Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[trishna_amrta]

Aside from any political push or preferences from anyone, I personally really like the 30FFM concept. It's not only about the specs but also about sending a few clear messages.

By the way, isn't this the first "offensive" military products that Japan offers to any country? I know they have already sold or donated some patrol / coast guard ships as well as some radars to Philippines and to few other countries but not to such extent.

It was the result of President Jokowi "curhat" to Premier Suga during his visit regarding the situation in Natuna Sea

 

[Madokafc]

If I recall correctly Babcock is involved in the IH project which mean it will be derivation of the Arrowhead 140 design rather than derivation of the original IH design. And also I recall it's already at preliminary contract (pls correct me if I'm mistaken regarding the contract here)

While for 30FFM I also recall it has very PaWaFuLl political push from both President Jokowi himself & mbok Banteng herself. I strongly doubt even our "Mahapatih" can divert / reject those two.

Lol, instead it was Our Prime Minister, Minister of BUMN, Joko Widodo who endorse this one

 

[Gary]

Another Psuedo fregate ?
Without proper VLS capable SAM and proper radar/sonar. Its only on par with PKR, no significan defense capability, moreover standard La'fayette didnt put CIWS on board.

If they do offer La'fayette they should offer more like the Singkek has, efen Singkek boats are considered out of date today.

Am still go with IH or 30 FFM

Even both of them seem only be installed with. 16 vls, an ironical way.

we need more hulls. the LaFayette are good enough. we could add the armaments onboard during refit.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Our Prime Minister,

HUSH.. don't call him Prime Minister, because we don't have any Prime Minister (its foreign / western concept) It's Mahapatih, which sound more inline with "Kearifan lokal"

 

[FPXAllen]

It was the result of President Jokowi "curhat" to Premier Suga during his visit regarding the situation in Natuna Sea

• Jokowi: Bruh, we're having difficulties to prevent Chinese ships from illegally entering our EEZ.
• Suga: Say no more, fam. *Puts FFM30 model on the table*.

I was surprised when I read the news about this back then which, to me, seems like Japan hold nothing back by offering their newest frigate / destroyer design. Of course, they already knew that we're already have some other deals like IH frigates so they might as well go all out in this regard.

That, and also probably because they also competing against SK that already has a lot of their footprints in our defense industries.

Seru!

 

[trishna_amrta]

• Jokowi: Bruh, we're having difficulties to prevent Chinese ships from illegally entering our EEZ.
• Suga: Say no more, fam. *Puts FFM30 model on the table*.

I was surprised when I read the news about this back then which, to me, seems like Japan hold nothing back by offering their newest frigate / destroyer design. Of course, they already knew that we're already have some other deals like IH frigates so they might as well go all out in this regard.

That, and also probably because they also competing against SK that already has a lot of their footprints in our defense industries.

Seru!

What I like about working with the Japanese is we have very similar cultural practice & value. Thus, both side already know HOW to talk to one another. Not to mention we have decades of experience doing business with them. Furthermore, the Japanese doesn't have a sense of racial supremacy over others (unlike China, Korea, or the western world)

 

[Van Kravchenko]

If I recall correctly Babcock is involved in the IH project which mean it will be derivation of the Arrowhead 140 design rather than derivation of the original IH design. And also I recall it's already at preliminary contract (pls correct me if I'm mistaken regarding the contract here)

While for 30FFM I also recall it has very PaWaFuLl political push from both President Jokowi himself & mbok Banteng herself. I strongly doubt even our "Mahapatih" can divert / reject those two.

Does our mahapatih still have power today ? Seriously am asking, since the less appearance of him in media noawadays.

Regarding to the contract, if my brain serve me well, am afraid that there's not yet sign. Only Representation of Japanese that have visit our SOE shipyard.

Surely that 30 FFM boom on media give me a tremor, a shock that come from the country that never sale its armament before, and would eye us as very potential customer (i mean, where's our money to pay it?).
If we go with Babcock arrowhead frigate, i thought its only on par with PKR capability, since its main role is as complementary ship for type 26 frigate.

About La'fayette midlife upgrade, the last news that i read were they would be installed Aster 15 capable VLS, thos make me wonder wich part that would be surgery to make room for the VLS.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Does our mahapatih still have power today ? Seriously am asking, since the less appearance of him in media noawadays.

dang... good point. I haven't paid much attention to it. You're right, haven't seen him in the media lately. I wonder about it myself.

Surely that 30 FFM boom on media give me a tremor, a shock that come from the country that never sale its armament before, and would eye us as very potential customer (i mean, where's our money to pay it?).

I believe we will be paying the Japanese by Japanese credit line of course along with facilitating them for more investment opportunity (most likely easing on some regulations & tax) which is actually good for us. Win - Win solution.

DIf we go with Babcock arrowhead frigate, i thought its only on par with PKR capability, since its main role is as complementary ship for type 26 frigate.

Arrowhead 140 is a more capable & flexible platform. For example the landing pad could accommodate Chinook size helo. Furthermore, just like the Type 31 its role isn't the same such as Burke class. Think of it as "Escort on steroid" rather than theatre AAW such as the Burke class. And by "escort" I'm referring to escorting our LPD, LST to retake / assaulting Natuna for example

 

[Umigami]

Does our mahapatih still have power today ? Seriously am asking, since the less appearance of him in media noawadays.

dang... good point. I haven't paid much attention to it. You're right, haven't seen him in the media lately. I wonder about it myself.

No power?

