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Zapper

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Automatic as in full auto ? That's sounds like fun, not sure how accurate that would be though.

This is the early version of the Dragunov upgrade. Forgot I had this pic.
View attachment 4111
I like this one more. It looks cleaner than the current version. The sight is probably an ELCAN Specter.


They source their sniper scopes from the Schmidt & Bender or KHALES. Scopes are pretty good. I am more worried about the thermal sight. This is their first attempt at making one. We do have good thermal sight makers in India, Tonbo Imaging for example. The Army uses a lot of their thermals.

AK mounted thermals :
View attachment 4112
The AKs don't have a range that allows full exploitation of the potential thermal sights. In fact the rifle & the sights are so mismatched that the Army uses the sight for forward recon rather than shoot-to-kill missions. They can mount the gun, plug in a tablet & do recon while behind cover without having to poke their head out.
View attachment 4119
The SVD Dragunov, one the other hand, does have that range. So back up options for thermal sights are there, incase the new ones don't work right.

Army also uses small helmet mounted mono thermals/NVDs along with rifle mounted lasers :
View attachment 4113

Tonbo also make quad NVDs. They haven't been ordered yet, at least not publicly. I can't wait to see some photos of this in service :
View attachment 4117
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Any idea about the cost of Tonbo's Quad NVDs? The ones by EOTech cost upwards of $45k which doesn't make sense to equip even the special forces except for their elite units like NSG's Phantom Group, Para SF's Para 4&9 or the recently formed AFSOD
 

Zapper

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Amazing weapons, honestly. Maybe not suitable as a main weapon for a whole army, but for special forces they are absolutely marvellous assault rifles.
I mean for special forces. Too expensive for a normal army.
IA's Para SF will be ordering small arms to complement their existing Tavors. The package is reported to include 715 Mk48 light machine guns, 1,050 SCAR-H rifles, 1,400 SCAR-L or HK416s, 110 FN-produced .50 cal Browning heavy machine guns, 400 sets of helmet-mounted night vision goggles, 600 combat free fall parachutes and 100 Barrett M107A1 anti-materiel rifles.

The weapons procurement for Indian armed forces is kinda botched up and cluttered but is more streamlined for the special forces despite using a range of weapons. I'd say NSG>Marcos>Garuds>Para SF in terms of having a streamlined approach of weapons procurement. NSG being the best since they come under MHA instead of MoD while Para SF has close to 10k operators with IA handling their procurements...it's bound to get messy

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/07/03/fn-scar-h-for-indian-special-forces/
 

Gautam

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Any idea about the cost of Tonbo's Quad NVDs? The ones by EOTech cost upwards of $45k which doesn't make sense to equip even the special forces except for their elite units like NSG's Phantom Group, Para SF's Para 4&9 or the recently formed AFSOD
Don't know of the cost, but pretty sure it won't be as expensive as the American NVDs.
 

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DRDO’s Pune facility and Army develop first indigenous 9mm machine pistol ‘Asmi
DRDO's Pune-based facility Armament Research and Development Establishment and the Infantry School designed and developed this weapon in a record time of four months.
By: Express News Service | Pune | Updated: January 14, 2021 8:56:21 pm
The Pune-based facility of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and the Indian Army’s Mhow-based Infantry School have jointly developed India’s first indigenous 9mm machine pistol named ‘Asmi’.
Asmi-1200 (1).jpg

The pistol is likely to have a production cost lower than Rs 50,000 each and has export potential as well. Machine pistols are primarily self-loading versions of pistols which are either fully automatic or can also fire bursts of bullets.
The Asmi machine pistol fires the in-service 9 mm ammunition and has an upper receiver made from aircraft-grade aluminum and lower receiver from carbon fibre. The 3D printing technology has been used in designing and prototyping of various parts, including trigger components which have been made by metal 3D printing.

