political to kinda show the americans we can do what we want(we are not dependent on you) the military didn't want it. A lot has changed since then

 

[mehmed beg]

I don't know how much of mistake the purchase of S400 was. What mid to long range air defence system Turkiye had till Super came along?
All the event around the country and without any viable air defences?
They practically forced Turkiye into buying S400.
F35 , if it is received quickly, can help development of KAAN, quicker development of air tactics and if F35Bs are acquired, then Anladolu or future LHD can be more effective and in the case of the war , the assets can be spread around the country.
But, considering the availability, costs , strings attached and money needed, 2 squadrons aren't that much of difference. If Turkey wasn't excluded in the production of the planes and wasn't forced to spend for the " alternatives" then this project could have been very useful. All of this is designed to take the money away from KAAN project

 

[Samba]

Back then we insisted on PAC-3 and technology transfer. The US did not accept it at all.... They tried to impose on us whatever they want. We on the other hand was eager to proove ourselves, so we said, "ok. if i cannot get what i want from a NATO ally, then i can buy whatever i want form whomever i want." Then US said "Oh.. you say so...."

This is why we are at this point today.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Back then we insisted on PAC-3 and technology transfer. The US did not accept it at all.... They tried to impose on us whatever they want. We on the other hand was eager to proove ourselves, so we said, "ok. if i cannot get what i want from a NATO ally, then i can buy whatever i want form whomever i want." Then US said "Oh.. you say so...."

This is why we are at this point today.

So why did we back down from the Chinese deal after the USA made threats about sanctioning all companies that could potentially have been involved?

 

[alfonsvlora]

the reasoning behind s400 was political to kinda show the americans we can do what we want(we are not dependent on you) the military didn't want it. A lot has changed since then

It's good that the Turkish army now knows its place! Look at the most powerful countries in the world. No army dares to bypass the political, geopolitical or geostrategic decisions of its country. On the contrary, it becomes a powerful force on the ground if there are failures at the negotiating table... I think we all remember: ... It was 1976. Greece withdrew from the NATO treaty in protest, but in 1978 it asked to rejoin. Turkey vetoed it for two years in a row. What happened next? A coup in Turkey in 1980, the government fell! Three months later, the veto against Greece was lifted!... It was a tragedy for Turkish geopolitics, the consequences of which are still felt today...

 

[GoatsMilk]

It's good that the Turkish army now knows its place! Look at the most powerful countries in the world. No army dares to bypass the political, geopolitical or geostrategic decisions of its country. On the contrary, it becomes a powerful force on the ground if there are failures at the negotiating table... I think we all remember: ... It was 1976. Greece withdrew from the NATO treaty in protest, but in 1978 it asked to rejoin. Turkey vetoed it for two years in a row. What happened next? A coup in Turkey in 1980, the government fell! Three months later, the veto against Greece was lifted!... It was a tragedy for Turkish geopolitics, the consequences of which are still felt today...

The Russians certainly rewarded the Turkish army soon after that purchase. A few years later they would directly bomb and kill about 40 Turkish troops in idlib. They would then restrict the airspace to Turkiye to send an air ambulance. When the ambulances on the ground got there the Russians would then bomb them too. Isreali/zionist style levels of inhumanity.

s400 was dumb politics. They were trapped in Syria with both the USA and Russia threatening them. The logic they used is if we buy from Russia they will show us favour and the Americans seeing us move towards russia would pull back on their hostility towards us and their support of the PKK.

What actually happened. The s400 gave the americans more reason to be hostile towards us, the Russians seeing that our relationship with the USA became weaker felt much stronger to then screw us harder.

Still to this day s400 has not benefited Turkiye, to the contrary the same people who brought it are desperately looking for ways out of the deal. Which is also stupid politics because your basically now telling the bully if you f'k me hard, ill bend over and take and then come back wanting more.