Luhut Beraksi Lagi Gaes, Ajak China Bikin RS di RI

Ini merupakan pertemuan di hari kedua kunjungan Menlu China.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

This one make me the most!

Luhut: Presiden Jokowi Ingin China Lanjutkan Proyek Kereta Cepat hingga Surabaya

Presiden Joko Widodo (Jokowi) mengajak Pemerintah China untuk berpartisipasi dalam proyek lanjutan kereta cepat.

amp.kompas.com

 

[Gary]

Plan for 2020-2024, all three ALKI choke points will be allocated shore missile defense system, hope the Marines instead of the Army operate this.

 

[Madokafc]

Plan for 2020-2024, all three ALKI choke points will be allocated shore missile defense system, hope the Marines instead of the Army operate this.

Got a mixed feeling by that, Marines is one unit at Corps level who is under direct Kotama TNI HQ which got the least budget because surely Navy prioritized their Armada fleets and Kolinlamil fleets before anything else. That's very different compared to Kostrad which got priority budget compared to other Units within TNI AD even Kopassus is not that much.

For one to deploying Shorebased AShM system one need comprehensive strength to defense such system, though they are mobile but one need to defense their logistic footprint and personnel base. Marines is had glaring weaknesses in Air Defense, sensoring and surveilance system not to mention their C4ISR...

 

[Gary]

Got a mixed feeling by that, Marines is one unit at Corps level who is under direct Kotama TNI HQ which got the least budget because surely Navy prioritized their Armada fleets and Kolinlamil fleets before anything else. That's very different compared to Kostrad which got priority budget compared to other Units within TNI AD even Kopassus is not that much.

For one to deploying Shorebased AShM system one need comprehensive strength to defense such system, though they are mobile but one need to defense their logistic footprint and personnel base. Marines is had glaring weaknesses in Air Defense, sensoring and surveilance system not to mention their C4ISR...

Can't they coordinate with the Navy C4ISR assets?, I mean they belong to the Navy right?

 

[kooppyyy]

Does our mahapatih still have power today ? Seriously am asking, since the less appearance of him in media noawadays.

LOL, he probably catching up to the Primi Minister/Mahapatih meme and trying to be low-key about it.

About La'fayette midlife upgrade, the last news that i read were they would be installed Aster 15 capable VLS, thos make me wonder wich part that would be surgery to make room for the VLS.

There's still quite a bit of deck space behind the main gun

 

[this is crunch]

LOL, he probably catching up to the Primi Minister/Mahapatih meme and trying to be low-key about it.


There's still quite a bit of deck space behind the main gun

la fayyete class has no sonar or asw capabilities, and no torpedo launcher,

 

[Gary]

wonder how much cost for two 20 years Frigate without sonar and torpedo launcher .

 

[this is crunch]

and i think, if indeed La Fayyete has a green light, it still has to undergo a significant upgrade either in indonesia or in france.

some of her sensor and armament are outdated and not suitable for indonesia
such as
-100mm naval gun
- air search radar (DRBV 15C Sea Tiger Mk2 – (Group, 1996, Detector) Radar, Target Indicator, 2D Surface-to-Air & Surface-to-Surface, Max range: 133.3 km.)
-outdated combat management system
-no hull mounted sonar nor towed array sonar
-no torpedo launcher

 

[Madokafc]

and i think, if indeed La Fayyete has a green light, it still has to undergo a significant upgrade either in indonesia or in france.

some of her sensor and armament are outdated and not suitable for indonesia
such as
-100mm naval gun
- air search radar (DRBV 15C Sea Tiger Mk2 – (Group, 1996, Detector) Radar, Target Indicator, 2D Surface-to-Air & Surface-to-Surface, Max range: 133.3 km.)
-outdated combat management system
-no hull mounted sonar nor towed array sonar
-no torpedo launcher

What you expect from patrol vessel? They are being build and designed with immediate post cold war mindset, in which the Western states is a clear Victor and there is almost no contender to upset the balance of power globally.

As there is no VLS, limited Air defense, no underwater warfare capability. But all in all, it is just suitable for Indonesia need as patrol vessel with some limited fighting capability with very very reasonable operating cost

In the late 1980s, the Marine Nationale started the studies for frigates adapted to low-intensity conflicts in the post–Cold War era. The ships were to serve in the large French exclusive economic zone (EEZ), be adapted to humanitarian operations or low-intensity operations in support of land troops, and replace the aging D'Estienne d'Orves-class avisos, which tended to prove too focused on naval operations and were ill-suited for joint operations.

 

[FPXAllen]

Plan for 2020-2024, all three ALKI choke points will be allocated shore missile defense system, hope the Marines instead of the Army operate this.

The plan is sound. By placing them around the choke points the missiles' range should be sufficient.

But more importantly, we do need a comprehensive hydrophone as well as LR radar networks to support those missiles.

 

[Gary]

the Dutch are going to retire the Karel Dorrman's soon, compared to the LaFayette's it has at least a 76mm main gun (our Navy standard main guns), Thales STIR (our Standard tracking system), VDS, hull mounted sonar, lightweight torp launcher (we could slap a pair each from our retired VS class).

but the issue is it's a CODOG.

 

[Madokafc]

the Dutch are going to retire the Karel Dorrman's soon, compared to the LaFayette's it has at least a 76mm main gun (our Navy standard main guns), Thales STIR (our Standard tracking system), VDS, hull mounted sonar, lightweight torp launcher (we could a pair each from our retired VS class).

but the issue is it's a CODOG.

La Fayette class is CODaD , with the same type of engines used by Sigma class Corvettes or light Frigates