DRDO’s Pune-based facility Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE) and the Infantry School designed and developed this weapon utilising their respective areas of expertise in a record time of four months. A press statement from the Ministry of Defence read, “The weapon has huge potential in armed forces as a personal weapon for heavy weapon detachments, commanders, tank and aircraft crews, drivers and dispatch riders, radio or radar operators, for closed quarter battles, counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism operations etc. This is also likely to find huge employability with the central and state police organisations, as well as VIP protection duties and policing. The Machine Pistol is likely to have production cost under Rs 50,000 each and has potential for exports. The weapon is aptly named Asmi, which means pride, self respect and also hard work.” The announcement of machine pistol development comes nearly a month after a Carbine jointly developed by the ARDE and the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) completed the final phase of user trials by the Army and was ready ready for induction. The Carbine is not just slated to replace the ageing 9 mm carbine currently in use by the armed forces, but also modernise the armoury of the Central Armed Police Forces and state police forces.
 

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FIRING RANGE, Indian Army troopers in Akhnoor near the Line of Control (LoC)


IN June 2020, as India’s special forces were planning a countermove against China’s heavy military mobilisation in Ladakh, one of their units was facing a critical weapons shortage. Belgian small arms manufacturer FN Herstal (FNH) walked out of a contract to supply some 1,500 small arms to the Special Frontier Force (SFF), a covert paramilitary unit under the cabinet secretariat. The estimated Rs 70 crore contract for P90 carbines and SCAR assault rifles had been under negotiations for three years before being signed in 2019 for delivery within a year.
In late August, the SFF were deployed against the PLA (People’s Liberation Army) in a massive ‘area denial operation’ on the southern banks of the Pangong Lake, without the imported weapons they were supposed to get. An FNH spokesperson declined comment on the failed contract, citing confidentiality.
The incident illustrates the pitfalls of India’s crippling dependence on imported small arms in the face of tensions with both its adversaries, China and Pakistan. What complicates matters is that foreign arms firms are likely to pull the plug on contracts, even in the midst of a national security crisis in the importing country, due to various factors, ranging from their own countries refusing export clearances to human rights issues in the country of sale.
The reasons for FNH’s withdrawal are not known but need to be seen in the light of a similar instance last August, when it suspended small arms deliveries to Saudi Arabia, its biggest client. Saudi Arabia, according to an Al Jazeera report, ‘accounted for 225 million euros (about Rs 1,988 crore) in a 950 million euro (about Rs 8,396 crore) industry in 2018’. The suspension, the report stated, was prompted by a complaint from a human rights group over the Saudi military intervention in Yemen.
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The reputation of an arms firm can override the foreign policy of its country of origin. FNH, for instance, is no Belgian waffle-maker. One of the world’s top five small arms-makers, its weapons are used by the US Special Operations Command. Three of its well-regarded products, a pistol, a medium machine gun and a self-loading rifle, have been serially produced in India’s state-owned ordnance factories for over four decades. FNH, though, has not participated in any of the Indian armed forces’ recent small arms buys. (The firm took part in a 2016 bid to supply a new assault rifle to the Pakistan Army.) Despite these likely hurdles, the Indian Army’s Para Special Forces have taken a circuitous route to acquire FNH weapons, a ‘foreign military sale’ from the US government.
Another leading arms-maker, the German firm Heckler & Koch, whose MP5 submachine guns were used by the NSG (National Security Guard) and MARCOS (Marine Commandos) during the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai, steers clear of the Indian market. The manufacturer says German export laws do not allow supply of weapons to India because of the ‘situation in Jammu and Kashmir’. “In Germany, the federal government must approve the export of small arms. Against the background of the situation in the Kashmir region, the German government has repeatedly indicated to our company that arms deliveries to the Indian MoD (ministry of defence) would not be approved,” an H&K spokesperson said.
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The indigenous road
India has the world’s second-largest army, over 1.2 million-strong, and nearly one million paramilitary forces. The government’s inability to create a modern indigenous small arms industry has created an ironical situation, a country that can send an indigenous spacecraft to Mars is one of the world’s largest importers of small arms, importing hundreds of thousands of assault rifles, pistols and submachine guns each year. The Indian Army alone is slated to import rifles, carbines and light machine guns (LMGs) worth over Rs 3,500 crore to modernise its infantry and special forces.
The army knows how foreign dependency can affect the operational readiness of its frontline units. Around the time of tensions with Pakistan following the 2019 Balakot airstrikes, the army urgently needed spares and replacements for its anti-materiel rifles. These weapons, meant to destroy light armoured vehicles and bunkers, had been purchased from the South African arms firm Denel following the 1999 Kargil War. The supply of spares dried up after Denel was blacklisted by the MoD in 2005. The army discovered to its shock that the firm had gone bankrupt and was unable to supply weapons.
The leverage that producing weapons indigenously offers is well known. During the 1971 Bangladesh War, the Indian government had supplied the ‘Mukti Bahini’ freedom-fighters with rifles and carbines produced by the ordnance factories. The present-day inability of the ordnance factories to replace the army’s frontline infantry weapons, introduced between the 1960s and 1990s, with modern firearms has led to the current deluge of imports by the armed forces, police and paramilitary. The army’s frequent changes in weapons and calibres could be another reason for its own troubles. The world’s largest ground forces have not standardised on a single rifle calibre and are now equipped with a hodgepodge of three major calibres and multiple weapons firing them. Global militaries are acutely conscious of the problems of fielding multiple weapon types with different spares and ammunition. For instance, the US military, which has seen the most conflict since the end of World War II, has changed its rifle calibre and standard-issue rifle just twice in the past 75 years. The in-service M16 is a modified variant of a rifle first introduced in 1965.
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The solution to whimsical foreign suppliers could be what an exasperated defence secretary once suggested in a closed-door meeting with military officials at South Block, import weapons only from four of New Delhi’s strategic partners because they would always ‘find a way’.
This perhaps explains the rush of small arms imports over the past four years, two of them being contracted under emergency fast-track provisions. Last year, the army purchased 72,000 rifles worth Rs 700 crore from US gun-maker SIG Sauer under a fast-track process. The army also wants to import 93,895 carbines from the UAE, a country with no history of arms manufacturing. Waiting in the wings is a contract to produce 750,000 AK-203 rifles in partnership with Russia. Army chief General M.M. Naravane said on January 12 that the contract would be signed soon.
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Questionable imports
Imports lead to more imports. The army has already placed a repeat order of 72,000 rifles with the US manufacturer. Several other acquisitions make no sense because cheaper, indigenous options exist. The AK-203, for instance, is a modernised version of the iconic Russian rifle developed by General Mikhail Kalashnikov in 1947. Other than the wooden ‘furniture’ replaced by polymers and the addition of a Piccatiny rail (for clamping weapon sights) on the dust cover, little has changed.
The MoD already has two weapon factories producing cheaper AK-47 clones (the original unpatented AK-47 rifle has been freely copied across the world), the ‘Trichy Assault Rifle’ at Ordnance Factory Tiruchirappalli and ‘Ghatak’ at Rifle Factory Ishapore, West Bengal. The Trichy Assault Rifle and the Ghatak cost over Rs 50,000 each. The AK-203 will cost Rs 75,000 each because India has to pay Russia licensing fees.

