TR Military Operations in Northern Iraq

[Ryder]

Murat Yetkin giving details about the Gara operation.

Rather hear it from a commander rather than a four eyes journalist.

 

[Blackeyes90]

Rather hear it from a commander rather than a four eyes journalist.

That " Four eyed Journalist " is 10 times the man than your garden variety ex-commanders (like Mete Yarar or Abdullah Agar )

 

[Ryder]

That " Four eyed Journalist " is 10 times the man than your garden variety ex-commanders (like Mete Yarar or Abdullah Agar )

At least they served to be honest not that I watch them all the time.

Im not going to learn military science from a Journalist.

It seems I ruffled some feathers.

 

[Blackeyes90]

At least they served to be honest not that I watch them all the time.

Im not going to learn military science from a Journalist.

It seems I ruffled some feathers.

I wont get in a discussion with you. Believe what you want. But Murat Yetkin is one of the best journalist we have in Turkey period. Carry on.

 

[Akhtar]

What discrimination is there in Turkey??

Most of the past that has happened had moved on. Turkey has done much more for Kurds than Iraq, Syria and Iran combined.

Its not like we are using mustard gas and burying them alive like Uncle Saddam did.

Kurds will cry as the victims while they discriminate against Arabs, Iraqi Turkmens and Assyrians.

You dont realise this with the 13 martyrs they are celebrating even rubbing salt into it.

Honestly for us Turks, land is sacred if the Kurds believe we are entitled to give all that due to their dubious bullshit we are the natives crap when Anatolia was conquered and settled by various empires and civilisations. They were literally nomads themselves who come from modern day iran.

I get the feeling you and Goatsmilk are racists without much understanding of emnity between the Turks and Kurds. Or perhaps just very young.

 

[Glass🚬]

The one thing which is very good is his critics on NATO, that again indicates my prediction that we are moving towards the end of NATO.

 

[Ryder]

I get the feeling you and Goatsmilk are racists without much understanding of emnity between the Turks and Kurds. Or perhaps just very young.

Humans are deep down racist. We all belong to a tribe, clan or team whatever it is.

Humans will always be locked in a struggle that determines their tribe comes out on top.

Enmity has always been we are talking about the Middle East here. Not just the Middle East when you have the Caucasus and the Balkans everybody hates each other.

Western Europe hated each other until their struggles boiled down to two world wars.

Kurds dream have always been Kurdistan and its the Turks that stand in their way.

Pkk, barzani, ypg, pyd are all the same shit. They wont stop until they make their dream a reality. Few posts you were talking about autonomy.

Talk about surrendering and throwing in the towel.

 

[Akhtar]

Humans are deep down racist. We all belong to a tribe, clan or team whatever it is.

Humans will always be locked in a struggle that determines their tribe comes out on top.

Enmity has always been we are talking about the Middle East here. Not just the Middle East when you have the Caucasus and the Balkans everybody hates each other.

Western Europe hated each other until their struggles boiled down to two world wars.

Kurds dream have always been Kurdistan and its the Turks that stand in their way.

Pkk, barzani, ypg, pyd are all the same shit. They wont stop until they make their dream a reality. Few posts you were talking about autonomy.

Talk about surrendering and throwing in the towel.

China thinks this way

 

[Ryder]

China thinks this way

Where did you get China from??

 

[Oublious]

That " Four eyed Journalist " is 10 times the man than your garden variety ex-commanders (like Mete Yarar or Abdullah Agar )

Loollll, of course people like Agar and Yarar who have saw action in real life are worthless because of they don't bash. Is like Ismail Saymaz talking as a geographic engineer about earthquake. As long they bash is good.

Youtube turned to a trash with a lot of expert talking about things they don't have knowledge about. Ask saymaz maybe he will tell something we don't now abou the operation.

 

[Akhtar]

Where did you get China from??

Their policy of minorities not existing, China being a monolithic entity where everyone is Chinese.

 

[Ryder]

China thinks this way

I will always support the Uygurs they are our Kin and we have blood, historical ties with them along with religious ties.

Kurds are indo european and are more closer to Iranic peoples.

This is why Turks and Kurds have no relation whatsoever.