The larger problem, as Lt Gen Sanjay Kulkarni, former director general-Infantry, says, is that all stakeholders, users, designers and producers, work in silos. Gen. Kulkarni was part of a 2016 Ordnance Factory Board (OFB)-army collaboration, which developed the INSAS 1C, the most improved variant of the 1980s’ rifle. The weapon was shelved after the army changed its requirements.
The road to imports is littered with carcasses of promising indigenous weapon prototypes. In 2020, the Joint Venture Protective Carbine (JVPC), a collaborative effort of DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) and OFB, became the first such Indian designed and produced weapon to pass army trials. It has yet to get orders from the army. The MoD threw open the small arms sector to private players in 2005. A handful of private manufacturers are in the fray, mostly in partnership with global arms-makers, but are yet to bag any orders. Interestingly, only one major small arms calibre, assault rifles in the 7.62x39 mm calibre (the AK-47 calibre), has so far been placed on the MoD’s negative list, prohibiting their import after December 2021. This, as worried indigenous manufacturers point out, means all other calibres can continue to be imported.
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Supporting indigenous weapons with orders brings innovation. Ordnance Factory Tiruchirappalli used the experience gained from supplying around 15,000 Trichy Assault Rifles to the Union home ministry and state police units to produce a breakthrough compact AK-47 carbine last year. The shadow of the INSAS rifle, dogged by quality and reliability issues in its service life, though, continues to loom over OFB projects.
Senior army officials say most OFB products have failed the army’s stringent trials while all imported weapons had passed trials and were the lowest bidders. Imports, though, are only a short-term solution to immediate operational needs. The recent import of 16,447 LMGs from Israel is a case in point, say the officials. A larger order for 30,000 LMGs will be placed with Indian industry.
Not just quality and reliability, lack of innovation is another concern with OFB products. It took a serving Indian Army officer from the Infantry School, Lt Col Prasad Bansod, to recently design in-house the replacement for the OFB-produced World War II-era 9 mm Sterling submachine gun.
The trust deficit explains why India’s small arms units, among the world’s largest, are starved of fresh orders, with infrastructure established over decades lying idle. Three ordnance factories in Ishapore, Trichy and Kanpur, capable of producing nearly 100,000 rifles and carbines every year, stopped getting major orders after production of the INSAS rifle stopped two years ago. These factories are the only ones in the country that can manufacture gun barrels using imported barrel-making machines, each costing Rs 40 crore.

Call for R&D
Basic firearms technology has changed little in close to a century, which explains the continued utility of the vintage AK-47. Waiting around the corner are breakthrough technologies that could transform a soldier’s basic weapon. These include caseless ammunition cartridges encased in lightweight polymers instead of brass, developing new intermediate calibre rounds like the 6.8 mm (which could solve the army’s dilemma of choosing between a lighter 5.56 and heavier 7.62 mm round) and day-and-night weapon-aiming sights that allow for dramatically improved accuracies. Defence analyst Rear Admiral Sudarshan Y. Shrikhande (retired) says future-proofing the armed forces can come only with substantial R&D by both the army and industry. No such investments are being made. This technology gap in the years ahead means the inevitable, more imports.
“Aatmanirbhar Bharat should not just be about buying an Indian weapon, it should be about future-proofing the army to ensure that they don’t look anywhere else for the next 50 years. That can only happen by investing in Indian industry,” says Vivek Krishnan, CEO of SSS Defence, the only private sector firm with its own range of sniper rifles, carbines and assault rifles. In the absence of such hand-holding efforts, arms imports will continue to remain the attractive option well into the future.
 

Nilgiri

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X-posting from BR :ROFLMAO: (Credit to "thakur B"):

The whole INSAS replacement saga can.be summed up as under:

Army: We don't want INSAS
MoD: What do you want?
Army: Multi Caliber vaporware.
MoD: Were you able to find one?
Army: Nah, that was stupid.
MoD: Try this Mk1C thing. They finally fixed it.
Army: Yeah, it's alright, but I don't want 5.56.
MoD: Well, what do you want this time?
Army: 7.62 NATO Sturmgewehr
MoD: I think OFB came up with something in 6.months, it's a bit rough around the edges, try it out?
Army: Sure, but lemme buy some stuff on emergency, while I send everyone on a wild goose chase for an affordable 7.62 NATO sturmgewehr.
MoD: I don't think you are serious, but ok, do it.
Army: You know what, I am rethinking this whole 7.62 NATO rifle thing, they are kind of expensive, I want something affordable for non front line troops.
MoD: How about an overpriced AK in a caliber you never standardised on?
Army: Perffick.


@Milspec @Zapper @Paro et al.
 

crixus

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Army to equip all infantry battalions, not just frontline troops, with US Sig Sauer rifles​

At least 2 companies — about 100 soldiers each — in all infantry battalions are being given Sig 716, irrespective of whether they are in the field or at peace stations.​

SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP 15 March, 2021 11:53 am IST


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An Indian Army soldier with the Sig 716 rifle | Photo: Snehesh Alex Philip | ThePrint
An Indian Army soldier with the Sig 716 rifle | Photo: Snehesh Alex Philip | ThePrint
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Chaubatia (Uttarakhand): With the much awaited deal for AK 203 getting delayed, the Army is equipping its over 400 infantry battalions with the American Sig Sauer assault rifles, procured under fast-tracked process (FTP), as against the original plan to arm only its frontline troops with the latest weapon.
The Army had initially bought the Sig 716 G2 Patrol assault/battlefield rifles, chambered for the 7.62×51 mm rounds, in 2019 under FTP for frontline soldiers — posted at the borders and involved in counter-terrorism and counter-insurgency operations.


However, all infantry battalions are now getting equipped with the American rifles, sources in the defence establishment said.
This will replace some of the obsolete Indian Small Arms System (INSAS) 5.56×45 mm rifles in use for over two decades.
According to the plan, at least two companies (about 100 soldiers each) in all the infantry battalions are being given the Sig 716 — irrespective of whether they are in the field or at peace stations.