 

[Ryder]

Their policy of minorities not existing, China being a monolithic entity where everyone is Chinese.

Turkey has lots of ethnic groups.

Only the loud ones are the Kurds.

We still live with the Ww1 aftermath.

 

[Blackeyes90]

Loollll, of course people like Agar and Yarar who have saw action in real life are worthless because of they don't bash. Is like Ismail Saymaz talking as a geographic engineer about earthquake. As long they bash is good.

Youtube turned to a trash with a lot of expert talking about things they don't have knowledge about. Ask saymaz maybe he will tell something we don't now abou the operation.

Lets continue in private and not derail this thread.

 

[Akhtar]

I will always support the Uygurs they are our Kin and we have blood, historical ties with them along with religious ties.

Kurds are indo european and are more closer to Iranic peoples.

This is why Turks and Kurds have no relation whatsoever.

?

 

[Ryder]

?

You mentioned china so I answered back.

 

[Akhtar]

You mentioned china so I answered back.

There is a lot of history with the Kurds, the last century is only small part of it. But I don't want to derail the thread.

 

[Saithan]

Too much off topic ppl.

 

[Sinan]

Rather hear it from a commander rather than a four eyes journalist.

Please, post it if you have other sources.

 

[Kartal1]

I remember from the books of Osman Pamukoğlu, when they didn't want to alert the terrorists. They would fly with choppers near to 30km within target and from there they would walk on foot to the target area, all done in night time. So, when terrorists awake in the morning they would find themselves surrounded.

Within the start of the operation, i remember that i saw tweets like SOF going to mountain top with choppers and before that Airforce bombing the vicinity....

The endline is we tried to conduct a hostage rescue operation and ended up with the death of all hostages. So, who is going to come out and say to families of martyrs "We sacrificed your son for the greater good"

"pkk killed defenceless people" is not an argument here, this what they do for the last 40 years. Are we accusing terrorists of being terrorists?

Unfortunately that is the case regarding to your words for the greater good for me.

When we come to the style of the operation I can't criticize them on what they have done. The conditions, operation type and level of technical capabilities in which Osman Pamukoglu was active were very different. Those times have been still times of muscles. In our times both the capability of our armed forces and of PKK is on very different level. Nowadays PKK have the lux to operate communication equipment and thermal cameras just like our soldiers.

The terrain and the security measures that PKK have taken there don't allow such type of infiltration as the security of Siyan is centered around important facilities like the cave in which the hostages are kept, ammunition depots and operation rooms. Also such type of terrain is very restricting in terms of possible routes. You can't move freely from where you want. There are known routes from which you can cross. If you try to cross 30km in the way you want without entering the conventional route it can take up to 2 days depending on the route and its number of technical sections. Such technical sections also demand alpine equipment like ropes, carabineers, "nuts", "cams" etc. This is a lot of time consuming initiative that will most probably not pay off.

Another point is the security teams and scouts that are watching the main routes. As I said some of them are equipped with high technology equipment like thermal sights and heavy weapons. According to sources (I think this differs from place to place) you have a large group that is split in small groups occupying areas of interest. The groups have to report every 20 minutes to their commander. The initial air strikes connected to the hostage rescue part of the operation were aimed at neutralizing these control points and scouts. If the operation is aimed at neutralizing terrorists slowly advancing is a go. They can advance, search and destroy (this is what cleaning operations look like). In the nature of the operation type (hostage rescue) it is not possible to do it that way. The 3 main principles I talked before like surprise, violence of action and fire superiority are even more important here. Also we understand from revealed details that the tops around the cave were occupied by terrorists and there were anti-aircraft cannons placed there. The neutralization of all that needs time.

I am looking at the situation from the left, right, down, top I try to see every angle and possibility but other than prisoner exchange I really can't see a realistic way of sorting it out without sacrificing the hostages and also endangering security forces personnel. There is a planned roadmap for operations and I think the time of the Gara state of the process came so they had to act no matter of the result of the operation. I am sure everybody wished that they are now safe with their families but unfortunately we didn't received the good news that Erdogan was going to give us. The problem as you said is how you explain to the families that their relatives were sacrificed for a greater good. A tough situation that I wish never repeat.