The quantity will, however, differ with some of the battalions getting more weapons and the others.
Each infantry battalion of the Army has four companies, commonly referred to as the Alfa, Bravo, Charlie and Delta companies.

However, certain battalions have their own unique names. For example, 1 Mahar as the Whiskey, X Ray, Yankee and Zulu company. 13 Kumaon does not have a Charlie company but is called Rezang La company in honour of the fallen soldiers of C company.


ThePrint had in December 2020 reported that while the initial lot of the modern assault rifles from the US was sent to those guarding the Line of Control with Pakistan and for counter-terrorism operations in Kashmir, troops at the LAC in the northern sector in Ladakh are also being equipped with it now.
In December, the Defence Acquisition Council had accorded approval for the procurement of additional 72,400 Sig 716 rifles for approximately Rs 780 crore. This was also done under FTP and is part of the option clause of the original deal signed in 2019.


Also read: From next week, troops at LoC and LAC to get new & more lethal Israeli Light Machine Guns


Shoot to kill

The Sig 716 rifles are more accurate and lethal than the INSAS because it has a higher caliber — 7.62 mm as against 5.56 mm.

It was in the 1980s that the Indian Army sought a lighter assault rifle chambered to fire the 5.56×45 mm cartridge. It was meant to provide relief to the Indian soldiers who fought the Siachen battle and the LTTE in Sri Lanka with the 5.1 kg Ishapore 7.62×51 mm rifle, but the INSAS has faced constant issues since its introduction in 1998.
At that time, the Army’s logic was that the rifle should injure an enemy soldier. This meant at least 2-3 other soldiers will be required to take away the injured soldier. However, with warfare tactics changing and the Army getting involved in counter-terrorism and counter-insurgency operations too, the force wanted a high caliber weapon that is a “shoot to kill system”.

SiG 716 an instant hit with soldiers

Weighing just 3.82 kg without the magazine, the American rifles were welcomed by the infantry soldiers that ThePrint spoke to.
They explained the rifle has an effective kill range of 600 metres and with greater accuracy than that of the INSAS.
With corking from behind than the side, which is the case in most of the small arms, the rifle becomes ambidextrous.
Even though the butt of the rifle is not collapsible, it comes with six adjustable positions, and hence comes handy in operations.
While the 2019 order for the Sig rifles included a limited set of ammunition, the Army is now using the Ordnance Factory Board rounds meant for the SLR rifles of the late 1980s.
“The Sig 716 is good for operations at the border and also in CI/CT. With a shorter barrel than that of the INSAS, it is good for room intervention operation and for urban warfare,” an officer explained.

AK 203 to be the mainstay of Army

The formal process to replace the INSAS began over a decade ago, but never saw the light of the day. Among the many reasons was the fact that the Army changed specifications for the replacement twice.
It first wanted a dual-caliber rifle which could shoot two types of cartridges — the AK-47 bullet and the INSAS bullet, much to the dismay of every small arms manufacturer in the world. The Army eventually scrapped the process and then demanded a modified INSAS.
However, in 2018, India and Russia announced a deal to jointly manufacture the AK 103, which was then upgraded to AK 203.
On 3 March 2019, Prime Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated an Indo-Russian joint venture, under which AK-203 will be manufactured at the Korwa Ordnance Factory in Uttar Pradesh’s Amethi district.
However, cost negotiations for the over 6 lakh rifles got stuck. This forces the Army to go in for emergency procurement of the SiG 716 rifles in 2019 and again in 2020.
Under the deal, the first 20,000 AK 203 rifles, which will be the mainstay of the armed forces for years to come, will be imported from Russia at a cost of about $1,100 (or Rs 80,000) a piece, depending on the conversion rate.
(Edited by Sanghamitra Mazumdar)

 

crixus

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T

Turko

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We have one of the most stupid planners in India , they bought the same product three times most probably at 3 three different rates
@UkroTurk 🚬 which rifle your army uses?
My army? Unfortunately i haven't got an army.

Given USSR legacy , Ukranian Army uses AK-74s
Turkish army uses domestic made HK G3 and Hk416-417 clones.

 

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